Tea dose vs T&W dose

[Maxxx]

I've found that if I switch from T&W to tea for a few days, when I go back to T&W the effects are much stronger and last longer. It's almost like a mini-tolerance break even though I use the same daily amount to make tea.

Has anyone else noticed this?

[BallzDeep9]

I'd bet there is very little cross-over. Tea Drinkers make their tea, and drink it hot or cold, and rarely do T+W

Most interesting to me .. are the debates around 1- Dirty kratom, 2- Lab testing, 3- Extract making, 4- Freezing & Red Bubble.

I'll suggest .. We should NOT be "Tossing & Washing" raw kratom powder in 2019, with monkey crap from Kapuas River... yes, I know that probably MOST are still doing the ol' T+W. There IS a pretty strong movement, to demand Lab Testing and clean rooms, etc, and say it's all the vendors fault and we want Clean Kratom!! These folks yapping about Labs, should simply pour boiling water on their kratom. Problem solved. Brew Tea!

Then - you DO hear claims that Tea isn't as strong as raw powder... No, probably not, IF you're filtering ALL the dirt -VS- eating the dirt.. Sludge does contain "some" alkaloids in there .. Can you tell, I do filter my sludge. I just... add 20% MORE then. Kratom is cheap!

[Maxxx]

I'd bet there is very little cross-over. Tea Drinkers make their tea, and drink it hot or cold, and rarely do T+W

Most interesting to me .. are the debates around 1- Dirty kratom, 2- Lab testing, 3- Extract making, 4- Freezing & Red Bubble.

I'll suggest .. We should NOT be "Tossing & Washing" raw kratom powder in 2019, with monkey crap from Kapuas River... yes, I know that probably MOST are still doing the ol' T+W. There IS a pretty strong movement, to demand Lab Testing and clean rooms, etc, and say it's all the vendors fault and we want Clean Kratom!! These folks yapping about Labs, should simply pour boiling water on their kratom. Problem solved. Brew Tea!

Then - you DO hear claims that Tea isn't as strong as raw powder... No, probably not, IF you're filtering ALL the dirt -VS- eating the dirt.. Sludge does contain "some" alkaloids in there .. Can you tell, I do filter my sludge. I just... add 20% MORE then. Kratom is cheap!

I'm sure you're right, but I love the effects from T&W, so I don't mind a little monkey poop. lol. I'm sure the first time it makes me sick I'll change my tune, but until then T&W is my go to method. I suppose pouring boiling water over the powder and drinking it all would be smarter, but I'm not too worried about it right now.

Adding 20% when making tea is interesting... The reason I asked the question is because when I notice my daily dose creeping up from 5g or 6g a day to 9g or 10g, I'll switch to tea for a few days and it seems to drop back down. But if I'm using 6g to make tea, and then do an additional 3g T&W at night, am I still doing 9g a day, even though the effects aren't the same?

I'm probably over thinking this, but figured I'd throw it out to see if anyone else has an opinion.

[WotAnAtti2d]

This is one of my macros:

This is one of the reasons I love tea!

Did you know that by boiling water that kratom has been added to, it kills a multitude of germs? After that, a sustained heat will ensure that happens.

e Coli dies at 160° F
Salmonella dies at 167° F at a sustained heat of 10 minutes
Other non-specialized bacteria die at 140° F
Influenza is deactivated anywhere from 165° F to 212° F (boiling)

[HappyHulu]

Love my tea. Started out with T & W, tried drinking sludge in hot water, and within a week my stomach was all messed up. Been making tea (with CL or powder) for over 2 years now. Still only dose 1.5 to 2.00 grams, once a day (with breaks). Depending upon the leaf, can last anywhere from 2 to 6 hours, with no stomach issues. You just have to find what works for YOU, and always have to respect the leaf. Sounds like you found it.

[beathappening]

We should NOT be "Tossing & Washing" raw kratom powder in 2019, with monkey crap from Kapuas River...

Yeah, but didn't you know monkey crap potentiates kratom?

[BrockLee]

e Coli dies at 160° F
Salmonella dies at 167° F at a sustained heat of 10 minutes
Other non-specialized bacteria die at 140° F
Influenza is deactivated anywhere from 165° F to 212° F (boiling)

WotAnAtti2d is the kratom tea expert.

This post reminds me that I need to get back to the healthier habit of drinking tea.

Here are two of WotAnAtti2d's tea recipes (taken from another thread) if anyone else is looking to keep using kratom while avoiding all the nasties.

Powder - https://imgur.com/a/1AXup
Crushed leaf - http://imgur.com/a/oMN6g

Thanks WotAnAtti2d!

[Maxxx]

Still only dose 1.5 to 2.00 grams, once a day (with breaks).

How much water do you use with 2g?

[WotAnAtti2d]

Thanks Brock, for the kind words!

@Maxxx, afaik, she uses the tea tutorial that I made, so that would be 4 1/2 cups of water for powder. Check out the tutorial.

[Maxxx]

Thanks Brock, for the kind words!

@Maxxx, afaik, she uses the tea tutorial that I made, so that would be 4 1/2 cups of water for powder. Check out the tutorial.

Thanks. I'll give 2g with 4.5 cups of water a shot. I've been using that much water, but with 5g of powder.

I've seen and tried your tutorials, and they were very helpful when I started making tea. Now I'm making it in an insta-pot, which also works great. I'll give your ratio a shot today. Thanks.

[HappyHulu]

@Maxxx, I've since tweaked my tea method.... I fill up a small soup pot with water and 2TBS of lime juice (about 2 cups of water), bring to almost a boil, add CL or powder. Lower the heat and make sure it's a rolling simmer exactly how Wot does in his tutorials. If you have an instant thermometer, it hovers around 209 - 210 (F) for me, but isn't necessary. I cook it uncovered for 45 minutes, because I want it to evaporate a bit. CL is much easier because I don't have to stand over it, stirring and watching temp, whereas powder I have to. After 45 minutes, I turn off heat, cover, and let sit for hours, until it's cooled off.

I make it in the morning, so I let it sit all day. If I'm home, I'll stir it a couple of times, but that's no big deal. When I'm ready to drink it, I'll heat it back up in the pot, stirring, (it takes only minutes). CL I just strain with a little strainer, but If I'm using powder, I'll strain it through my Aero Press (works wonders) hardly any gunk gets through, if any. It comes to about 1 or 1 1/2 cups. I like drinking it hot with raw honey and a little coconut oil. Also, sometimes I use the freezing method, but I've been lazy lately. Any questions, just ask. Good luck!

[brave777]

Do you guys finish all powder after pouring boiling water over it in a cup? I do that then mix it up for 10-20 sec then drink everything even sludge. not once had any side effects. I did try T and W and felt weird. Ever since been pouring hot or boiling water over my goods.

[Maxxx]

@Maxxx, I've since tweaked my tea method....

Thanks, HH. I keep tweaking my method, too. I've tried the stove top, and it works well, but lately I've been making tea in the Insta Pot, and I'll never go back. I brew mine on high pressure for 20min and let the pressure release naturally for another 20, and the tea comes out incredibly strong every time, and it's a lot less messy. You also don't have to do anything but put the powder and water in and let it do its thing. I've also found that not using citric acid makes the tea stronger. I know people swear by lemon juice, so maybe it's just me, but there's a noticeable difference when I just use water and powder.

My latest experiment was to do the freeze method the night before and then put the frozen bubble block in the Insta Pot along with a few cups of water and let it run, and so far this is the best way I've found. I froze 3g of White Maeng Da from Inland last night and used it to make tea this morning, and it came out thicker and darker and stronger than any tea I've made yet, so this might be my new way. The Insta Pot method prevents the water from boiling at 212F, so the powder gets a high temp/high pressure steep with very little mess or effort. Once it's done, I filter it into a pitcher with a couple ginger chews and let it cool. So far, this is my favorite way to make tea, but I'll keep experimenting. I'm making a batch of Yellow Vietnam now to see if I get the same thick, strong tea from a different strain. The freezing method seems to make the Insta Pot method even stronger.

[WotAnAtti2d]

I've been asked a lot about using citrus. So much, that I made a macro for a little metaphoric explanation:

Sure. Let's use a metaphor for my explanation...

Say, you and a buddy are going to your house. As you approach the door, you realize you don't have your keys. You look around the house, trying to find a way to get in. You figure that you can get in by breaking the glass pane on the back door. Your buddy says he'll go home and get something to take care of the glass. Meanwhile, you're sick of waiting, find a nice big rock, and smash the window out. You reach through, unlock the door, and you're in. Several minutes later, your buddy comes back with a hammer, but you don't need it.

Here are the metaphors - The house is the cell that holds all of the alkaloids. The glass pane is the cell wall. The rock is sustained heat. The hammer is citric acid/citrus. When you make tea, you're trying to break the cell wall open to get to the alkaloids in the cell. I use sustained heat to do that and obviously, it works. You want to know why I don't use citrus.

I want to get into the cell (house) through the cell wall (pane of glass), so I use the rock (sustained heat). My buddy brings a hammer (citric acid), but since the glass is already shattered, why would I need the hammer (citric acid)? Can I shatter the glass (cell wall) any more, since it's already been shattered? I believe that it's a cross between the placebo effect and herd mentality. It's like you have a group of 1,000 people. One hundred people really, really believe that adding the citrus will work. Their emphatic responses lead another hundred to believe it. Now you have 20% of the people, emphatically promoting the use of citrus. Most people don't challenge, they just follow. Why should they try anything else if you see all these people saying it works? How can that many people be wrong, right? Since the sustained heat already creates the desired effect(s), throwing citrus in will appear to work. If you have 100 people, emphatically saying that licking shoe polish will make kratom stronger, chances are some will actually try it.

[HappyHulu]

Thanks for the recipe, @Maxxx! Everyone loves their insta pot, whether it's cooking or making great tea, haha - I think I need to invest in one at some point. @brave777, yeah I've tried ingesting some of the cooked powder, not too long ago, and it still messes my stomach up... gives me a lot of pain. @WotAnAtti2d... I was waiting for the Wot-ism to show up. Btw, if it ain't broke, don't fix it... right? Sipping on some of your red Borneo, right now... feeling lovely.

[Maxxx]

I'm with you, Wot. Every time I've tried using citric acid, the tea has been weaker than when I don't. Not saying it doesn't work for some, but for me the best tea is just powder and water.

Insta Pot update. So, I made tea yesterday with 3g of yellow vietnam and 3 cups of water in the insta pot for 20 min high pressure, and let sit for 20 min to release the pressure before filtering it into a pitcher. The tea came out a dull orange, about the color of cantaloupe. Last night I froze another 3g of yellow vietnam in a little water, then today I put the frozen bubble dose in the insta pot with 3 cups of water and cooked it the exact same way, and it came out deep reddish brown*, and very thick and strong. While I'm not sold on lemon juice, freezing kratom actually has a noticeable effect.

*I tried to attach a pic of the tea I made today, but I must be doing something wrong.

[HappyHulu]

This plant is just so interesting, in that way. I've tried with and without lemon/lime juice, and the juice definitely gives me better effects. Agree with you, about the frozen method, though. Regarding pic, I tried to post one and had trouble, too - something about the size of the photo was too big.

[Maxxx]

This plant is just so interesting...

Yes it is... And no biggie about the pic. I just thought the color difference between frozen and not frozen was interesting.

Another Insta Pot update. I drank one cup of the Yellow Vietnam I made today, and now all I want to do is sleep, which is weird since that strain has never made me tired before. I might not freeze the powder before brewing in the future. I might be too much of a lightweight. lol.