Kratom with and without nicotine

[michaelconstipe]

Nicotine takes 24-48 hours to completely get out of system. After I quit the nicotine gum or vape I have noticed kratom's effects go from a 6/10 to a 1/10 in terms of strength. I also end up consuming twice as much kratom without nicotine. I believe this has to do with the antidepressant effects from nicotine, like what I've heard about all those soccer moms saying how Prozac enhances the therapeutic effects from kratom.

[beathappening]

I take both Prozac and nicotine, so I don't know what kratom is like without them. But I've never heard that prozac enhances kratom in any way, that's interesting. That seems like something that could easily be placebo, but maybe those moms are on to something

[michaelconstipe]

I remember people saying on Reddit they cycle off their antidepressants and kratom or some just use both constantly. To rotate antidepressants with kratom or not, such a first world problem! I wonder if depression isn't made worse by seeing it as something that needs to be covered up with a pill or some other biochemical delivery substrate. Same deal with nicotine. "I need my nicotine with my kratom" mantra becomes self-reinforcing.

[mivanqua]

I remember people saying on Reddit they cycle off their antidepressants and kratom or some just use both constantly. To rotate antidepressants with kratom or not, such a first world problem! I wonder if depression isn't made worse by seeing it as something that needs to be covered up with a pill or some other biochemical delivery substrate. Same deal with nicotine. "I need my nicotine with my kratom" mantra becomes self-reinforcing.

From "first world problem" to "primate problems" in 1 min. or less. I'm fairly certain depression is just a fact of life for ALL life forms with the pleasure of having feelings. All days can't be good days. Its PHARMAs thing promoting the "pill for this, pill for that" mentality.

[beathappening]

somewhat OT:
Depression is a well documented mental illness. "Big pharma" might come in bad faith, but that doesn't mean that some medications aren't helpful to some people. Are you saying the whole fields of psychiatry and psychology are fake? That the DSM V is a worldwide conspiracy to sell drugs? Thousands of double blind drug studies, those aren't legitimate? Lucky for you, you don't have to worry about it, but what you're saying is offensive to those that suffer from it. Do you know anyone that does? Any one that has killed themselves or tried? I'm guessing that if you did, for example a family member, maybe you would look at it differently.

I for one have always been open about my struggles in depression and anxiety, and while I agree it is overprescribed, and that a lot of people say "depressed" when they really mean "sad" (because they don't know or can't tell the difference), it is a real thing. and there are many more illnesses that are much more severe. "Fairly certain" isn't really a scientific measurement...there are people that dedicate their entire lives to the study and treatment of mental illness (doctors), I will take their word over "fairly certain".

Aside from that, my medication does make a noticeable difference...I can't cycle on and off it, when I don't take it there's a major change. I have tried to taper off a few times, or change medications-not pretty. And kratom in conjunction with it, I feel downright normal sometimes. The people who can cycle off antidepressants, maybe they don't need them in the first place. But let's not classify everyone with "depression" as a monolith. Ok?

You're entitled to your opinion, not trying to bite off your head, but I have to deal with those kind of statements all the time, that it isn't "real", it's all made up, just get out there and pull yourself up by your bootstraps, etc etc. Mental illness is a real thing.

/rant

[michaelconstipe]

somewhat OT:
Depression is a well documented mental illness. "Big pharma" might come in bad faith, but that doesn't mean that some medications aren't helpful to some people. Are you saying the whole fields of psychiatry and psychology are fake? That the DSM V is a worldwide conspiracy to sell drugs? Thousands of double blind drug studies, those aren't legitimate? Lucky for you, you don't have to worry about it, but what you're saying is offensive to those that suffer from it. Do you know anyone that does? Any one that has killed themselves or tried? I'm guessing that if you did, for example a family member, maybe you would look at it differently.

I for one have always been open about my struggles in depression and anxiety, and while I agree it is overprescribed, and that a lot of people say "depressed" when they really mean "sad" (because they don't know or can't tell the difference), it is a real thing. and there are many more illnesses that are much more severe. "Fairly certain" isn't really a scientific measurement...there are people that dedicate their entire lives to the study and treatment of mental illness (doctors), I will take their word over "fairly certain".

Aside from that, my medication does make a noticeable difference...I can't cycle on and off it, when I don't take it there's a major change. I have tried to taper off a few times, or change medications-not pretty. And kratom in conjunction with it, I feel downright normal sometimes. The people who can cycle off antidepressants, maybe they don't need them in the first place. But let's not classify everyone with "depression" as a monolith. Ok?

You're entitled to your opinion, not trying to bite off your head, but I have to deal with those kind of statements all the time, that it isn't "real", it's all made up, just get out there and pull yourself up by your bootstraps, etc etc. Mental illness is a real thing.

/rant

Rest assured many of us who speak out against the dangers and demons of psychiatry have a history of "mental illness". Devoted Kratomite Carpo has mentioned The Prozac Delusion and serotonin myth several times (There is no chemical imbalance) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeN90llbSCg The military-industrial complex uses the history of "depression" / antidepressants to strip mildly deviant young men of their second amendment rights and ability to serve, eerily similar to how the military-industrial complex and psychiatry were quite recently behind and embracing the "God hates fags" biblical mandate vis-a-vis "Don't ask don't tell" and other totalitarian policies with psychiatry and the state power apparatus not much different in the land of the free to the way psychiatry was a tool of the Soviets to oppress and repress political enemies. If you read up on the placebo theory and sparse evidence for biochemical imbalance theory you would feel less certain of HOW your medication makes a noticeable difference. We are not doubting that medication has some effects, but the effects are unknown by science and should be seen in a more gestalt sense of wellness rather than feigning certainty with fake science, which the FDA has done with such as the serotonin hypothesis.