Turmeric

[Lnr9400]

I know turmeric is suppose to enhance kratom, but is it really worth the trouble? I happened upon some at dollar tree the other day so I grabbed a box to try since it's only a buck. It's suppose to be used with pepper I think, will regular black pepper from kitchen work? If anyone with experience with it could fill me in on dosage and how effective this is, thanks!

[pray4peace4]

My son & I both tried it & it didn't provide any noticeable difference in kratom effects. But it is fairly cheap & may help you. I find tumeric to be really obnoxious stuff.

[fusedflora]

It's great, but timing it is everything. There's a lot of bad information on when to take it.

We often label it as a potentiator. It has effects to reset receptors, but when taken with/before kratom, it can also effect your burn negatively. Turmeric is often used with curcumin to further activate the turmeric. Together they are a great antioxidant. Do you know what your body needs to convert mitra to 7HOM (the more stronger alkaloid of the two)? It needs free radical oxygens (what antioxidants get rid of). Additionally, the receptor binding that the turmeric can relief, also can remove the binding effect that kratom has. So while it will reduce some tolerance, it will also block some of the effects, and negatively affect the body's ability to convert mitra to 7HOM (again lots of variables to get net gain). This is more a tolerance reducer, and should not really be taken near a dose, not really a potentiator, yet it is usually labeled as such.

I would advise to use turmeric between doses, preferably the ones with the biggest time gap. This allows for the reset without blocking the effects or reducing 7HOM conversion (net gain).

[Kratatomic]

It has effects to reset receptors, but when taken with/before kratom, it can also effect your burn negatively.

Oh no! I’m assuming this also applies to the Curcumin & Piperne supplement I’ve been taking? Been taking alongside kratom in the morning, haha.

[vesku88]

It's great, but timing it is everything. There's a lot of bad information on when to take it.

We often label it as a potentiator. It has effects to reset receptors, but when taken with/before kratom, it can also effect your burn negatively. Turmeric is often used with curcumin to further activate the turmeric. Together they are a great antioxidant. Do you know what your body needs to convert mitra to 7HOM (the more stronger alkaloid of the two)? It needs free radical oxygens (what antioxidants get rid of). Additionally, the receptor binding that the turmeric can relief, also can remove the binding effect that kratom has. So while it will reduce some tolerance, it will also block some of the effects, and negatively affect the body's ability to convert mitra to 7HOM (again lots of variables to get net gain). This is more a tolerance reducer, and should not really be taken near a dose, not really a potentiator, yet it is usually labeled as such.

I would advise to use turmeric between doses, preferably the ones with the biggest time gap. This allows for the reset without blocking the effects or reducing 7HOM conversion (net gain).

Interesting. First I'm hearing of taking it in between doses

[TechNRK]

It's great, but timing it is everything. There's a lot of bad information on when to take it.

We often label it as a potentiator. It has effects to reset receptors, but when taken with/before kratom, it can also effect your burn negatively. Turmeric is often used with curcumin to further activate the turmeric. Together they are a great antioxidant. Do you know what your body needs to convert mitra to 7HOM (the more stronger alkaloid of the two)? It needs free radical oxygens (what antioxidants get rid of). Additionally, the receptor binding that the turmeric can relief, also can remove the binding effect that kratom has. So while it will reduce some tolerance, it will also block some of the effects, and negatively affect the body's ability to convert mitra to 7HOM (again lots of variables to get net gain). This is more a tolerance reducer, and should not really be taken near a dose, not really a potentiator, yet it is usually labeled as such.

I would advise to use turmeric between doses, preferably the ones with the biggest time gap. This allows for the reset without blocking the effects or reducing 7HOM conversion (net gain).

Interesting info thanks.

[onespeedstop]

I've tried it a few times, and ultimately, I can't say it makes much difference. The best results I got were to take 2 or 3 caps of it about 30-60 minutes before the kratom. *If* anything, it seemed to help it hit a little stronger, but that might have just been a psychosomatic/placebo effect. At any rate, it doesn't seem to be anything worth worrying about in my limited experience. In other words - give it a shot, but don't expect much ha-ha.

[Kratatomic]

It has effects to reset receptors, but when taken with/before kratom, it can also effect your burn negatively.

Oh no! I’m assuming this also applies to the Curcumin & Piperne supplement I’ve been taking? Been taking alongside kratom in the morning, haha.

Just to clarify, I wasn’t taking the curcumin with kratom in mind. I was unaware of any relationship. This thread caught my attention because I only started taking the curcumin again recently. My morning burns (taken within minutes of the curcumin) have seemed a bit dulled lately. These have generally been the best burn of the day for me. The second burn of the day has taken up that role. What FF is saying makes sense here...buuut, I have been using nothing but new leaf from new vendors during this same time period coincidentally, Haha variables!!!!, so just assumed that was the culprit. Hmmmm, this is so interesting, thanks for posting this FF, I’m going to abstain from the curcumin for a couple days and see how it goes.

[RubberToes]

I take Tumeric, Ginger with Bioperine (Nature's Nutrition off Amazon) after lunch each day as it helps soothe aches and pains and i feel it is good for you. I have not noticed it affecting my kratom, definitely will notice if i take my kratom too close to any meal, very little effects and seems a waste. Contrary though, if i have a light breakfast 20 minutes after my first burn, sometimes better effects.
I also mix tumeric and ginger that i buy in bulk, add a little Psyllium Husk and take that for five days, then a few days off, really helps the digestion, also don't feel that affects my kratom

[Lnr9400]

It's great, but timing it is everything. There's a lot of bad information on when to take it.

We often label it as a potentiator. It has effects to reset receptors, but when taken with/before kratom, it can also effect your burn negatively. Turmeric is often used with curcumin to further activate the turmeric. Together they are a great antioxidant. Do you know what your body needs to convert mitra to 7HOM (the more stronger alkaloid of the two)? It needs free radical oxygens (what antioxidants get rid of). Additionally, the receptor binding that the turmeric can relief, also can remove the binding effect that kratom has. So while it will reduce some tolerance, it will also block some of the effects, and negatively affect the body's ability to convert mitra to 7HOM (again lots of variables to get net gain). This is more a tolerance reducer, and should not really be taken near a dose, not really a potentiator, yet it is usually labeled as such.

I would advise to use turmeric between doses, preferably the ones with the biggest time gap. This allows for the reset without blocking the effects or reducing 7HOM conversion (net gain).

Interesting, I knew it was suppose to reduce tolerance but had no idea it could also block the effects. I heard of it seeing some folks on reddit swear by it potentiating their burns awhile back, but wasn't sure the exact procedure for taking it. I thought black pepper was necessary for activating it somehow though?

[vesku88]

I'm still fairly certain that turmeric curcumin def does potentiate the effects

[fusedflora]

I'm still fairly certain that turmeric curcumin def does potentiate the effects

For those that want the source, here it is. Specifically, look for the portions that read that turmeric in curcumin studies, that they inhibit synthesis of the metabolites in the liver, as the body processes mitragynine, it produces 7ohm and/or mitragynine pseudoindoxyl. Both of these are much more potent than mitragynine, so one would want their body to produce these as much as possible for greater effects.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6598159/

Figure 3 shows how important CYP3A4 plays in the role to making mitra more potent

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2574793/

This is but one, but there's numerous studies showing that turmeric and curcumin inhibit CYP3A4, thus not potentiating.

Again, yes it will assist to reset receptors, but it also inhibits the body's ability to produce certain enzymes in the liver.

Potentiating is usually the thing I get the most questions about and want to help folks understand. There's a number of things that we label as potentiating, but I think we often label tolerance reducers and bioavailability in this category as well. This is a huge problem, as I see many folks timing things in a bad way, and wonder why they have to increase their dose instead of decrease. It's important to distinguish these to continue to get the desired relief with the least amount of kratom.

Potentiating - makes the kratom (immediate dose) have more pronounced effects by interacting with the mitra or 7HOM directly (usually in the form of increased mitra conversion to 7ohm or mitrapseudo). I would say potentiating strictly refers to helping the body, specifically the liver, to convert into metabolites.

Reducing Tolerance - makes the kratom (next dose) have a more pronounced effects by relieving/reseting receptors/antagonists.

Bioavailability - makes the kratom have more pronounced effects by making the mitra/7HOM more bioavailable for the body to absorb.

These are three very different effects to "potentiate." In saying, each thing you do for the effect has a good timing associated with it to get the best results. I'm less concerned about definitions, but more interested in making sure folks get the best burns possible.

Take for instance citric acid. I see a lot of folks claiming to mix this with the kratom powder to make the mitra more potent and label it as a potentiating. When the kratom is steeped in the citric, yes, some of the plant matter decomposes faster, but realistically, this is the same as the effect of your stomach acid (think acid/base) and will also bind with some of the mitra, forming weaker alkaloids (acid/base reaction). Depending on powder grind, time steeped, temperature, and strength of citrus, the plant matter break down could beat out the alkaloid bindings, but there's a lot of variables to consider to get this into a sweet spot (difficult to get consistent net gain). In this description and use, we should label as bioavailability, not necessarily potentiating as it could actually negatively affect the burn if not timed correctly.

One might ask, "Well what about the red bubble....?" I'd tell you the whole goal for red bubble isn't to potentiate, but to remove the plant matter completely so the alkaloids are more bioavailable. During the process, yes some alkaloids bind to the acidity, but for the most part the freezing/boiling and steeping together makes the bioavailability outweigh the benefit of small amount of lost alkaloids.

If using citrus, I'd just drink it 30 min - 1 hour before the dose to put your body in a more alkaline state, allowing it to absorb more alkaloids, as your body processes citrus as alkaline. This actually is potentiating as the body would now be more alkaline and the perceived effects of more alkaloids would be greater. The liver is better able to process in an alkaline state. This also would result in a consistent net benefit, rather than the above earlier example. If doing this with the red bubble, you'd really be on to something.

Much of what folks claim as "potentiators" will fall into one of the three categories above, but one can't solely look at the effects of just the mu, kappa, and delta opioid receptors and effects, you have to look at the whole effect on the body.

[Kratatomic]

I love this! Thanks so much for sharing FF. I skimmed those links enough to know this is a must read, and have them bookmarked for later tonight. I’m already convinced though, that damn curcumin & piperine was dulling my morning burns. This morning has been bright & sunny inside and out!

(What’s so funny about all this is that I’ve been burning mostly Fused Flora leaf this whole time! Which has been excellent, BTW. Will now need to revisit those past morning burns I ruined with my ignorance, haha. Something beautiful about you helping me, and others, get the most out of your leaf, and all leaf. Thanks man.)

[flybye99928]

wow thanks for sharing, ff! much appreciated

[guitartodd77]

Excellent post Fusedflora. Thank you!

Which Cat's claw supplement type do you recommend? The Chinese Gou Teng "cats claw" or the South America Cat's Claw? I'm getting mixed recommendations.