Stem & vein taper guide?

[beathappening]

I noticed that Ballz has a guide for agmatine tapering. Is there one specifically for stem & vein?

I didn't find one when I searched, just a few sentences here and there. I was hoping to find a chart or step by step thing, just to make it easy. I plan on doing this to taper my dose down to a more manageable level. but I'd like to have some on hand for a potential ban, so I can quit completely if such a thing happens.

[whiffypants]

There's a lot more information on Reddit, if you can weed through it all. Here's a conversation with a number of approaches (note especially how several commenters advise a big jump down to start and then lowering by smaller increments; I've heard that a lot), and there are more available through the search bar.

But like agmatine, I think you just have to try it for yourself first -- replacing part or all of your dose with S&V -- to see how it hits you in particular. Because kratom dosing is so wildly different for everyone who takes it, it's not a stretch to assume that tapering and quitting are as well. If I see anything more I'll let you know; I remember running into a few tapering plans when I was researching the FAQ but I'll have to look and see if I noted that information. In the meantime, good luck!

[beathappening]

Okay, thanks. I did see some stuff on reddit, but I guess no one has actually hammered out a solid system/regimen that works well and everyone could go by. You know, like the Thomas recipe for withdrawal.
Maybe I'll give it a go?
I am going to try s&v pretty soon, pick up a good quantity and toy with it. I'm not ready to resort to agmatine yet.

[whiffypants]

I'm trying agmatine myself right now. Whether or not it will work to decrease tolerance I don't know yet, but I'm having some pretty nasty side effects (it seems to be worsening a couple of existing conditions) so I may never find out. Friday will be a full week; if I make it that far I'll let y'all know. And I'm only taking 500 g a day, which is the minimum anyway.

Definitely get some S&V and try it -- it -can't- be worse than this.

[beathappening]

I've held off from trying agmatine, because I've read numerous reports of it dulling down the good effects (euphoria for one) of kratom, but others say it's a great potentiator. I just don't want to gamble and potentially waste $20 in trying it at this point. I'd rather spend that on a big bag of s&v, even if it doesn't work as desired, there's still some kind of use for it.

[DirtyRadish]

So I've started collecting some S&V and m. Hirsuta and Javanica. Ive found a couple reasonable sources, and some crazy s&v. I need to lower my tolerance and dose its krept up there pretty big. In the same boat trying to figure out a good regimen. Curious to see what you come up with hey. Ill let you know if i have any exciting findings.

[BallzDeep9]

I've read numerous reports of it dulling down the good effects ( euphoria )...

yeah Agmatine does have a bad rep there. Those like me, who rely on kratom for mood support are very reluctant to try it..

I finally jumped in and it's not that bad. It's definitely not like ALL "good effects" are gone.. It does do "something" however and I guess I'd agree with others, who claim it seems to boost pain relief a bit, while changing the euphoria a bit.

Lets keep an eye on the prize here: Tolerance. Lowering or re-setting tolerance to kratom... Getting better results, from a lower dose. Getting more bang for the buck. So... tapering down is the goal. Whether using Agmatine to help that, or use Stem & Vein to help.. the goal is to taper down. And DO that with very little discomfort. Have a plan and use whatever helps .. I use agmatine, S&V, also phenibut also tylenol and sleep aids. Whatever helps get U through your Five Day Plan.. or 7-day, 10-day, etc

Right now Herbal RVA has 2 flavors of Stem & Vein.. Precious Mitre's S&V is known for high quality, right now stock is low. They do have White S&V today. PM has a big following, when they re-stock it goes fast..

[whiffypants]

yeah Agmatine does have a bad rep there. Those like me, who rely on kratom for mood support are very reluctant to try it..

I finally jumped in and it's not that bad. It's definitely not like ALL "good effects" are gone.. It does do "something" however and I guess I'd agree with others, who claim it seems to boost pain relief a bit, while changing the euphoria a bit.

As far as the kratom goes, you're right, it's not horrible -- I still got pain relief, and some of the sedating/relaxing effects. And it did lower my tolerance somewhat; it probably would have lowered it more had I done a full course at a higher dosage than I used. I could easily live with that, if not for the other effects I experienced while on it.

I started with 500mg (a half a gram) of agmatine with my night dose of kratom, expecting to add another 500mg agmatine to my day dose of kratom, but never got that far. I just felt physically shitty on agmatine the whole time I was taking it, and that didn't change whether I took kratom with it or not. So I stuck with just the 500mg at night, with or without my nighttime dose of kratom. (Sometimes I miss a kratom dose anyway; if I'm not in pain I often won't remember to do it, but I took the agmatine regardless.)

For myself, with agmatine I got the pain relief and didn't need as much kratom in the end, but like I said I haven't felt well since I started it and it wreaked havoc with my digestion, making my usually mild and well-controlled gastroparesis much, MUCH worse. It got to where I couldn't digest even a salad, or anything but starch. Uggh. I finally stopped it six days in: I couldn't bring myself to take it last night and I'm -already- feeling better than I have in a week.

But it WAS effective for bringing my kratom tolerance down: credit where credit is due. I didn't have much of a tolerance issue with kratom anyway, other than I noticed my doses creeping up and wanted to do something about it before they crept up more. Next time I'll just take a week off kratom instead, or try some S&V.

I should note that because I'd read up on agmatine, I already knew better than to waste good leaf on it. I dragged out my old Gaia Super Green Malay to use with it, and am glad I did. On agmatine my shittiest leaf and my best leaf were about the same, no lie. But I can't wait for it to wear off so I can try the whites I just got from K-OG. I miss that mood lift!!!

MANY THANKS to Labdog03 for the agmatine sample -- you just saved me $20, man.