Wobbles: When Lowering Dose Renders Batch Ineffective

[SpeciosaLife]

Curious if it’s just me, but I’m coming across more and more batches that fall into mild/moderate strength, yet wobble inducing territory.

A couple of questions, and interested in anecdotal (or links) experience.

1) Could it be alkaloid ratio (or prevelance of one) that is wobble inducing, as opposed to a side effect of dosage amount?

2) Dose anyone else encounter wobbles at relatively low (<3g) doses of mild to moderate strength kratom? This is stuff that would be completely ineffective at lower doseage.

Lastly, for old timers that were around when you could discuss vendors and batches freely, was there ever consensus around x batch, or x vendor causing wobbles? I’m curious if it is always a factor of personal chemistry, or if community consensus would indicate something ‘unbalanced’ in a particular batch.

[whiffypants]

Dang, that's a great question. I hope you get some replies, because I'd like to know too.

[beathappening]

Just a few observations..
I get the wobbles after taking multiple doses on top of each other too soon, or just taking way too much at once. It has a cumulative effect. So say normally I take 20 grams in a day, 7 in the morning and 13 in the evening. If I add an extra few grams to either dose, I'll wobble. And once I start the wobbles, even if I wait the normal time to my next dose, I'll go back into wobbles as soon as I dose next. I have to "reset" and go a good 16 hours without dosing, and get decent sleep, so I get back to baseline. It's like the wobbles have their own timer that lags behind the other effects. The noticeable effects may be gone but your wobble level is still elevated and descends at a slower rate. If that makes any sense at all.

I don't get the wobbles with small doses (even more potent stuff) but I have gotten them without getting the euphoric effects.... I attribute both to my high tolerance, especially when I've already dosed twice that day. I may get them when adjusting to a new vendor, not always. I'm not sure I've ever had "unbalanced" leaf, if it exists; it seems like anytime someone gets a "bad" batch, there's always plenty of people asking to send it to them. What doesn't work for you will work for someone. Not saying there isn't garbage out there, though.

Just my experience, hopefully something in there was on topic.

[whiffypants]

The noticeable effects may be gone but your wobble level is still elevated and descends at a slower rate. If that makes any sense at all.

Yeah, it absolutely does, 100%. The -why- has to do with decreasing serum levels of the various components: just because the kratom has worn off enough not to be psychoactive anymore doesn't mean your serum levels of the various alkaloids are at zero, or even low.

The rate at which this would happen would be different for everyone just because we have different livers and kidneys and clearance rates, but as a general principle it holds true for anything you take, even aspirin.

Just because you can't feel it anymore doesn't mean it's no longer there, and since we don't know which alkaloids produce analgesia and which produce "wobble" symptoms, we can't even say they clear the body at the same rate.

[SpeciosaLife]

Beat, Whiffy-
Thanks for the additional color. I too have gotten the wobbles without any euphoria or analgesia, and it does seem to take a 24hour break to reset. It makes sense that different alkaloids have different half lives, and that dosing frequency could result in a ‘build up’ of the offending alkaloids.

[beathappening]

Also, my kratom takes over an hour to kick in, but if I get wobbles they happen within 30-45 minutes of ingestion. Weird. Seems that certain alkaloids have a quicker onset.

[herbalhippie]

I have somehow managed to avoid the wobbles. The closest I've got was a little bit of this weird eye vibration once. And that was from a gram or less. I can't even remember what strain it was, something I got recently.

[jabro70]

I’ve often heard that the “Bali” strains are the most wobble-prone. And that’s Balis in general, not specific to any vendor. I kinda take that with a grain of salt though - I mean how similar is Vendor “A’s” Bali to Vendor “B’s”? Pretty sure neither of them actually came from Bali. They just have a certain general effect.
There have been specific strains that when I read reviews for the strain either on the vendor’s website or Reddit or here, there would be several people complaining that the strain was quick to give the wobbles. A certain “Green Hulu” batch from RVA comes to mind. I had that same batch and it never really did anything for me - good or bad. I think it’s probably the individual’s sensitivity to certain alkaloids (or combinations of alkaloids) that bring them on. I personally have never had the “wobbles” as I’ve seen them described. I have definitely overdone it before - especially when redosing with a potent strain that just didn’t give me the effects i was expecting on the first dose. That nausea and dissociative feeling is no fun.