Behind The Scenes Of The Kratom Industry

Post by **ModestMark90** » Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:16 am

mivanqua wrote:
ModestMark90 wrote:Never knew or even thought about any of this in my years of kratom use. Seriously eye opening information here. I’m now extremely skeptical of purchasing any kratom at all, just so I don’t feel duped at a minimum.
What does any of this REALLY matter? I mean, I LOVE this series of posts and Gumby seems like a real stand up guy and very intelligent. ESPECIALLY to his credit, he won't even sell kratom to his testers OR people on this forum and I think that has more to do with credibility that the "bulk seller" reason and that's admirable. And by the way, I've tried his kratom as a potential tester that fucked up, and it's some of the best EVER. I digress....
What DOES this all matter? Even WITH all of this "occult kratom knowledge," isn't the important thing that it works for you? He's stated a couple of times at least that vendors aren't always complicit in this scam, and when they are, they don't know it. Some vendors are sketchy. That's true. But most, methinks, do their best. Just remember why you take kratom. What if you found out that even Gumby is lying and all kratom is actually grown in Newfoundland. Would you care or just say "OK?" Besides, kraton is also very misunderstood in general. Even by those of us that are regular users. I would like to think that it's more misunderstanding than disinformation. I'm sure even Harry of Kratom OG is duped on at least one of his strains. Has to be! That can't ALL be correct and factual. Not with this much at play and him being literally on the other side of the world. But he's not LYING either. He's telling you what they are telling him. No more, no less.
It is what it is.

I understand what you’re saying. That was my initial reaction as well. I was reading with my roommate and I said that I’m sure it won’t amount to anything other than be aware of whom you’re purchasing from. That being said, even in this community, you’re more than likely going to purchase “bunk” from time to time (one of the main points I can conclude from the info). I’ve heard of vendors working with buyers when this happens. I guess I’m just afraid of committing to large amounts moreso than stopping altogether. Thanks for the input! BTW I’m taking a month break at least. Just want to start fresh when I do jump into the market from the vendors in this community. Still doing research up until then.

Post by **gumbyke1** » Sat Sep 21, 2019 6:00 am

Delete

Post by **gumbyke1** » Fri Oct 25, 2019 4:57 pm

ModestMark90 wrote:
mivanqua wrote:
ModestMark90 wrote:
I understand what you’re saying. That was my initial reaction as well. I was reading with my roommate and I said that I’m sure it won’t amount to anything other than be aware of whom you’re purchasing from. That being said, even in this community, you’re more than likely going to purchase “bunk” from time to time (one of the main points I can conclude from the info). I’ve heard of vendors working with buyers when this happens. I guess I’m just afraid of committing to large amounts more than stopping altogether. Thanks for the input! BTW I’m taking a month break at least. Just want to start fresh when I do jump into the market from the vendors in this community. Still doing research up until then.

Every vendor gets "bunk" product from time to time - this is a big "un-seen cost" of being in the kratom industry. However, a good vendor will absolutely not sell this to their customers - so it doesn't mean you have to accept that as the end customer.

With that said, if you ever get a batch from a good vendor that is "bunk" perhaps try sending small samples to other members of the community (you can send small amounts pretty cheaply). The saying "one person's trash is another person's treasure" could never be more true than with kratom.

Post by **GrannyJ62** » Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:37 pm

Love this in depth look at our leaf thank you so much is it ok if I share this a little on Facebook it reminds me of picking strawberries a bit lol

Post by **gumbyke1** » Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:38 pm

GrannyJ62 wrote:Love this in depth look at our leaf thank you so much is it ok if I share this a little on Facebook it reminds me of picking strawberries a bit lol

Please share... we could use more folks visiting double M!!!

Post by **GrannyJ62** » Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:30 pm

Lol well that was quick just got booted out of a couple groups sometimes Facebook groups are so silly I have always believed that knowledge is power but sadly on Facebook many groups are so jealous.I truly appreciate your series and I m just glad I was able to check it out its pieces like this so many people are looking for when they Google Kratom.Unfortunatly even finding doubleM is hard t won't stop pushing it forward though

Post by **gumbyke1** » Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:31 am

GrannyJ62 wrote:Lol well that was quick just got booted out of a couple groups sometimes Facebook groups are so silly I have always believed that knowledge is power but sadly on Facebook many groups are so jealous.I truly appreciate your series and I m just glad I was able to check it out its pieces like this so many people are looking for when they Google Kratom.Unfortunatly even finding doubleM is hard t won't stop pushing it forward though

Im sorry, I was assuming you meant you were going to share it on your facebook timeline. I don't really Facebook much, so I forget how much of it is organized by groups. I think many of the facebook "kratom groups" are controlled by vendors - which is why they wouldn't want you sharing this. Ive read that they have their little groups that become an echo chamber of praise for vendor XYZ and if anybody steps out of bounds they get banished...

Sorry you got booted

Post by **Oletimer** » Sat Oct 26, 2019 7:22 pm

All this information is great work gumbyke, ,I think it would be great to publish a book!

Post by **K-Dawg** » Mon Nov 11, 2019 2:13 am

WOW! Gumby, thank you so much for taking the time to do this. I am relatively new to Kratom and have been doing a lot of research on it and you just supplied EVERYTHING I was curious about in layman's terms. Thank you for passing on your experience.

Post by **IndelibleDotInk** » Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:03 pm

very interesting! great look at the industry from an insider's perspective. mahalo, and i will be awaiting more.

Post by **gumbyke1** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:35 am

Bump for Nov update.

Post by **Theanine** » Thu Nov 28, 2019 9:07 am

This is a book worthy thread no doubt. Some amazing information in each of Gumby's posts. The latest stem and vein information simply blew my mind!

Post by **Jpybot** » Sat Nov 30, 2019 12:55 am

I spent more time than I'd like to admit going through all the info in this thread. It's very demistifying. When you first start purchasing kratom it can feel sketchy and intimidating with all of the misinformation out there. I wish more vendors made an effort to prove that their product is held to a certain standard. Thankfully there's this community of people. Thanks for the post gumbyke.

Post by **Quinndyl** » Sat Nov 30, 2019 11:27 am

Such a great read! Thank you gumbyke! I’m the kinda person who likes to know how and why about everything so I really enjoyed

Post by **Somethingsacred** » Sat Nov 30, 2019 5:12 pm

gumbyke1 wrote:
Somethingsacred wrote:Thank you
Much gratitude
Big thanks
Looking forward to following your journey

Hey thanks for coming over here and checking it out! I tell you, I think you will like it here more This community rocks!

I apologize for such a late reply ... but your right ... I like general positivity and knowledge sharing going on here .... I’ve been visiting a lot more lately .... lovely community of diff but likeminded folks ... thx for the suggestion to check it out ..!!..!!..

Post by **brave777** » Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:10 pm

Jpybot wrote:I spent more time than I'd like to admit going through all the info in this thread. It's very demistifying. When you first start purchasing kratom it can feel sketchy and intimidating with all of the misinformation out there. I wish more vendors made an effort to prove that their product is held to a certain standard. Thankfully there's this community of people. Thanks for the post gumbyke.

I want to second this, if any vendors who actually spend time with their suppliers, get pictures, images, process and some history behind their location in Indonesia worth every penny of mine. You know what you getting all the way to your house, now who wouldn't like that? Also vendors who invest in suppliers like keep in touch everyday or at least 2 times a week to see what suppliers are doing to improve dry techniques, maybe start washing leafs well the list can go on... No one needs GMP crap when you can watch the process your self how a tree leaf goes trough the steps and all the way down to your belly with confidence. So far gumpy won me, and i am so glad to be part of this Double M forum!

The thing is if you get it from anyone else, its still a gamble, it could be all good and best fire leaf and all of a sudden go's down the drain. I really hope smiley, Mitra, Sosa, Liza, Fused and everyone here on the Ballz list who i love so much spend some time with the supplier and dedicate one page for it. don't ya'll think that be wining our hearts and minds? It sure would mine! Its called building trust instead ordering blindly not knowing what you will get. Good thing we have this forum to do reviews.

I use to go in blind, i stopped doing that because i realized most of it i wont even be using and i only use the best out of the best kratom! Anyway, just some idea's for everyone.

Post by **Kramerica** » Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:39 pm

Well done!!! This was a great comprehensive article!

I would like to discuss a US Kratom farming operation with you.

You can email me at [email protected]

Post by **gumbyke1** » Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:45 am

Kramerica wrote:Well done!!! This was a great comprehensive article!

I would like to discuss a US Kratom farming operation with you.

You can email me at [email protected]

Thank you! I already have a US partner that I've been working with, thanks for the offer

Post by **gumbyke1** » Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:01 am

Hey everyone - I'll be making a few more updates in the next week or so. I wanted to ask is there anything specific folks were curious about? If there is something you would like to see covered, please shoot me a PM!

Post by **housebuilder112** » Wed Jan 01, 2020 5:50 pm

Wow, just found this. Amazing work. learned a lot! Thank you for for this.

Post by **BuffaloPizza22** » Sat Jan 04, 2020 3:26 am

Just read through everything you posted, Gumby. Thank you for the amazing, informative post!!

This is my first post on this forum, figured it would be a good place. Came over here from the Kratom discord. Thanks again for everything you do Chris!

Post by **kmu777** » Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:11 pm

What an amazing post; thank you for sharing with us. I keep circling back to this and catching something new each time. Happy Friday all!

Post by **gumbyke1** » Sun Mar 01, 2020 2:32 am

Thanks for the supportive words everyone!

Bump for March update.

Post by **BurntEnds** » Sun Mar 01, 2020 5:13 am

Gumby I'm curious...without digging through the entire thread is there a way to know where new updates were made in the thread? I dunno maybe it's just me but there's so much here and it's been a couple months since the last time I looked at it so it usually takes a while to figure it out by looking at "last edited" on the bottom of each of your posts.

Post by **gumbyke1** » Sun Mar 01, 2020 6:34 am

BurntEnds wrote:Gumby I'm curious...without digging through the entire thread is there a way to know where new updates were made in the thread? I dunno maybe it's just me but there's so much here and it's been a couple months since the last time I looked at it so it usually takes a while to figure it out by looking at "last edited" on the bottom of each of your posts.

Fantastic question - one that I sure many folks would wonder. You inspired me to include an "Update Announcement" at the top of the first comment.... thanks for that!

Here are the latest additions:

1. "The Newest Batch Of Your Favorite Strain"
2. "Be Nice To Your Vendor"

Post by **7ohm** » Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:33 pm

Was discussed several years ago on the 7ohm.com blog post:https://www.7ohm.info/2017/06/what-effe ... -have.html

Post by **Soonerfanatic** » Sun Mar 08, 2020 2:58 pm

Amen! Someone finally shares the same views as I have for years. I’ve argued to the fact that a new strain pops up every day and in reality there’s only two. Horned leaf and plain leaf. Vein colors mean nothing. It’s all about how it’s cured, dried and or fermented. One of the most informative Kratom posts I’ve ever had the pleasure to read.
Thanks brother, I know that took a lot of time and research!

Post by **acejestyr15** » Sun Mar 08, 2020 3:05 pm

7ohm wrote:Was discussed several years ago on the 7ohm.com blog post:https://www.7ohm.info/2017/06/what-effe ... -have.html

Did you really just straight up plug yourself in another vendors behind the scenes thread?!?! Hahahah

Post by **7ohm** » Sun Mar 08, 2020 5:31 pm

acejestyr15 wrote:
7ohm wrote:Was discussed several years ago on the 7ohm.com blog post:https://www.7ohm.info/2017/06/what-effe ... -have.html
Did you really just straight up plug yourself in another vendors behind the scenes thread?!?! Hahahah

I thought I was just sharing an article from a blog. Isn't the thread about the entire kratom industry. Sorry, I'll try not to contribute information from my blog again. Not sure what I was thinking, my bad.

Post by **acejestyr15** » Sun Mar 08, 2020 5:57 pm

7ohm wrote:
acejestyr15 wrote:
7ohm wrote:Was discussed several years ago on the 7ohm.com blog post:https://www.7ohm.info/2017/06/what-effe ... -have.html
Did you really just straight up plug yourself in another vendors behind the scenes thread?!?! Hahahah

I thought I was just sharing an article from a blog. Isn't the thread about the entire kratom industry. Sorry, I'll try not to contribute information from my blog again. Not sure what I was thinking, my bad.

It seemed like you were downplaying the relevance, one upping, and or advertising/promoting yourself by the way that it read..... If that genuinely wasn't the intention, than my bad!!

Post by **downsouthcubbie** » Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:53 pm

I can’t thank you enough for taking the time to educate us consumers.. You are top notch in my book!!

Post by **Alarming-Depth** » Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:11 pm

This is incredibly in-depth, thank you for these insights!

Post by **IndelibleDotInk** » Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:20 pm

Where are the new sections? Sry, am having trouble with finding 1. "The Newest Batch Of Your Favorite Strain"
2. "Be Nice To Your Vendor"

Thanks super interesting!

Post by **Loseandfindbooks** » Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:14 am

This is a wealth of information, my head is spinning and I’m not even half way through. I’m definitely going to keep reading and checking out your videos on YouTube. I’m ashamed that I have been using Kratom for close to 5 years now and I didn’t know... well most of this. I have always been big on being an informed consumer. I think Iv been burying my head in the sand on this one for long enough. Thank you for the wealth of information.

Post by **gumbyke1** » Tue Apr 28, 2020 4:06 pm

IndelibleDotInk wrote:Where are the new sections? Sry, am having trouble with finding 1. "The Newest Batch Of Your Favorite Strain"
2. "Be Nice To Your Vendor"

Thanks super interesting!

Sorry for taking so long to reply here! You just scroll down about 4/5ths of the way down on the first page of this thread.

Post by **Tyl3rM** » Fri May 01, 2020 5:11 am

Awesome information.
Lets say you lost all your access to supply, hypothetically, knowing what you know now, how would you go about choosing a vendor?
I started off getting my Kratom online years ago, but got tired of ordering in time before I ran out. Always had cursed smoke shop brands, but ended up finding one brand Remarkable Herbs, that sufficed in quality for the convenience trade off. Recently though, when a batch seemed totally inert, is when I just stayed up till 4am digging to find someone to trust. Tried to find someone in Louisiana, to support local, but no go. I realize you're rarely accepting new customers, but recommendations on finding a down to earth vendor as yourself. Or even references to people you know are accepting customers? Thanks!

Post by **acejestyr15** » Fri May 01, 2020 6:43 am

Tyl3rM wrote:Awesome information.
Lets say you lost all your access to supply, hypothetically, knowing what you know now, how would you go about choosing a vendor?
I started off getting my Kratom online years ago, but got tired of ordering in time before I ran out. Always had cursed smoke shop brands, but ended up finding one brand Remarkable Herbs, that sufficed in quality for the convenience trade off. Recently though, when a batch seemed totally inert, is when I just stayed up till 4am digging to find someone to trust. Tried to find someone in Louisiana, to support local, but no go. I realize you're rarely accepting new customers, but recommendations on finding a down to earth vendor as yourself. Or even references to people you know are accepting customers? Thanks!

Since the open events is over and TFH doesn't accept new members still I would recommend Fused Flora and or Leaves of Eden!!! They both are small batch top level vendors with plenty of reviews, nice selections, solid consistency, and a big one for me is the class of customer service just like Chris and Angie here with TFH. LOE is a mewe vendors so either have to find them there or shoot them an email.... Fused Flora has a very nice website FusedFlora.com and the owner Shaun is a very active member here who always answers questions promptly and is extremely knowledgeable also similar to the TFH staff.... Hope this is helpful, good luck, and WELCOME!!!!

Post by **spoutnic** » Sun May 03, 2020 9:37 am

Thanks a lot for this quality tread @Gumbyke1! Im learning quite a lot from it. What you expose are the reasons why its sometimes better to have a regulated market. Marijuana legalisation is a godsend to our society. And I think people are more and more interested in tracability of what we consume. Its keeps producers accountable. And gives better products

About the washing phase using vinegar. Could it be kind of like an acid soak that potentiates it?
And how about talking about seasons in relation to kratom?

Im looking foward to the follow ups!

Post by **Kratatomic** » Sun May 03, 2020 9:44 pm

I was up late last night after finding this forum and this thread specifically. Been purchasing kratom since 2008, I’ve waited 12 years for something like it! I was reading the whole first page like it was a journal of medicine, haha. Excellent work, thank you for this. Now on to page 2...

Post by **Back2K** » Mon May 04, 2020 2:14 am

This is amazing information. I was already always very worried about Kratom's sanitation long before I think anyone else was, back in the Kratom Connoisseurs days, around 2013. I never even thought that much into the farmers themselves literally raking it in the dirt, but I guess I didn't expect much care or washing going on, and was always afraid of bug, bat, or bird shit being on it, which could have serious health implications if ingested raw, even down to tropical parasites! I wonder if the milling process would at least kill parasites you think, and then heavy metals and bacteria are the only worry at that point? I'd rather get salmonella or e coli than a brain eating worm or something xD

I saw the cool video of your suppliers, and it motivated me to place an order. At best, it's safe for consumption. At worst, it will at least be good product, and what someone is expecting when buying kratom: real Kratom. I need to stop being lazy and definitely boil my kratom before use everytime. I try to, but then I also just throw a spoonful in my mouth if I don't feel like doing all that prep work. A different vendor, Botanical Bunny, even gave me the idea to prep several doses at once in a sunny D bottle and pour boiling water on it. Hopefully that would be enough to kill any nasties in it.

Also, your suppliers really look cool with their special green shirts and the printed banners and stuff. It really does instill a sense of confidence and professionalism. I'm sure your guys are some of the best suppliers no matter what, but I still hope they at least adhere to the strict washing practices at all times. I wonder if complacency, or when not being watched by you, makes them a bit more slack? A tough question and thought, yes, but you still seem very aware of this possibility. They at least seem like good people, and proud of what they do, and you have certainly brought a whole economical boom to their lives. I hope this type of work gets more and more common in the industry, and Kratom is not so mystified anymore.

Also, one last question. Did you train them to be like this, and create their system, or were they already working like that before you found them? And they DO know it's for human consumption, right? (Because you mentioned a lot of harvesters seeing it as leaves in a yard, and eating Kratom is foreign to them.)Thank you for also continuing to take the time to hit the forums even with all the orders you are filling with just you and your wife. I'm super glad I made the cut-off! I ordered 300 grams to start, the biggest order I have ever made, let alone from a vendor I have never personally tried yet! And I just recently got back into Kratom! Looking forward to trying it, thank you for opening the orders up for the common connoisseur!