Double M Herbals | Kratom Forum

Folks,

There was mention here about a red I think I raved about (hard to know anymore - my strains are approaching 100 and I'm getting confused even more than normal <g>. I may have to start journaling again) with someone saying something along the lines of "reds don't work for me" (or perhaps "fermented reds don't work for me").

I thought I'd say how I use reds so that perhaps if I do rave about something people could put it into context. When I was buying from the mass market guys reds NEVER worked for me, no matter how much I used. Whites and greens, yes, but never a red, so much that I gave away around 4 kilos of various sorts to a friend. Then I started getting the quality stuff and once again tried reds and this time I found they DID work, and work very well (so perhaps there is a big difference in the smaller vendor's reds versus the big boys, an even bigger difference than the other two colors. I dunno).

But I use reds in a very specific way - right before I go to sleep. So being able to measure the effect is a bit tricky. As an old man I tend to wake up five or ten times a night - sometimes to pee (and I've done this since I was very young so at least that part ain't an old man thing) sometimes just shifting position and due to the pain I then wake up. In any case, the two things I'm very aware of when I use a good red is that:

1) I sleep through the night waking perhaps only once or twice. Which is amazing in and of itself. Also - when I awake, I am not in pain. Again, amazing.
2) I sleep longer. Without Kratom I'm good to get five or so hours. WITH Kratom I have been able to sleep even as long as eight, although typically it's around seven (again, amazing).

But that's the only way I can judge. Perhaps others use reds when awake, so if *I* say a red is great for me, it may not be for them because while being awake it doesn't do what they want it to do. I guess what I'm saying is that sedation and pain relief is all I want. Those one or two times I wake up I also feel "great" - warm and comforted - but it's hard to say whether that's just not being in pain or whether it's an actual effect from the Kratom.

Last night I took Denette's Red Bone (3 grams) and while I had played tennis earlier that day (and wrecked my body pretty much) I did sleep sound and wonderfully. It was a spectacular red - for me and for what I wanted. Obviously YMMV.

I've taken Kratom for nearly 6 years and the only time I felt reds at all were maybe the first year or so. But for the last 4 years, I never take Kratom for sleep. In fact, I think Ballz from this forum told me once that taking kratom for sleep was a waste of kratom or something like that and for me that is so true. When I use to dose in the evening, especially late evening, it would mess with my tolerance. I only dose during an eight hour time span during the day. For instance, if I take my first dose at 8 a.m., I won't take my last dose later than 4 p.m. So most everyday, I go 16 hours with no Kratom. It's just what has worked for me so that I can dose everyday, without ever having to take a tolerance break and my kratom always works well. The only time I've ever taken a break was force on me because I was on grueling chemo for 3 mos in 2019 and I could keep hardly anything down so I didn't want to waste my tea lol.

Every body is different - taking Kratom at night to sleep is obviously not a waste for me, but that's probably because I'm a LOT older than most of you and in pain nearly all the time and sleep is very difficult most nights. Particularly after tennis. Without Kratom I get, at most, three or four hours sleep and it's fitful. But with it I can sleep for seven hours or more, which is a blessed relief.

OTOH - taking Kratom for me in the middle of the day is a complete waste of taking it. For me, those folks who do are just wasting their tolerance for when they REALLY need it.

I'm experimenting with greens for pain, but I gotta say, day or night, my favorite reds that sedate and handle pain are Mystic Island Big Red, Liza's Trainwreck, and a few PMD's like from Herbal RVA. Dennete's Red Bone sometimes works, sometimes doesn't. I dunno why.

I don't take any Kratom during the day (other than first thing in the morning on tennis days) but I guess I should experiment with greens at night just to see.

I can honestly manage my pain pretty well mostly by just knowing that if it gets TOO bad I can always get some relief - just the idea that Kratom will help can get me through a lot. But night is a whole different matter, as if I can't get to sleep (or, more usually, wake up and can't get BACK to sleep) due to the pain I have to take something. But perhaps next time I'll try a green just to see (I don't think I actually need the sedation as much as I need the pain relief/relaxation).

Oh, and on the "sometimes works, sometimes doesn't" you might try reading some of Ballz many threads on the subject - he's convinced it's empty bowels (me, whose bowels are always regular, finds it's more a matter of empty stomach, but perhaps both are required).

I have had terrible insomnia for nearly 30years and I well into my 60's now. Kratom just doesn't work for me when it comes to sleep so there are other things I take for that. I have several reds that I have mixed with greens when I've was in pain from a surgery a few years ago and it worked well. I didn't need to take the prescription pain medicine they gave me. I'm glad reds work for you. Whites and greens have been my saving grace so that I don't have to take anti-depressants. After, you've taken Kratom, like myself for nearly 6 years, you know what works for you.

if I can get that pain relieving red to keep me from waking up in abject agony, it's a winner. I take quite a hefty amount of (red) before bed so it keeps me still and not drugged up on sleeping pills...

Reds used to not have any effect on me at all, but since I've cut my dose down (from 7-8 grams to 3 or less) they work MUCH better (also - taken on an empty stomach. Always).

So like now - I took some (capsules) around 90 minutes ago and I'm already starting to nod off (and the pain has disappeared - and I play tennis HARD, at least for an old man). Everyone is different, though, but now I find almost ANY red (from a quality vendor) works just fine (it's kind of Ballz theory - although because I'm "regular" and have no bowel issues I think for me it's more a matter of lower doses AND empty stomach).

There is way more bunk reds then good and there is way more good greens over bad, thats just my experience. There only hand full of reds i like, and the rest is bunk, bunk still works just not the sweet chill back warm blanket. I think since there is way more bad reds, this reason reds does not work for most people, not getting full benefits of a red. There are goods reds out there, so if your rich, its worth keep tryin.

Honestly, since I've switched to the small quality vendors there have not been ANY reds which haven't worked for me.

But... you have to do the work. You can't just blindly buy (unless it's from a vendor you REALLY trust, and only then when the reviews are good and/or the published report looks fine). I also find that the best vendors will give you their personal recommendations - and they didn't get to be the best by lying.

Last night I took the BEST Kratom I've ever had - bar none, regardless of color or vendor. Turned out to be the Herbal RVA red. It still is, hands down, SO much better than any other Kratom strain I've bought from ANY other vendor it's not even close (eight hours later I'm still feeling that 2.5 grams - this from a huge guy with tolerance problems who used to dose up to 8 grams at a time to feel a thing). Fluke? I don't think so - the reviews and reports said it would be good and it was.