Double M Herbals | Kratom Forum

I participated in the webinar. I thought the presenters were very enthusiastic about Kratoms "acceptance. They say the FDA is losing the battle to convince the DEA from making it illegal. Now congressman and others are wanting Kratom to be scientifically studied and regulated. I feel like this is the direction right now. I don't know what will happen after the next election, but Biden has signed 2 bills to do further research on Kratom. The presenters ( one of which was a former US drug czar), said the science is winning.

This is amazing to hear. Thanks for the info.

I do sense that the AKA is going for big business. It is kind of what happened to pot. Maybe if it is regulated it will be a good product, BUT it is going to put the Mom and Pop vendors out of business, except Double M members. Maybe we can keep them afloat. Which reminds me ... I can't wait for our 2023 vendor list.

IdiopathicPain247 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 30, 2023 8:50 am I participated in the webinar. I thought the presenters were very enthusiastic about Kratoms "acceptance. They say the FDA is losing the battle to convince the DEA from making it illegal. Now congressman and others are wanting Kratom to be scientifically studied and regulated. I feel like this is the direction right now. I don't know what will happen after the next election, but Biden has signed 2 bills to do further research on Kratom. The presenters ( one of which was a former US drug czar), said the science is winning.

It's been looking pretty good for a while. There is a Lot to learn from observing things closely this entire time. A LOT.
Overall I'm pretty happy.

All that text down there couldn't be a good thing can it?
I don't think many see what I do farther ahead - tipped off partly by certain words uttered by Mac Haddow that I never want to hear in relation to kratom but I believe we have a say in what happens IF enough ppl care < but you have to understand what happens to things when they get into the industrial machine. It's pretty clear most kratom consumers don't. It already has begun and I don't know what we have to work with way of clues or indicators of how quality may be impacted in some or all cases- by radioactive energy exposure. Say Thank you to the voice of demanding consumers everywhere for irradiated kratom. It's now the standard. We don't need more safety. NO WE DON'T Risks with kratom can be easily mitigated. Whatever you're afraid of. What we need from consumers is a lot more competence. It comes standard with every model and activates if it believes the truth - that you're on your own. Somebody ought to pull the rug tbh.
And awareness. As for the scarlet letter - Adulterants. Lets' hear from people who have been getting spiked powder. Or how about finding it through screening. They don't have examples.
They don't have examples to show us. Sure it could happen. But are we having a problem with it (no). A little awareness of danger ought to keep you on your toes though eh? It's always there. Awareness is key. Not fear. You'll manage risk if you think you have to to survive. That's a suggestion. NO - it does NOT mean demand more illusions and interference.

Yet, Mr Haddow has for years now been using FDA social engineering tactics in support of AKA's own business interests- by injecting a belief that we have a problem with kratom being "spiked with opioids". Well it's not impossible to imagine but anyone giving it much thought understands that something not right. The "Krypton" disaster - which really did kill people overseas and many years past- happened. If it REALLY EVER happened here - do you think you would not know about it in detail Right Now?

I feel we have a right to know that has happened in light of concrete examples. He doesn't have any.. If he did, we'd have them too. Now I'm not overtly Anti-AKA but knowing now what I do about their intentions and looking farther than fear and hopey hope that in my simple mind - "just don't make it illegal" - AKA is the party that wants to rush kratom into the market machinery that all of our other products go through. Aspect of death. That describes our environments too.

We need the unique qualities of kratom. It' goes beyond the substance itself and it's properties. Our interactions with it on all fronts should be revealing to us. We should lbe learning from what we see. Not continuing to be highly conditioned US consumers when we did not have to be.

We don't - no Id say not many have the perspective I do way of the value that natural variation provides. It's a nuisance acd to many ppl but if people could re-learn awareness, prioritized over knowing - which is equivalent to being programmable, It's another very rare dimension- and a quality that adds quality (shouldn't need to be added) to living when you begin to roll with it and use innate problem solving ability+ resourcefulness with it.
There's so much more to kratom than "taking it". It's about solving your own problems which is being less dependent, not more. Don't wait for business interests to remind you or point this out.

The Word
I did write to Mac Haddow (again- he's not ever once replied. Some occasions I can understand why.) But really - we do not want to hear the word STANDARDIZED in relation to our kratom EVER. Now with lab processed extracts - it's to be expected but when business machines are cut loose on kratom, it's nature is not going to be respected. Like plants in FL and the synthetic fertilizer experiments. There's a dark side to that.

Very interesting post! I think you are right on. Every product that industry takes over, destroys it's original attraction/use and replaces it with advertisement and greed for profit. I have never donated to the AKA. I am learning as I go. My own experience with dedicated small vendors and particularly the folks on Double M are the way to go for me.
BUT, how can we stop the industrial machine. They have ruined our healthcare, and our planet to gain more power/money. They will probably "standardize" Kratom. For now, and hopefully for a long time, there will be more awareness of Kratom's benefits. Most people in the future, when/if it is industrialized will buy their Kratom from the "market". I will support small vendors until they run them out of town.

Transformato..
My head is exploding .
I always have to read your responses several times to extract the message. There's a lot in there.
It seems we're perched on a double edged sword. Bottom line:
We do need a lobbying presence in government to simply keep kratom legal. That's the bottom of the bottom line, no?
We do want quality control so that we're not ingesting contaminated products...whether it's bacteria from some farmer's foot or salmonella from nearby feces
We don't (or at least I don't) want it so over regulated that all you can get is kratom gummies from General Mills or Nestle.
Isn't there a way forward that incorporates a tfh model of good clean intact kratom in all its glory?
Think bread. You can buy Wonder bread if that's your thing but you can also find some really great bread if you shop around.

Transformato wrote: ↑Sun Sep 03, 2023 6:39 am

IdiopathicPain247 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 30, 2023 8:50 am I participated in the webinar. I thought the presenters were very enthusiastic about Kratoms "acceptance. They say the FDA is losing the battle to convince the DEA from making it illegal. Now congressman and others are wanting Kratom to be scientifically studied and regulated. I feel like this is the direction right now. I don't know what will happen after the next election, but Biden has signed 2 bills to do further research on Kratom. The presenters ( one of which was a former US drug czar), said the science is winning.

It's been looking pretty good for a while. There is a Lot to learn from observing things closely this entire time. A LOT.
Overall I'm pretty happy.

All that text down there couldn't be a good thing can it?
I don't think many see what I do farther ahead - tipped off partly by certain words uttered by Mac Haddow that I never want to hear in relation to kratom but I believe we have a say in what happens IF enough ppl care < but you have to understand what happens to things when they get into the industrial machine. It's pretty clear most kratom consumers don't. It already has begun and I don't know what we have to work with way of clues or indicators of how quality may be impacted in some or all cases- by radioactive energy exposure. Say Thank you to the voice of demanding consumers everywhere for irradiated kratom. It's now the standard. We don't need more safety. NO WE DON'T Risks with kratom can be easily mitigated. Whatever you're afraid of. What we need from consumers is a lot more competence. It comes standard with every model and activates if it believes the truth - that you're on your own. Somebody ought to pull the rug tbh.
...

I watched a single video that turned me off to him, and made me question his motives, and what will happen if he gets uncritical acceptance from the community. He said that kratom should not produce euphoria, and if you experience this, then the kratom has been adulterated.

No - i don't want this person to have too much power in the fight to keep kratom legal.

"He said that kratom should not produce euphoria, and if you experience this, then the kratom has been adulterated"
This is SO KOOKY on multi levels. I'd love to see the actual quote and its context. I don't suppose you can link to it without having to watch the entire webinar? Did he say what kratom WAS supposed to do?
PS I guess my coffee's been adulterated too.

boureka wrote: ↑Sun Sep 03, 2023 4:46 pm "He said that kratom should not produce euphoria, and if you experience this, then the kratom has been adulterated"
This is SO KOOKY on multi levels. I'd love to see the actual quote and its context. I don't suppose you can link to it without having to watch the entire webinar? Did he say what kratom WAS supposed to do?
PS I guess my coffee's been adulterated too.

I've been suspicious of your coffee for some time now!

boureka wrote: ↑Sun Sep 03, 2023 4:46 pm "He said that kratom should not produce euphoria, and if you experience this, then the kratom has been adulterated"
This is SO KOOKY on multi levels. I'd love to see the actual quote and its context. I don't suppose you can link to it without having to watch the entire webinar? Did he say what kratom WAS supposed to do?
PS I guess my coffee's been adulterated too.

this was a couple of weeks ago or so. don't still have the link, and i think it was towards the end. I vaguely remember a thread here about it.

boureka wrote: ↑Sun Sep 03, 2023 4:46 pm "He said that kratom should not produce euphoria, and if you experience this, then the kratom has been adulterated"
This is SO KOOKY on multi levels. I'd love to see the actual quote and its context. I don't suppose you can link to it without having to watch the entire webinar? Did he say what kratom WAS supposed to do?
PS I guess my coffee's been adulterated too.

"multi levels" "context" H a p p y Yes, less judge, more think independently and then together we can talk about it. The independent part is where realized power is.

So I'm clear, I'm not wanting to fuel side-edness re the AKA. My view is a mixed bag. Big name kratom hero's are also holding to administrative, commercial mindset (of course) but I don't see quality life in that direction.
I'm willing to nudge the impossible - let that dead weight come apart.
Mac Haddow is a specialist in playing the game and that's what it has taken to overcome the FDA/Pharma partnership on this front. There are many more fronts that you should care about beside and
eventually you will. (talking to everyone here)

Those who say - well it's going to happen, what can I do about it? You just intend to do your part toward what you believe in when the oppty comes up. That's all. But do it ceremoniously- with passion and a confidence that seems unlike you.
Call it out and it's there.
Beyond big long term plans, this need to know (how am I going to,..?) is not your friend. It's conditioned response that gets in your way. The means present themselves to you when you committed w/o any indecisiveness.
Think on it in your clear, private space that isn't compromised or tapped into.
attention- intention is Your power of creation. Don't waste it. Everyone loses a little when you do.

What we've had is very very rare. Remember than the next time you start to say something is "too good to be true".
Some said that with kratom and that's a source of problems you can take or leave.


I think there is a way to link to a time in the video but I didn't watch it and searching "adulterated" - it' aren't happening efficiently so here ya go!

AKA_SpecialQ&AWebinar-subtitle_timeline

AKA_SpecialQ&AWebinar-subtitle_notimestamps

In addition to the "mindfulness" tone of this response, this old man would like to add his two cents.

Regardless of what the future may hold, you KNOW what NOW is - so gather ye acorns while ye may. Money, of course, is ALWAYS an issue (even to the very, very right - we kid ourselves otherwise, but they just want more stuff than we do), but do whatever it takes to make sure you buy enough stuff NOW. Those of you a lot younger than myself will, of course, have a much harder time, but whatever you do do not look back on "the good old days" when you could buy from all these quality vendors and you didn't because, well, you wanted that new phone or streaming subscription or even new car or new set of threads. THOSE things will always be around. Kratom from our small vendors may not.

And don't ever say I didn't warn you.

Kelleytoons wrote: ↑Mon Sep 04, 2023 8:12 am In addition to the "mindfulness" tone of this response, this old man would like to add his two cents.

Regardless of what the future may hold, you KNOW what NOW is - so gather ye acorns while ye may. Money, of course, is ALWAYS an issue (even to the very, very right - we kid ourselves otherwise, but they just want more stuff than we do), but do whatever it takes to make sure you buy enough stuff NOW. Those of you a lot younger than myself will, of course, have a much harder time, but whatever you do do not look back on "the good old days" when you could buy from all these quality vendors and you didn't because, well, you wanted that new phone or streaming subscription or even new car or new set of threads. THOSE things will always be around. Kratom from our small vendors may not.

And don't ever say I didn't warn you.

Right on KT. This is my exact mindset. What we have going for us is a blessing & nobody knows that the future may hold. I’d rather have it now and put away than to never have it at all.

Kelleytoons wrote: ↑Mon Sep 04, 2023 8:12 am In addition to the "mindfulness" tone of this response, this old man would like to add his two cents.

Regardless of what the future may hold, you KNOW what NOW is - so gather ye acorns while ye may. Money, of course, is ALWAYS an issue (even to the very, very right - we kid ourselves otherwise, but they just want more stuff than we do), but do whatever it takes to make sure you buy enough stuff NOW. Those of you a lot younger than myself will, of course, have a much harder time, but whatever you do do not look back on "the good old days" when you could buy from all these quality vendors and you didn't because, well, you wanted that new phone or streaming subscription or even new car or new set of threads. THOSE things will always be around. Kratom from our small vendors may not.

And don't ever say I didn't warn you.

Yes I think that is a good way to look at it. Worst happens, you'll have a lot of plenty, lol. Just store it carefully!

I haven't been able to find any information on long term storage and I've tried. Even started a thread. Doesn't seem like anyone reported on 20, 30 year old kratom. It's not information that's out there.

I do believe there was a thread where folks had tried some kratom that was not even well stored that was over a decade old, with no adverse effects.

Given that storing medicine under ideal conditions (dark sealed glass, away from heat or light) can result in those meds being useful even a decade or two later I doubt whether kratom would suffer. To me, of course, it really doesn't matter (if I got 10 years I'd be thrilled - my kratom would still outlive me :>).