Double M Herbals | Kratom Forum

Hello wise kratom fellows,

I have been using kratom for a little over 3 years now. I’ve tried over 50 vendors and countless different batches/farmers within most vendors. Needless to say, I have a *very* large stash. I used to always get 250g bags of kratom, but I noticed the effects would almost always cease less than halfway through the bag. I then started buying 100-125g bags, but I still have never finished a bag due to lack of effects. Can anyone speculate as to why? Has this happened to anyone else? Before you answer, let me make a few points in anticipation of suggestions you may make:

1) Tolerance- I regularly take leaf breaks and I know it’s not my tolerance because newer leaf/leaf I haven’t gotten halfway into yet still works very well for me.

2) Dose- I dose between 2.5-4g per dose 2-3 times per day, which I think is a reasonable amount. Dose size and frequency depends on pain level and a reputable vendor (forgot who) believes that switching up your dose prevents tolerance; that makes sense to me, so that’s also partially why I do that.

3) Rotation/Time between re-dosing same batch- As previously mentioned, I have a very large collection so rotation is not an issue for me. I never run the same strain more than once every two weeks. I’ve even tried waiting much longer. For example, in late 2022 or early 2023, Okie Kratom had an *amazing* Red MD. It was everything I was looking for in a red and more. Sadly, after a few doses. It stopped working. I kept trying again after weeks, then a month, then a few months.. Finally, I waited a YEAR. I tried it again the other day.. and it STILL didn’t work

Thanks for reading! Please comment any suggestions, commiserations, or randomness.

-Nique <3

I experience this too, except sometimes I get the opposite where a batch won't work at all at first and after getting familiar with it then it suddenly hits (those batches will stay effective for longer than the ones that hit right away it seems). I haven't found a way to really recapture the magic, but I noticed my dose size has been creeping up substantially so I cut back a bit (from 5-6 grams to now 3-4) and I've gotten some effects revisiting batches at a lower dose that had otherwise turned off. My dose reduction will continue at a comfortable pace, kratom seems very forgiving when it comes to reducing. So my current dose size is at the higher end of your range but since I noticed improvements, I anticipate better effects from going lower.

It's still nothing like the first time I try a batch but at least some of the more unique effects are back. Once I've gotten used to a batch, I probably couldn't tell if it's a green or a white, let alone anything that differentiates it from similar batches.

I’ve never had anything suddenly stop working after 50g, but I have had some strains/batches that simply do nothing from the beginning. So I store them away and revisit them months later, but they still don’t do anything for me. Sometimes we just get duds.

I’ve gone through entire 250g bags without rotating in other strains and have gotten effects the entire time. Remember, everyone’s body chemistry is different. This is just my own experience with it.

notwithy wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2024 1:46 pm I experience this too, except sometimes I get the opposite where a batch won't work at all at first and after getting familiar with it then it suddenly hits (those batches will stay effective for longer than the ones that hit right away it seems). I haven't found a way to really recapture the magic, but I noticed my dose size has been creeping up substantially so I cut back a bit (from 5-6 grams to now 3-4) and I've gotten some effects revisiting batches at a lower dose that had otherwise turned off. My dose reduction will continue at a comfortable pace, kratom seems very forgiving when it comes to reducing. So my current dose size is at the higher end of your range but since I noticed improvements, I anticipate better effects from going lower.

It's still nothing like the first time I try a batch but at least some of the more unique effects are back. Once I've gotten used to a batch, I probably couldn't tell if it's a green or a white, let alone anything that differentiates it from similar batches.

Thanks for sharing your experience! Maybe I’ll dose even lower, although you’re not the first person to say that once the effects stop, they’re gone for good. What a fickle leaf.

GreenAnimal wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 8:23 am I’ve never had anything suddenly stop working after 50g, but I have had some strains/batches that simply do nothing from the beginning. So I store them away and revisit them months later, but they still don’t do anything for me. Sometimes we just get duds.

I’ve gone through entire 250g bags without rotating in other strains and have gotten effects the entire time. Remember, everyone’s body chemistry is different. This is just my own experience with it.

Yeah, I know several other people with the same experience as you. I’m so jealous lol. I do want to clarify that batches don’t stop working right at 50g, it’s like a median. So anywhere between 35-60g give or take but it is sudden. I have so many highly reviewed batches (Lazy Sunday, Hangat Hulu, Elder Red Sumatra, OG Red Sakit etc) that were initially magical now do nothing for me, not even kill pain. Now sometimes a batch won’t hit until the 2nd or 3rd time I try it, but my main issue is effects stopping well before I finish the bag. Maybe I’ll try to stick to samples (from vendors that offer them) or smaller bags when I can (Okie has 56g bags and Wildcraft has 80g bags). It’s just with ny fav vendors, 100/125g bags are the lowest I can go. I understand that everyone’s body chemistry is different, but it really sucks and I wish this leaf was more accepted and studied so we can have concrete answers instead of speculating.

Yeah, I figured it wasn’t exactly 50g on the nose. I knew you meant more like a median range. I agree with you on the bag sizes. I wish I could get a kilo split into 50-100g bags but that seems very time consuming for the vendors, which is most likely why they don’t do it. Would be nice though haha.

I’d say like 99% of the time, if a batch doesn’t hit for me, it probably will never hit. But when it does hit, it usually hits for a very long time even if I never rotate it out. So my body chemistry with this leaf is a kind of blessing and a curse.

Loss of effects is inevitable. Many on this forum have an array of methods to try to recapture the joy, from taking a month-long kratom break, to trying a variety of supplements. I've never had any supplements work for me, but I do have a method that's fairly dependable. You must develop discipline.

I start out cutting my doses in half, so for you @ 2-4g, I'd say take 2g doses 3x a day & make sure you take the last one near bedtime so you can make it through the night. Do that for 1 week. On the 7th day, cut your dose to 1g three times a day. It usually only takes until 3 days of 1g doses for the joy to return for me, but it could take longer. If after 7 days of 1g doses nothing happens, go down to 1/2g doses. I'm fairly sure you'll have success. One thing I do now is if I dose & nothing happens, I immediately cut my next dose in half. That often is all I need to do.

Taking too high of a dose or taking too many doses per day is a recipe for failure with kratom. Never dose more than three times per day, & twice per day is ideal. Try to keep your doses 2g or smaller.

pray4peace4 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2024 4:15 pm Loss of effects is inevitable. Many on this forum have an array of methods to try to recapture the joy, from taking a month-long kratom break, to trying a variety of supplements. I've never had any supplements work for me, but I do have a method that's fairly dependable. You must develop discipline.

I start out cutting my doses in half, so for you @ 2-4g, I'd say take 2g doses 3x a day & make sure you take the last one near bedtime so you can make it through the night. Do that for 1 week. On the 7th day, cut your dose to 1g three times a day. It usually only takes until 3 days of 1g doses for the joy to return for me, but it could take longer. If after 7 days of 1g doses nothing happens, go down to 1/2g doses. I'm fairly sure you'll have success. One thing I do now is if I dose & nothing happens, I immediately cut my next dose in half. That often is all I need to do.

Taking too high of a dose or taking too many doses per day is a recipe for failure with kratom. Never dose more than three times per day, & twice per day is ideal. Try to keep your doses 2g or smaller.

Thanks for your advice. I do believe that less is more and can drop my dose. I just don’t believe that my tolerance is the issue. It’s *only* when I return to strains that have stopped working for me.

If effects go to zero, I find a quick 24 hour break usually does the trick. It’s not as effective as a long break obviously but it gets the job done.

I really think oxygenation, or air making contact with the powder, really does noticeably make kratom less potent over time.
1. Try to limit the exposure of air by pressing the air out of the bags when shutting, and doing your best not to open the bag unless needing to
2. Try to rotate like 4 strains / open bags at a time vs dipping into every bag of your stash at the same time
3. Pour out and separate like 50 out of the 250 g and use the 50 g stash as your daily open and close jar/bag, and keep the rest of the 200 g bag closed until needing to refill your daily use jar/bag
4. Keep them away from heat as much as possible

You can confirm your bag of kratom has lost potency when you notice after dosing that particular strain, not only will you notice less effects, but you'll experience full on early stage withdrawal symptoms like sudden watery eyes like 2-4 hours after your last intended dose

BUT, also to take note. I got 5 125g bags of Golden Glow from TFH a few months back that everyone raves about and said was amazing, I didn't find that amazing at all. High or low doses, it just doesn't do much, freshly opened bag of not. Though I think I had a good 3 burns with it, I can't seem to make it got again. The powder is very brown, bland, and easy texture; these attributes seem to make them agree and lose potency much quicker than fresh vibrant green powder

Maybe someone can relate

One other thing (that I don't think was mentioned - still a bit too early for my eyes to open all the way) is if you have a quality batch (like something from TFH) that isn't working for you, by all means mix it with something else. Nowadays I hardly EVER take anything "straight" and the mixes are the best ever AND keep you from ever getting too used to something.

I use capsules (so it's really easy - I make them myself and that also helps with reducing air contact) but even with powder you can measure out say a 1/3 or even a 2/2 mix and I think you'll find that even if BOTH batches aren't hitting for you the combo will. In any case it's worth a try.

we keep thinking we need 250g, or if we find something we love, we think we need another bag of it; but the truth is, and the veterans know this, and I have learned from them, that as little as 100g goes a long way. Even if I dose 5g of that, that’s 20 burns. you know after 20 burns of the same strain, it’s never gonna be as effective as the first couple times.
So i say let’s just be happy with the 125g bags.
the other thing too about thinking we need more for our stash is actually kind of ridiculous because we are always getting more anyway, and often just using what we just got, so we really don’t need to keep hoarding and hoarding, but we do, we do.

I wonder about the oxygen thing. It’s certainly packed and shipped in airtight packaging, but isn’t it stored after initial processing in large open bins that probably get a lot of oxygen exposure? I’m not sure if short term exposure has any affect on the powder. And if it does, what’s the scientific reasoning behind it? What chemical reaction is taking place? So many questions. I still store it in airtight containers to prevent moisture and oxygen exposure regardless. I may have to experiment with this.

GreenAnimal wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2024 5:19 am I wonder about the oxygen thing. It’s certainly packed and shipped in airtight packaging, but isn’t it stored after initial processing in large open bins that probably get a lot of oxygen exposure? I’m not sure if short term exposure has any affect on the powder. And if it does, what’s the scientific reasoning behind it? What chemical reaction is taking place? So many questions. I still store it in airtight containers to prevent moisture and oxygen exposure regardless. I may have to experiment with this.

There was one guy on Reddit who took the same batch of Kratom and stored it in different conditions for like 6-12 months and found no real difference in potency. One of the batches was even left out in the open on top of a furnace and at least the Mitragynine remained stable.
Here’s the post if interested https://www.reddit.com/r/kratom/comment ... ommercial/

I think the amount of oxygen exposure from opening the bags shouldn’t make a big difference, but idk. The minor alkaloids play a much bigger part than we give credit for IMO and those may or may not be more susceptible to the elements. I wish there was more research on it!

Rambo wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2024 7:46 am There was one guy on Reddit who took the same batch of Kratom and stored it in different conditions for like 6-12 months and found no real difference in potency. One of the batches was even left out in the open on top of a furnace and at least the Mitragynine remained stable.
Here’s the post if interested https://www.reddit.com/r/kratom/comment ... ommercial/

I think the amount of oxygen exposure from opening the bags shouldn’t make a big difference, but idk. The minor alkaloids play a much bigger part than we give credit for IMO and those may or may not be more susceptible to the elements. I wish there was more research on it!

I will check out that link, ty! There definitely needs to be more research. I thought I heard a couple years back that some more detailed studies were being done so I will have to do some digging and check into this.