St.Johns wort and Kratom

[FartBlaster]

Can I take these both? I am taking st Johns in an effort to eliminate ALL psych meds. Would sjw potentiate? As long as it doesn't interfere with it? Does it?

[herbalhippie]

St John's wort is a CYP3A4 inducer, meaning it will cause you to metabolize kratom (and some other drugs) faster.

So, kind of an anti-potentiator.

[herbalhippie]

Also, be very careful spending time in the sun when taking SJW, it's photosensitizing. You'll burn much faster.

[BallzDeep9]

Any question of this kind, the Reddit Knowledge Base should be checked for answers. Here's a LINK

Maybe some day! Right now, we've got maybe 100 actives on MM, compare to > 50,000 on Reddit over five years.... QUOTE

Please note SJW upregulates liver enzymes that break down some drugs in the body. SJW induces the CYP3A4 and CYP1A2 enzymes that degrade some drugs, and induces the P-glycoprotein (which reduces absorption), and has no effect on uridine 5'- diphospho-glucuronosyltransferase (an enzyme that breaks drugs down). Kratom has the most inhibition on CYP3A4 and CYP2D6, moderate inhibition was observed for CYP1A2 (inhibiting enzymes that break drugs down), and weak inhibition was detected for CYP2C19. Mitraphylline inhibits P-glycoprotein pumps (which can increase absorption as a result). Hydroxymitragynine inhibits uridine 5'- diphospho-glucuronosyltransferase metabolism (which likely reduces alkaloid degradation). It is not known whether SJW will predominate and lead to more rapid degradation of kratom alkaloids, however as an educated scientific guess it seems likely kratom is less effectively absorbed and probably metabolized faster in the presence of SJW, but by how much is not known. But that is a guess as they have not been tested side by side.

[FartBlaster]

Thanks for the info , maybe sjw is not a good idea to take

[herbalhippie]

Thanks for the info , maybe sjw is not a good idea to take

Probably not, no.

[KraytomorKraatom?]

I realize this thread is pretty old but I've been reading about this and came here to search for info. I came across a search paper that basically said kratom opioid like effects do not come from mitragynine, but from 7-hydroxymitragynine. To sum it up it they said mitragynine is coverted into the active metabolite 7ohm by an oxidation involved with the CYP3A4 enzyme in the liver. I was curious if this is true would a CYP3A inducer help with this process. It seems contradictory to want to metabolize mitragynine faster or more efficiently but that was what I gathered from it

[Tussenbroek]

I realize this thread is pretty old but I've been reading about this and came here to search for info. I came across a search paper that basically said kratom opioid like effects do not come from mitragynine, but from 7-hydroxymitragynine. To sum it up it they said mitragynine is coverted into the active metabolite 7ohm by an oxidation involved with the CYP3A4 enzyme in the liver. I was curious if this is true would a CYP3A inducer help with this process. It seems contradictory to want to metabolize mitragynine faster or more efficiently but that was what I gathered from it

Lol, I actually read the same paper and wondered the same thing. It looks like experiences regarding people who had both range from “I didn’t notice much of a difference” to one report of “dear god that was a mistake” found here https://drugs-forum.com/threads/st-john ... on.215556/.

I would normally say go for it and see what happens, but something to keep in mind is that Kratom has more psychoactive alkaloids in it other than just mitragynine including ones that work on the serotonin, dopamine, adenosine and adrenal systems. You can probably guess that the increased conversion from mitragynine to 7-hydroxymitragynine is not the only reaction you’ll see, and some of them may really not work well in your favor.

So I’d probably avoid it unless you can come up with some isolated mitragynine, and even then I’d tread lightly. But on a related note, the conversion between mitragynine and 7-hydroxymitragynine also occurs outside the body under oxidizing conditions. Currently leaving a batch open and in the sun to see if I notice anything, but until then, haven’t found anything remarkable.

[The_Kraken]

I read that paper, too, and bought SJW to try it out. It was awful. First, it takes a few days to really get that CYP3A4 activity up, and simply taking SJW messed me up because whatever changes it made to my brain chemistry are not ones I need. I just felt weird and numb. After a few days I started taking my fave kratom strains and they just felt off. That was enough for me.

[brave777]

I read that paper, too, and bought SJW to try it out. It was awful. First, it takes a few days to really get that CYP3A4 activity up, and simply taking SJW messed me up because whatever changes it made to my brain chemistry are not ones I need. I just felt weird and numb. After a few days I started taking my fave kratom strains and they just felt off. That was enough for me.

I drink many herbs and still have SJW, i highly recommend staying away from it and not mix with kratom. I dont know what it is but also made my kratom experience extremely off, i even felt like i got very ill... tried few times long time ago and my body said a big NO. i always try to listen how my body responds, if its a bad respond then you should not do it. kind of like buying a cake, it taste very good but then you feel very ill, or big macs, taste awesome and after done eating you feel ill and lazy. In general i tried it on its own SJW and also didnt like how it tastes like. if it helps someone, more power to them, me personally i will steer far away from it. Few bad experience with it is enough for me.