Double M Herbals | Kratom Forum

What is the fermentation process, and what does it do to the leaves' characteristics?

Is it then called a bent?

I would love to know more about this too!

When I think "fermentation" I think 'moisture, humidity, plant material being tightly sealed and broken down' - all of the things we don't want to happen to our kratom.

Good Question

I've been wanting to know this too! Wouldn't that cause mold to grow like, really quickly? I am familiar with de-carbing(decarboxylation) a different herb so I wonder if that is the same mechanism of breaking down alkaloids and slightly altering them etc.

Maybe someone, like Gumby or Fused!?, will come along and provide more detail but.... The gist of it by my understanding is this:

They place fresh leaf in a clear bag and leave it in some sun for a short while or even a long while to induce fermentation. The reason being is that there is a particular microbe similar to yeast that during the fermentation process will convert some of the mitragynine into the more potent painkilling alkaloid 7-ohm. That fermentation process when allowed to progress is indeed how most bents are created. It's a way of manipulating this amazing plant's alkaloid and effect profile.

Some strains are only lightly fermented and some are heavily fermented. What comes out is highly dependant on many factors including the quality of the starting leaf to begin with, how long it's fermented, how long it stays in the sun, if it's done in the shade, how it's dried, etc etc. There are certainly some REALLY good deep dark Bents out there but I personally tend to prefer lightly fermented strains that haven't been over done as it seems it's quite easy to go to far and end up with a strain that's consequently just okay rather than great. But I will say I've found blending with Bents to be the most effective way of using them for me to usually slow down other strains and add more relief.

IndelibleDotInk wrote:What is the fermentation process, and what does it do to the leaves' characteristics?

Is it then called a bent?

Fermenting is placing the leaves in bags during the drying process. This speeds up the oxidation and converts some of the mitra into 7ohm. However, just like a red in the sun, it is easy to mess up and go too long at which time the 7ohm oxidizes further or transitions to weaker alkaloids. This can be done outdoors or indoors.

For most vendors/suppliers fermented means bentuangie, which is the malay/indo word for fermentation.

For my strains, my golds are fermented greens, yellows are fermented whites, and bent is a fermented red. Obviously this takes a long time to ferment a green and white as the bag doesn't heat up in the sun, but can have great results if done correctly (see reviews for my golds or yellows). Sometimes vendors/suppliers will make a gold as a mix of red/green. Here's a sheet below to show what one particular indo vendor does to make their strains:

I realize you didn't ask, but want to be transparent that not all golds and yellows are fermented, I can only speak to my own.

Mahalo for the info!

Fermentation makes me think of alcohol and kimchi.

fusedflora wrote:

IndelibleDotInk wrote:What is the fermentation process, and what does it do to the leaves' characteristics?

Is it then called a bent?

Fermenting is placing the leaves in bags during the drying process. This speeds up the oxidation and converts some of the mitra into 7ohm. However, just like a red in the sun, it is easy to mess up and go too long at which time the 7ohm oxidizes further or transitions to weaker alkaloids. This can be done outdoors or indoors.

For most vendors/suppliers fermented means bentuangie, which is the malay/indo word for fermentation.

For my strains, my golds are fermented greens, yellows are fermented whites, and bent is a fermented red. Obviously this takes a long time to ferment a green and white as the bag doesn't heat up in the sun, but can have great results if done correctly (see reviews for my golds or yellows). Sometimes vendors/suppliers will make a gold as a mix of red/green. Here's a sheet below to show what one particular indo vendor does to make their strains:

I realize you didn't ask, but want to be transparent that all golds and yellows are fermented, I can only speak to my own.

Thanks for the info Fused!

Thanks BurntEnds and Fused

Sounds like a difficult procedure, and that getting plenty of reviews before purchasing is especially important when finding a good one.

Did anybody notice that all the blends are made using green and red? How can a white be the fastest if it’s made from green and red?

Seanjuan84 wrote:Did anybody notice that all the blends are made using green and red? How can a white be the fastest if it’s made from green and red?

My opinion most times its more green in whites, i also noticed some white have relaxing feeling so there is some red but not much from my experience. what's yall take on it?

brave777 wrote:

Seanjuan84 wrote:Did anybody notice that all the blends are made using green and red? How can a white be the fastest if it’s made from green and red?

My opinion most times its more green in whites, i also noticed some white have relaxing feeling so there is some red but not much from my experience. what's yall take on it?

I would assume that the different drying technique( that bleaches it)for whites is what gives it a faster effect. Whether its placebo or not... the different effects are real to me.

Seanjuan84 wrote:Did anybody notice that all the blends are made using green and red? How can a white be the fastest if it’s made from green and red?

You haven't experienced it? It happens quite often to me. I just experienced it last night, taking some 30 year slow stuff from TFH and a milder red of mine.... Bam fast, even though neither strain was fast to begin with. It's not placebo of a white, its just how the different alkaloids affect us. Lost quite a bit of sleep unintentionally.

My experience is that you can get leaves collected from the same tree, dried just a tad different (both being greens). And one can be fast and one slow, it doesn't take much to change the profile of the leaf, mixing isn't much different.

Another thing is that if one has ever blended, you might have two bunk leaves, but when blended turn into fire of the gods. I've mixed two of my favorite strains and not felt anything as well.

Some vendors dry whites differently (most my whites are a result of the drying process and not the green/red mix). I just shared the chart to demonstrate how "some" indonesian suppliers make their strains. This is not every one of them, but "most" use some variation of it. Don't believe me, just ask, most freely provide it when asked.

Don't forget you're on Double M, and the vendors here are the exception to "most," none of us are as big as OPMS, Urban Ice, etc which move much more Kratom in the US than all of us combined here.

fusedflora wrote:

Seanjuan84 wrote:Did anybody notice that all the blends are made using green and red? How can a white be the fastest if it’s made from green and red?

You haven't experienced it? It happens quite often to me. I just experienced it last night, taking some 30 year slow stuff from TFH and a milder red of mine.... Bam fast, even though neither strain was fast to begin with. It's not placebo of a white, its just how the different alkaloids affect us. Lost quite a bit of sleep unintentionally.

My experience is that you can get leaves collected from the same tree, dried just a tad different (both being greens). And one can be fast and one slow, it doesn't take much to change the profile of the leaf, mixing isn't much different.

Another thing is that if one has ever blended, you might have two bunk leaves, but when blended turn into fire of the gods. I've mixed two of my favorite strains and not felt anything as well.

Some vendors dry whites differently (most my whites are a result of the drying process and not the green/red mix). I just shared the chart to demonstrate how "some" indonesian suppliers make their strains. This is not every one of them, but "most" use some variation of it. Don't believe me, just ask, most freely provide it when asked.

Don't forget you're on Double M, and the vendors here are the exception to "most," none of us are as big as OPMS, Urban Ice, etc which move much more Kratom in the US than all of us combined here.

Thanks Shaun ....love it when you drop Kratom knowledge.