Does Kratom extend withdrawal symptoms of Opiates / Methadon

[Klassik1]

Searching google, I cant find the answer.

I've got a little methadone problem and I want to be free of it.
I know methadone withdrawal is horrendous and LONG.

my question is this: Does Kratom extend withdrawal symptoms of the drug you are wanting to get off of? I heard kratom was an opiate of sorts, wouldnt that extend your opiate withdrawals by taking more opiates?

[Greyfeather]

Welcome to Double M!

I'm sorry, I can't help you with the methadone, but kratom IS NOT an opiate. It is a plant with a very unique chemical structure. Some of its 'chemicals' attach to the same receptors in your brain that also attract opiates. There are many other substances that also do that without being opiates.

I'm sure you will get more useful feedback than mine. Good luck

[beathappening]

If you're able to successfully jump from methadone to kratom, which will be difficult as you have to get really low on the methadone before you'll even be able to feel kratom, it will technically extend withdrawal, but by very little time, and significantly less intensity. Kratom does cause withdrawal somewhat similar to opioids, but nowhere near as severe. It's really not even in the same ballpark as methadone withdrawal, which can take many weeks, whereas kratom takes just a few days. Kratom will definitely be a good tool in your methadone taper plan, but like I said, it won't become noticeable until the very very end, when you're taking almost no methadone (~5mg daily, if that). The main thing it is helpful with is the PAWS (post acute withdrawal syndrome) that is uniquely terrible with methadone, and lasts several more weeks after the actual withdrawal.

I've been there, it's hell. The second worst drug I've ever withdrawn from. It took over a month before I could sleep regularly. I did not have kratom at the time though. There are guides on Reddit to help you jump from opioids to kratom, just use the search bar there. You can do it though, others have done it, it is possible.

Edit: here's the Reddit guide to go from opis to kratom. Print it out, it's useful
https://www.reddit.com/r/kratom/comment ... e_guide_i/

[herbalhippie]

Welcome to the forum!

Kratom is best to be used in place of whatever opioid you're currently using. Taper down as far as you can off the methadone and then start using kratom when you jump off.

Kratom is not an opiate, but it is a partial agonist of the opioid receptors so it would fall under the category of an opioid.

[creatus]

my question is this: Does Kratom extend withdrawal symptoms of the drug you are wanting to get off of? I heard kratom was an opiate of sorts, wouldnt that extend your opiate withdrawals by taking more opiates?

Yes and no. It will extend the duration and decrease the intensity of the withdrawal by making 2 steps instead of 1. Step 1 - off the harder opiate. Step 2 - off the kratom.

It will take time to adjust just at step one. Depending on how long you were using you may still experience some withdrawal-like symptoms but nowhere the severity of not using kratom, or it may take some time for the brain to "get to know" the new supplement.

Kratom is not like any other opiate where you are simply just replacing one opiate with another. Kratom is different. It is like a gateway drug from hard drugs to healthier living. It is a very difficult drug to abuse and somewhat forces the user to learn to regulate in order to get the best effects.

[Klassik1]

Thank you guys for the replies.

I've managed to taper down on methadone already, went all the way from daily, to every other day, to every 2 days... now, I havent taken one In 7 days... But the war in my mind is rough. Difficulty sleeping and joints that cant stop like I need to keep stretching my knees and fingers. Low energy and low spirit.

I'm at this point already and I just dont want to extend it any longer than it takes already as-is.

I am a bit ignorant of Kratom, I heard it was a form of an opiate so I wasnt sure if it would extend the withdrawals or not.

[Klassik1]

From what you guys are saying, it sounds like it does somewhat but it's not as bad atleast.

I was really just afraid of trading one thing for another.

I'll follow those reddit posts, thank you for linking that.
This is tough... the mental aspect is unrelenting. Plus I cant stop supporting my family and just lay around.

Thank you for the help.

[beathappening]

One thing that is really helpful during the PAWS phase, which it sounds like you're in, is exercise. The sleeplessness, fatigue, cravings, it helps with all of them. I know it's not something you probably feel like doing though, I know I didn't feel like doing anything.

What I did was, after a whole night of not sleeping but really wanting to, I'd go to the pool early in the morning and swim laps at a mild-moderate pace for about an hour. Helps with achey joints since it's a low impact exercise. I'd come home after and crash hard, got a great 3 or so hours of sleep, woke up feeling refreshed. It also helps with cravings because exercise gets your brain to release natural endorphins that you desperately need.

There's still no replacement for psychotherapy or some kind of outpatient treatment though. I never was into those anonymous groups but there are other options. Those cravings will never completely go away, the struggle is keeping them in check, but they will weaken in strength and occur less often. It will get easier over time. Kratom will sublimate your need for other opis for sure.

If you've already gone a week off the methadone, you're nearly over the most severe part. The most difficult part though is keeping your concentration and staying sober. Just my experience.

[Klassik1]

Thank you so much for the info and the words of wisdom.

One thing that has me in better spirits is that today was the first day that felt not as bad as the day before... instead of this steady getting worse every day, today wasnt as bad as yesterday. I really hope now this will start to ease off from today on... it's extremely easy for me to get those, or any opioid really so the mental battle with myself is rough.

I just cant get myself back into this mess again. And that's what I'll need to continue to work on.

Today is the end of day 7 without anything, including kratom.
Maybe I'll keep the kratom idea in my back pocket and keep powering through it, and if something comes up in some sort of weird way, I know kratom can help me temporarily.

Thanks for replying - these replies have helped me more than you know. I appreciate it.

[herbalhippie]

Thank you so much for the info and the words of wisdom.

One thing that has me in better spirits is that today was the first day that felt not as bad as the day before... instead of this steady getting worse every day, today wasnt as bad as yesterday. I really hope now this will start to ease off from today on... it's extremely easy for me to get those, or any opioid really so the mental battle with myself is rough.

I just cant get myself back into this mess again. And that's what I'll need to continue to work on.

Today is the end of day 7 without anything, including kratom.
Maybe I'll keep the kratom idea in my back pocket and keep powering through it, and if something comes up in some sort of weird way, I know kratom can help me temporarily.

Thanks for replying - these replies have helped me more than you know. I appreciate it.

You are doing great! Congratulations!

[K-Dawg]

Thank you so much for the info and the words of wisdom.

One thing that has me in better spirits is that today was the first day that felt not as bad as the day before... instead of this steady getting worse every day, today wasnt as bad as yesterday. I really hope now this will start to ease off from today on... it's extremely easy for me to get those, or any opioid really so the mental battle with myself is rough.

I just cant get myself back into this mess again. And that's what I'll need to continue to work on.

Today is the end of day 7 without anything, including kratom.
Maybe I'll keep the kratom idea in my back pocket and keep powering through it, and if something comes up in some sort of weird way, I know kratom can help me temporarily.

Thanks for replying - these replies have helped me more than you know. I appreciate it.

Wow, congrats!! I have had to kick methadone as well and I know what you're going through. Meep going strong and if you feel the urge, take some kratom! I'm here if you need anything.

[Somethingsacred]

I don’t have a solid answer because I don’t know if it does extend WD or not , but every personal account I’ve read that’s been written on this subject touts kratom as the great medium to get off the hard stuff at a lowered or diminished discomforting level ... methadone I have heard gets stored in your bones and detox from it is much slower and drawn out versus others opiates, making this more challenging to someone detoxing ...

Here’s a link that might be helpful ,

http://www.ilovekratom.com/kratom-news- ... to-opiates

doesn’t answer your question but night boost your hope inknowimg that it can be done. Some folks don’t like and or have a negative view of the forum I’ve been a member of for a while now .. but “I love kratom “ is positive and helpful .. as is double m herbals ...

Feel free to search the older posts of folks getting off of suboxin or methadone with the help of kratom . I’ll try and find these and post them hear .

The link is to a article that may help .. either way I’m happy that you sound ready to do this .

My personal thoughts and learned info is that
kratom touches some of the same receptor sites as classic opiates do but not in the same way as turning the key and locking into them... like a glove on a hand ... kratom is more like the glove resting on top of the hand ..

PAWS perhaps happens to certain chemistry types . Some more prone to them then others , but having taken many pain meds in my life , kratom for me is substantially more sustainable and healthy to have a regimen with ..

It’s not going to be a walk in the park I assume , but kratom can make it bearable and once detox is done, very enjoyable and rewarding in a diff way .

Best you can expect from it while detoxing is less WD and from what I’ve heard .. feeling normal I’m a sense ... once your receptors have been cleansed of methadone .. all of the more nuanced effects will be felt ....

I was on 10mg norco , 40-70 mg a day ..for over 2 years , and always welcomed most opiates into my life ... kratom for me is relieving of chronic pain and kills 100% of any desire to take opiates ..

Big diff between norcos and methadone ...but knowing it can be done , has been done ... might reassure you that doing this with kratom , is much better and a lessoned struggle than doing without !


Good luck !!! make sure you have plenty of quality kratom on hand from trusted vendors ..

getting off of kratom will be significantly easier than methadone .. if that’s the goal .. personally I have no intention of stopping .. I’ve switched pain meds , antidepressants and anti anxiety med for kratom ... it’s night and day the relief I get without the side effects and consequences of meds ..

Thinking the best for you !!

[creatus]

Today is the end of day 7 without anything, including kratom.
Maybe I'll keep the kratom idea in my back pocket and keep powering through it, and if something comes up in some sort of weird way, I know kratom can help me temporarily.

Thanks for replying - these replies have helped me more than you know. I appreciate it.

Seriously - Good for you! It gets easier! I'd say your approach to have kratom only if needed is ideal.

[Klassik1]

Just wanting to report back - yesterday, I was still low energy and didnt feel like doing much of anything but I had stuff I had to do.

I tried 5 "000" size kratom capsules....
WOW

Energy: great
Mood: great
Headaches gone
Slept way easier
Overall amazing.... took care of everything and had all day lasting energy.

I'm just putting this here just incase anyone else is going through withdrawal. I still feel very low energy and sneezing 100 times a day (2 weeks in now without methadone).... I dont want to start taking kratom every day(although how much better I felt it's hard to resist lol but I'm determined to get back to normal without use of substance), but if you've got stuff you've absolutely got to do, I'm blown away. 100% felt better... I thank you guys for filling me in on the info. Hope this helps someone else also.

[beathappening]

If you're actually able to feel the positive benefits of kratom, then congratulations, you're over the hump. There will still be some mildly annoying symptoms (see: PAWS https://www.hazeldenbettyford.org/artic ... l-syndrome ) but the worst is over. PAWS is quite relentless and many an addict have relapsed during this period. Many people think once the dopesick part of withdrawal is over, you're in the clear...but not quite. I remember my least favorite symptoms were incessant yawning/runny nose, constant fatigue/joint pain, and that simultaneous hot and cold sensation, and worst of all depression hanging over all of it, which is exacerbated by difficulty sleeping, which even OTC sleep aids don't do much for. Diarrhea and stomach discomfort is aided by Imodium/loperamide, just don't over do it! The recommended daily dose is apt.

It gets easier as time goes on. Exercise and healthy diet helps for sure. If it becomes unbearable, you're better off dosing kratom and then anything else. I don't consider taking kratom during withdrawal or PAWS to be a relapse, but that's just me.

But just know you're through the thick of it, and that should give you motivation to keep powering through. You're doing awesome!

[Lambeezy]

Ultimately you will end up having to get off kratom. But it will be much much easier. I would use kratom for about 5 weeks and then jump off. Maybe a taper at the end.

[beathappening]

I have jumped off kratom at 20+ grams per day, very short taper. It's not exactly comfortable, but compared to heroin, methadone, oxycodone, morphine etc etc it's a walk in the park. It also lasts a fraction of the time as real opiates. For me the thought of withdrawing from kratom was scarier than the actual process of it. 2-3 days and it's over, and the paws wasn't even bad either

[K-Dawg]

If you're actually able to feel the positive benefits of kratom, then congratulations, you're over the hump. There will still be some mildly annoying symptoms (see: PAWS https://www.hazeldenbettyford.org/artic ... l-syndrome ) but the worst is over. PAWS is quite relentless and many an addict have relapsed during this period. Many people think once the dopesick part of withdrawal is over, you're in the clear...but not quite. I remember my least favorite symptoms were incessant yawning/runny nose, constant fatigue/joint pain, and that simultaneous hot and cold sensation, and worst of all depression hanging over all of it, which is exacerbated by difficulty sleeping, which even OTC sleep aids don't do much for. Diarrhea and stomach discomfort is aided by Imodium/loperamide, just don't over do it! The recommended daily dose is apt.

It gets easier as time goes on. Exercise and healthy diet helps for sure. If it becomes unbearable, you're better off dosing kratom and then anything else. I don't consider taking kratom during withdrawal or PAWS to be a relapse, but that's just me.

But just know you're through the thick of it, and that should give you motivation to keep powering through. You're doing awesome!

After the methadone clinic days PAWS Was annoying but not debilitating. Exercise and positive vibes can kick PAWSs ass! This is a small price to pay for taking strong opioids for such a long time. All part of homeostasis. We wish you the best OP!