Double M Herbals | Kratom Forum

Hi all, I am a new user to the forum, used to sample
Vendors from here a couple of years ago, and I have been burning regularly for about 5-6 years.
I’m so desperate to get good leaf. I haven’t had good leaf in almost two years. Yet I keep trying and trying all The vendors I find on here and reddit with incredible
Reviews of fuzzies and warmth and reminiscent of 2016 leaf, but it never is. Did all the good kratom
Just get picked and it’s gone? Was kratom
Commonly adulterated in 2015-16 and that’s why the quality was so much better?

Sorry if I sound negative. I’ve taken week long tolerance breaks btw. Just looking for some advice.

How often do you use Kratom.....What is your average serving size.....What vendors and strains have you used....?? This info as well as others would be additionally helpful to give you more solid advice or opinions. There has been an incredibly huge amount of top notch leaf from various different vendors over the last 2 years especially the last 6 to 9 months I'd say!! I wonder if somehow you just didn't stumble upon the right ones. Or maybe it's a interaction with other supplements/medications?? Idk just brainstorming here a bit really in order to help assist in getting to the bottom of things.

Welcome to the forum by the way!!! Please feel free to give me a shout if ya ever need help with anything.

I am going to try and PM you, not sure if I am able to yet.

BurnBarrel wrote:I am going to try and PM you, not sure if I am able to yet.

Looks like you have 7 posts so you should be able to PM....must have 5 posts minimum

acejestyr15 wrote:How often do you use Kratom.... What is your average serving size.... What vendors and strains have you used... ?? This info as well as others would be additionally helpful ...

Exactly. We see posts here & on Reddit daily complaining about kratom, not feelin' the leaf, bad quality, etc.. the OP never gives details, I'm starting to think most of the time, it's a personal problem of some kind ?? Lots of folks with opioid / history, or just plain abusing the kratom? Taking too much kratom, WILL reduce the effect of kratom! In that case... it's not a quality problem.

Not saying that's him... just a general observation. Many people all over Facebook, rave about very AVERAGE kratom: Head shop stuff, Remarkable Herbs, leaf we know is imported in huge bulk loads.. People think it's great!!

Quality must be a Normal Distribution, unless proven otherwise... Most "Good Average Kratom" is still good?

Right, but even if it's a normal distribution the mean of quality can change.

I kept one of my favorite batches from 2016. Bought maybe 20kg that year, so it's not like I was lacking in choices either. Truthfully some of the recent kratom I've found is equal or better.

I've had the same issue too and feeling pretty salty about it also. I've genuinely entertained withdrawing and giving it up. Tired of taking the hype train to Disappointmentville. There's a few names I see here that I'm in the process of trying or waiting on. I hope they work out because I really don't want to have to wade through Discord. I trust the established members here saying good leaf is still around.

leafhopper wrote:I've had the same issue too and feeling pretty salty about it also. I've genuinely entertained withdrawing and giving it up. Tired of taking the hype train to Disappointmentville.

I couldn’t have said it better myself!!!
I have pounds of Kratom flavored sawdust that does absolutely nothing for me

HoagsObject wrote:

leafhopper wrote:I've had the same issue too and feeling pretty salty about it also. I've genuinely entertained withdrawing and giving it up. Tired of taking the hype train to Disappointmentville.

I couldn’t have said it better myself!!!
I have pounds of Kratom flavored sawdust that does absolutely nothing for me

Okay Hoag, in other comments you were paying 200 dollars until last year. (2019) that was worth that price, if you actually started when you claim to( 2011-2012) that means the kratom you were paying for would have a decrease in quality since 2011, if it's as bad as you guys claim, you would have been looking for a new vendor and not paying 200 a kilo for it last year. This makes absolutely no sense?

CatfatherB wrote:

HoagsObject wrote:

leafhopper wrote:I've had the same issue too and feeling pretty salty about it also. I've genuinely entertained withdrawing and giving it up. Tired of taking the hype train to Disappointmentville.

I couldn’t have said it better myself!!!
I have pounds of Kratom flavored sawdust that does absolutely nothing for me

Okay Hoag, in other comments you were paying 200 dollars until last year. (2019) that was worth that price, if you actually started when you claim to( 2011-2012) that means the kratom you were paying for would have a decrease in quality since 2011, if it's as bad as you guys claim, you would have been looking for a new vendor and not paying 200 a kilo for it last year. This makes absolutely no sense?

You must not understand. Let me clarify. I was paying $200 a kilo for top shelf Fire Kratom up until last year when I switched to other vendors. For the first 8 years 90% of the Kratom I bought was top shelf fire. I only started getting bunk Kratom in 2019. The Kratom flavoured sawdust is all the bunk stuff I’ve got over the last year.

I, like you, am tired of “taking the hype train to dissapointment-ville”. So much so that I have also considered giving up Kratom forever. Though I might not now that my TFH got delivered today. Hope that clears that up. Have A Great Day

That's a shame. The best kratom I've got in my collection is all from 2019. Well, and some TFH from this year.

Who were you paying $200 a kilo for, if you don’t mind my asking?

Burninator wrote:Who were you paying $200 a kilo for, if you don’t mind my asking?

I've only seen that once, and it was not a quality vendor. Don't remember the name, though. It was more of a spam email thing.

You must not understand. Let me clarify. I was paying $200 a kilo for top shelf Fire Kratom up until last year when I switched to other vendors. For the first 8 years 90% of the Kratom I bought was top shelf fire. I only started getting bunk Kratom in 2019. The Kratom flavoured sawdust is all the bunk stuff I’ve got over the last year.

I, like you, am tired of “taking the hype train to dissapointment-ville”. So much so that I have also considered giving up Kratom forever. Though I might not now that my TFH got delivered today. Hope that clears that up. Have A Great Day

It feels bunk to you because you were buying enhanced leaf, 99% sure of it. No one is selling a $200 kilo unless there is extract involved.

Deleted by author

burnmaster3000 wrote:

You must not understand. Let me clarify. I was paying $200 a kilo for top shelf Fire Kratom up until last year when I switched to other vendors. For the first 8 years 90% of the Kratom I bought was top shelf fire. I only started getting bunk Kratom in 2019. The Kratom flavoured sawdust is all the bunk stuff I’ve got over the last year.

I, like you, am tired of “taking the hype train to dissapointment-ville”. So much so that I have also considered giving up Kratom forever. Though I might not now that my TFH got delivered today. Hope that clears that up. Have A Great Day

It feels bunk to you because you were buying enhanced leaf, 99% sure of it. No one is selling a $200 kilo unless there is extract involved.

I was thinking that maybe I was getting extract laced leaf back in the old days. I tried TFH yesterday and no longer think so.

I was a little skeptical about TFH at first, but I tried some killer TFH Super Green yesterday and now I’m a convert. TFH is comparable in quality to what I used to get from my old vendor. Actually I like TFH better, it feels “cleaner” if that makes sense.

HoagsObject wrote:

burnmaster3000 wrote:

You must not understand. Let me clarify. I was paying $200 a kilo for top shelf Fire Kratom up until last year when I switched to other vendors. For the first 8 years 90% of the Kratom I bought was top shelf fire. I only started getting bunk Kratom in 2019. The Kratom flavoured sawdust is all the bunk stuff I’ve got over the last year.

I, like you, am tired of “taking the hype train to dissapointment-ville”. So much so that I have also considered giving up Kratom forever. Though I might not now that my TFH got delivered today. Hope that clears that up. Have A Great Day

It feels bunk to you because you were buying enhanced leaf, 99% sure of it. No one is selling a $200 kilo unless there is extract involved.

I was thinking that maybe I was getting extract laced leaf back in the old days. I tried TFH yesterday and no longer think so.

I was a little skeptical about TFH at first, but I tried some killer TFH Super Green yesterday and now I’m a convert. TFH is comparable in quality to what I used to get from Kratomxp.com. Actually I like TFH better, it feels “cleaner” if that makes sense.

Happy for you! TFH does feel cleaner. It is my favorite vendor out of all the ones I've tried since 2016. They care a lot about the whole processing and growing of kratom.

Plus they only sell batches that are user approved.

Burninator wrote:Who were you paying $200 a kilo for, if you don’t mind my asking?

Just yesterday I got an email from PDO Botanicals. $250 for a kilo of Green Cambodian MD.

Burninator wrote:Who were you paying $200 a kilo for, if you don’t mind my asking?

I have spent time wandering around the internet looking at some of the big fancy herbal sites (can't even remember the names, sorry). It seemed pretty common to see prices like $129.00 for HALF a key. I don't know where I'd be without DoubleM, and I hope we never lose it.

RumRunner wrote:

Burninator wrote:Who were you paying $200 a kilo for, if you don’t mind my asking?

Just yesterday I got an email from PDO Botanicals. $250 for a kilo of Green Cambodian MD.

Just dropped by their website out of curiosity. They stopped using the most popular pay method?? That seems kind of fishy, imo

Greyfeather wrote:

Burninator wrote:Who were you paying $200 a kilo for, if you don’t mind my asking?

I have spent time wandering around the internet looking at some of the big fancy herbal sites (can't even remember the names, sorry). It seemed pretty common to see prices like $129.00 for HALF a key. I don't know where I'd be without DoubleM, and I hope we never lose it.

I think many are stuck in stone age. thats pre 2016 prices, i remember i spend plenty on mmmspeciaosa, i mean it was good kratom but there is plenty good kratom here under 100$ mark. Their crushed baik bali from mmmm was priceless, and i still got some of that saved only for special occasions. From what i understand they milled crushed leaf into powder and sold it but one time they were getting rid of all kratom thinking 2016 is the end of kratom. i had a chance to grab some crushed leaf, man and i had to pay over draft for it too... what a desperate times it was. The fear levels were unreal too.

they have milled crushed leaf 74.99 for 250 grams, https://www.mmmspeciosa.com/bulk-produc ... -250g.html i mean i dont know if its still extremely good but back then to me it was gold. man you could get a kilo now for 75$, triple the price... But if you buy 4 250gram bags it turns out to be 220$ with discounts, so a kilo for 220$. I mean if the original poster looking for something that use to be good, he might want to go check them out. I dont know if suppliers changed over time or quality dropped from them? i just saying how it was in 2016.. you take your own risks

So I've tried many 2015/2016 batches, and the one thing I can see, both from lab and personal/tester testing is that no, it's not any better then than now, just different.

Personally, I feel it was good, because I was in the honeymoon phase. I'd be hard pressed to find something that actually didn't work... But those same batches today aren't necessarily superior to today's.

Another thing I perhaps think it is, is exposure. Back when I was starting, though my body hadn't developed a tolerance, I was no yet seasoned enough to really tell a difference in a good burn and a spectacular one. Similar to me starting drinking, I used to swear Jack Daniels was just the most wonderful whiskey, but now my tastes are much different, as I've tried hundreds more. Though I still appreciate a some Jack, I don't have the same feelings towards it as I once did. I think a lot of people don't think about the exposure, it's not the same as tolerance.....