Double M Herbals | Kratom Forum

So I can't seem to find my sweet spot. Some days I can take 3.5 grams and feel it great then other days I get up to like 7-8 grams and barely feel anything. I first I just though that maybe I've been going through a bad batch or company. So I decided to try botanical bunnies white dyak which has some good reviews on here. I'm up to 6 grams right now and barely feel anything.

I will say though I did used to take pain killers but not every day. Usually it was on the weekends only with either 120mg if oxy. Or 300mg of extended release morphine. Do you think since I had to take so much painkillers to feel them that it's the same with kratom?

What do you guys do to find your sweet spot? How long did it take you to find it? Right now I'm only dosing kratom about 4-5 days a week (started a month ago). And just can't seem to find it. I've tried starting lower and higher. Just wish I could find that right amount so I can stop guessing Everytime. Any help would be greatly appreciated!!

Charzilla138 wrote:So I can't seem to find my sweet spot. Some days I can take 3.5 grams and feel it great then other days I get up to like 7-8 grams and barely feel anything. I first I just though that maybe I've been going through a bad batch or company. So I decided to try botanical bunnies white dyak which has some good reviews on here. I'm up to 6 grams right now and barely feel anything.

I will say though I did used to take pain killers but not every day. Usually it was on the weekends only with either 120mg if oxy. Or 300mg of extended release morphine. Do you think since I had to take so much painkillers to feel them that it's the same with kratom?

What do you guys do to find your sweet spot? How long did it take you to find it? Right now I'm only dosing kratom about 4-5 days a week (started a month ago). And just can't seem to find it. I've tried starting lower and higher. Just wish I could find that right amount so I can stop guessing Everytime. Any help would be greatly appreciated!!

i'm in the same boat lol i've taken 5-8 gram doses since i started pretty much (although never more than once a day for me) but i see "less is more" everywhere so i'd like to experiment with that forsure as sometimes it hits hard and other times nothing. i always dose right in the morning on an empty stomach it seems to hit much harder for me at least. interested to see some of the replies.. you should try sosas reds if you can get through to him, i think that is what you are looking for. if not smiley/tfh/liza all have pretty strong reds.

I have felt that too and still do sometimes. I was addicted to heroin/oxy for 10 years before getting clean 3 years ago. There are days I feel less is more and can work with a 2.4 gram dose for several hours. Then other days I’ll end up having to do 6 grams because it’s not hitting me. I have been in the process of lowering my dose and try to stick with dosing 3-4 times a day. I’m not on any psych meds or medication that would interfere. One week before I had my monthly menstrual, sorry if that’s tmi, but I hardly felt any of my doses and I had several different strains going! So I think it’s just the nature of the plant and our bodies chemistry. Some parts of the plant material could be inconsistent maybe like contain less alkaloids than others parts of the bag?? These are thoughts I’ve dwelled on recently and I’m no expert but it would be nice to hear someone who really understands and knows! Unless it’s just the way Kratom is with our bodies!

Cbest011 wrote: I was addicted to heroin/oxy for 10 years before getting clean 3 years ago ... I think it’s just the nature of the plant and our bodies chemistry.

Most of the ex heroin addicts I know, can't feel kratom much they just laugh & roll their eyes They want a FULL agonist at the µ-opioid receptor; NOT a weak little partial agonist like kratom!!

Kratom is not a "drug" and kratom won't get us too "high" really, even tho its sold as a Legal high product in head-shops and gas stations.. Sure we enjoy a good feeling, some mild euphoria and mild pain relief etc. Key word = mild And.. another Key to understanding? No matter HOW much kratom we do... it's STILL a partial agonist. Good news, you can't O-D, but.. a bigger dose, still won't cover your receptors. Less is More.

I agree with you, nature of the plant! Sorry for the bad news. Yes we all want kratom to be.. stronger, better, longer lasting. But! Unfortunately taking more & more will not do that.. Unlike a "drug", taking more kratom only gives more negative side effects ~ brain fog, adrenal fatigue, constipation... Sedation. Sedation is a side effect of taking too much kratom? But some people want or need that so.. that's one reason for large doses I guess?

Anyway here's the Wikipedia Link I posted the other day. Someone got mad when I tried to explain "kratom is kratom" and it's never gonna be a FULL agonist at your µ Receptor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%9C-opioid_receptor

@Cbest011

One week before I had my monthly menstrual, sorry if that’s tmi, but I hardly felt any of my doses and I had several different strains going!

Ha! Pffft! It had better not be 'too much information' . We are all grown ups here, and if certain bodily realities make people uncomfortable...... well, the kid's table is over there

In all of my searches I haven't seen enough info about how kratom affects women, in particular. And this is the exact same reason that Lupus went unremarked for so long: it primarily affects women (especially Black and Asian women). There are other auto-immune diseases that still don't have good diagnosis parameters and reliable treatment courses for the same reason. Heart disease: the symptoms differ for females. Women's endocrine research is downright pathetic, imo. Personally, I would love to see more topics like "I'm a woman experiencing [fill in black] with my kratom use. Anyone else out there?" And if anyone is bothered by this, I doubt that Double M is likely to become too feminine (or femme) to be cool, lol

Double M will always be cool
I hope this doesn't sound rant-ish. Yes, I'm a child of second wave feminism

Charzilla138 wrote:So I can't seem to find my sweet spot. Some days I can take 3.5 grams and feel it great then other days I get up to like 7-8 grams and barely feel anything. I first I just though that maybe I've been going through a bad batch or company. So I decided to try botanical bunnies white dyak which has some good reviews on here. I'm up to 6 grams right now and barely feel anything.

I will say though I did used to take pain killers but not every day. Usually it was on the weekends only with either 120mg if oxy. Or 300mg of extended release morphine. Do you think since I had to take so much painkillers to feel them that it's the same with kratom?

What do you guys do to find your sweet spot? How long did it take you to find it? Right now I'm only dosing kratom about 4-5 days a week (started a month ago). And just can't seem to find it. I've tried starting lower and higher. Just wish I could find that right amount so I can stop guessing Everytime. Any help would be greatly appreciated!!

I've had this same problem, and I've never abused pain killers. I've maybe had two vicodin in my life.

IMO this is a kratom problem and not a ruined-my-tolerance-with-painkillers problem.

I had to chase the dragon to learn that I need stop chasing the dragon. I was up over 10g per dose and then worked my way down to 2-4g doses, which I think are more consistent and just as potent.

Ballz,

Thank you for that info! I totally get more out of it when I do less, and since it is a partial agonist that makes a lot of sense. It reminds me of suboxone how it had that ceiling effect, but of course still not the same substance. Kratom is wonderful and I am thankful for it and how it is a partial agonist. It would be more controlling of me if it were a full agonist. I feel a sense of control when it comes to Kratom so thank you again for that because it can be easy to get carried away with attempting to use more and more each dose.

Greyfeather,

I have noticed since I’ve started using Kratom back in February, anytime I’m coming up on my monthly, doses aren’t very consistent! But once I start they’re fine, especially with the pain relief. Oh my, it has been a life saver in that. Also with the energy too. Also I was born with an adrenal insufficiency too so my endocrine system is already whacked! Sometimes I wonder if that affects it also, I take prednisone and fludrocortisone for it. But I’ve looked into and haven’t seen anything alarming! I started out with head shop Kratom, and that actually made me feel thrown off and I had no appetite on it. Which for my condition is not safe, so I was weak feeling and nauseous a lot. Thank goodness for online vendors!
Sorry I’m rambling, on break at work, feeling great!

BallzDeep9 wrote:

Cbest011 wrote:
Kratom is not a "drug" and kratom won't get us too "high" really

Lol Ballz always pumpin out "facts"
Is marijuana a drug?

Thank you guys for the replys! So I tried two different strains from botanical bunny yesterday and both made me sick in the 5-6g range. Lol. So I'm starting to think that first company I went through just had really inconsistent quality. I'm going to start off small at 2gs today and see how it goes!

Im starting to realize too that maybe I am trying to 'chase the dragon' too much! I think my problem was when I took pain killers it was very infrequently so I never had a big tollerence and could take the same amount everytime I took it. I need to realize with this plant that sometimes you can take the same amount and not get the same effects. Just gotta accept that I guess.

For me sometimes it's a matter of trying almost every possible dose. Down to such an absurd level of minutia that it might even relate to the placebo effect. I swear though, some of my favorite batches work well almost every time at a super specific dose (3.6g, 4.3g, varies from batch to batch) but if it's .1-.2g off I can tell a difference. It's like 5% difference in dose quantity but a day vs night difference in effect. Getting a scale with centigram measurement helped.

Charzilla138 wrote: I need to realize with this plant that sometimes you can take the same amount and not get the same effects. Just gotta accept that I guess.

Couldn't be more accurate with that line.
Kratom is an amazing plant/substance or whatever people choose to categorize it as to feel good. But the statement about taking the same amount and not getting the same effect couldn't be more true and a normal situation for most people who partake. Its beyond fickle and yet to be fully understood. The one thing we are all in agreement on is that there are soooooo many outside factors that help determine how each and every dose will effect you. Sleep, diet, stress, dose size, empty or full stomach, time between doses, time of day, tolerance and probably a lot more than any of us are aware of.
With synthetic pain killers those same outside factors don't effect us near as much because they are full agonist.
Being that i spent 5 solid years of my life abusing prescription pain meds (unfortunately) i can promise you that it is not fact that everyone in that boat blew out there receptors, or whatever that theory is i see floating around from time to time. I'm sure its happened to some, i cant speak for everyone else. But i can speak for myself. Kratom heavily effects me (in a great way)
When taking Kratom from quality vendors i get a far better overall "feeling" "burn" "high" "relief" "well being" "mood lift" or whatever people want to call it so its politically correct, than i did on synthetic pain killers. Which is why it was so easy for me to ditch the life sucking prescription opiate pain killers after 5 years of abuse. Kratom is a life saver (literally) for a ton of us. And i know im not the only one who considers the feeling off of top shelf kratom to be better than prescription pain killers. And far healthier on many levels. Especially the fact that theres clearly a ceiling on kratom unlike synthetic meds.
Your dose size is definitely not something somebody else can tell you tho. Its definitely about understanding all of the outside factors i listed and then adjusting your dose over and over until it feels perfect for you

zachdank wrote:lol Ballz always pumpin out "facts" ... Is marijuana a drug?

I got the "drug" quote from AKA.. Natural kratom powder, should not be classified as a drug... to keep it legal?

IMO weed should not be a "narcotic".. Vote Joe Biden. Part of the Democrat platform, would de-criminalize marijuana.

Pure extracts, THC or Mitragyna... are drugs. Made in a Lab. I've done the O-D on THC and it's not fun!

zachdank wrote: When taking Kratom from quality vendors i get a far better overall "feeling" "burn" "high" "relief" "well being" "mood lift" or whatever people want to call it so its politically correct, than i did on synthetic pain killers.

This is so true! While sure pain killers made me feel "higher" it usually was also accompanied with foggy thoughts, nodding, nonstop itching, and forgetting what I did. Honestly when I get a good burn from kratom it's way better than any pain killer high I've had. Also painkillers would make me feel numb, physically and emotionally. With kratom I can get those waves of euphoria without that numbness. Which to me is great! I just gotta keep working in finding that sweet spot!

I agree Charzilla! You get more numbed out on the other stuff! I just posted on another topic this, but Kratom lets me still feel like me. Whereas opiates made me a shell of who I am. I had no personality, didn’t even have a hobby or interests apart from getting high. And there are so many factors like what zachdank mentioned, diet and supplements too will affect it. Personally for me I’m still narrowing my doses down. I’m around 3g and with some strains that’s perfect, others, I need a little more. It keeps it lively for sure, trying to find that right zone haha. I was getting frustrated at first because I thought I needed more and more, but Kratom stops working after so much! Who would’ve thought?! But as in lower my doses my tolerance has been lowering too so we shall see where I end up! Good luck and don’t get frustrated like I did!

I'd actually posted most of what follows in another section, but thought it might be applicable here, so here goes:

I've been using Kratom for around 1.5 years, and in terms of it being a useful/enjoyable substance, it's been (and continues to be) one of the most interesting "journeys" I've ever had. And it took me a long time to find my "sweet spot", cuz I just kept taking too much. But a couple of months ago, I really got something through my head that helped me: almost all Kratom in smallish doses (2-3.5g), except for perhaps the most sedating reds and some plain ol' bunk is at least somewhat stimulating for me in a really nice way. I think that's largely due to my body chem: when I used to take percocet (I have 9 herniated discs in my back and neck, spinal stenosis, arthritis, and a couple of other little spine issues), I learned early on that a very small amount sort of perked me up but also sufficiently tricked my mind into providing sufficient pain relief. If I took more (and I'm not talking about a lot; my usual dose was around 5mg with a 2.5 mg "booster" 2x per day; a lot for me was like 10-12.5 mg 2-3x per day), I'd inevitably feel nauseous and sedated. But at a low-to-moderate dose, it was almost like a good focusing med for me.

It's pretty much the same thing for me with Kratom. Any decent-to-good kratom seems to provide me with some degree of pain relief (which is why I originally started taking it); however, there's no doubt that in terms of mood/psychotropic properties, some Kratom works for me waaaaay better than others. Favorite vendors, btw: Botanical Bunny, Smiley, and more recently, TFH, which is probably my favorite of all, not only in terms of the product, but also for the extremely warm and personal service they provide. I've tried lots of "strains" from these vendors and others and when they click, as many do, the mood component is pretty amazing, even if I'm surely well past the "honeymoon phase", and the pain relief is really notable. I'm not somebody who's looking to totally eradicate their pain with any kind of meds or herbs; the cost in terms of how I feel is way too high. I can deal with some pain and still work hard, take fast walks, light jogs, carry stuff, have sex, etc. Kratom has become my favorite way to deal with my back and neck....I have not touched a single perc since I started using it, which is amazing for me.

People also sometimes have what's called a "paradoxical effect" to certain meds; if that's common knowledge here, please don't take offense, I'm still pretty new to Double M. I've taken various things over the years (I'm nearly 60 y/o) that behave differently in my system than what they're reputed to do, not just percocet. My wife is similar with certain things, if she takes a valium, she can't sleep and starts bouncing off the walls (so she doesn't try it anymore ) . To me, however; my experience with Kratom isn't really paradoxical, but just consistent: smallish doses (2-3.5 grams) of many greens and whites I've tried make me feel "up" and pretty great (and sometimes a tiny bit jittery, though I don't really mind that so much if there's energy that accompanies it), and more recently small doses of certain reds behave pretty similarly, though I do find that they eventually become a little on the sedating side (and I do stay away from truly "slow" reds.....as I get older I fall asleep easily enough!). And there's no doubt that I've had much better overall experiences from the vendors that I mentioned above (and earlier on with Kats as well), and that there are really notable differences from strain to strain, even though the novelty of trying a new one seems to also go a long way.

It's really an interesting plant/leaf, though. I recently picked up what seems to be the most "serious" book on the science of it, but it's definitely a dry and not-easy read so I haven't yet really dug into it. I think that the fact that Kratom inspires us to post about it in this way speaks volumes about it. But the bottom line is that for me, when I'm using good kratom, it's an extremely helpful and enjoyable experience on many levels, and I've really learned to be as frugal as I can be with it (though I do use nearly every day) because it just works better for me that way, both for pain and mood.