Them who shall not be named

[LeafersonJr32]

Them who shall not be named, you guys know who im talking about: The government agency that despises our community and will never ever stop trying to restrict and ultimately take our freedom to consume the leaf that provides us with great quality of life. I see alot of people on here use the word euphoria on here and honestly every time I do it makes me cringe because I already know from years of watching them use every time someone says something like that about kratom they turn around and use it against the kratom community. I guarantee you at some point if not already they will be taking anecdotes from this very forum like they have from reddit and others for years. All im saying is please just think about that everything you say and portray about kratom on here that makes it sound in anyway that makes it sound like it gives you a sort of buzz or high will only push them one step closer to being able to convince people that it is some sort of drug that people shouldnt want the public or their children to have access to.

[CatfatherB]

Dude, quit opening up those AKA emails...
The handcuffs were a little cringey..

[LeafersonJr32]

Dude, quit opening up those AKA emails...
The handcuffs were a little cringey..

Say what you want man, but the war on kratom is as active now as ever.

[LeafersonJr32]

All im saying is that portraying kratom as a substance being used to get a recreational buzz is only fueling the fire.

[TheStanman]

I do think people on this forum recently have been a bit too optimistic about the legal state of kratom. Yes it's not as dire as it was and we've had some (very limited) positive press, but things can change fast, especially at the local level. Heck, people are still being arrested for kratom in some parts of the US right now.

I'm cautiously optimistic, but don't think we should be celebrating victory quite yet.

To the OP, I agree words like euphoria are not helping our cause. But I'm also not that concerned as I think it's relatively small in the grand scheme of things.

[the_spookiest]

i wish there was a way to flag certain words when being used here. its one thing to say things via PM or in a casual chat. the E word, nod, etc.

[herbalhippie]

i wish there was a way to flag certain words when being used here. its one thing to say things via PM or in a casual chat. the E word, nod, etc.

I feel like doing this would be leading us down the path of a certain sub known for heavy moderation. Don't compare kratom's effects to the effects from hard drugs. Don't talk about the bad side of kratom use. etc etc etc

Our platform on r/kratomm is no censorship, or only when absolutely necessary, and light moderation. Same thing here.

[SanPedroLover]

If they want to bust you for Kratom then they will find a way to make it happen. Did anyone ever hear about what happened to Matthew from Nomad Botanicals?

https://darknetlive.com/post/kratom-sel ... in-prison/

[KurtisCards]

what i don't get about no saying things about mood lift, or recreational effect, is that alcohol is used that way, so is weed, nicotine, hell even caffeine.

I think if there is ever a heavy push for ban or scheduling it really won't come down to things like that, and they will just make it happen, regardless of how people talk about it.

Plus you really can stop all the crazy people on places like /quittingkratom lol

[mitragy9]

what i don't get about no saying things about mood lift, or recreational effect, is that alcohol is used that way, so is weed, nicotine, hell even caffeine.

I think if there is ever a heavy push for ban or scheduling it really won't come down to things like that, and they will just make it happen, regardless of how people talk about it.

Plus you really can stop all the crazy people on places like /quittingkratom lol

This, there is nothing wrong with euphoria or moodlift. Kratom provides that to a lot of people hence why its widely used very often. Kratom gives a very nice buzz for what it is, I think its important to be honest about kratom and it's effects being dishonest about it is what the gov agencies will use against this community.

[TheStanman]

what i don't get about no saying things about mood lift, or recreational effect, is that alcohol is used that way, so is weed, nicotine, hell even caffeine.

I think people are just concerned about public perception, not what is actually fair. Highlighting it's legitimate quality of life benefits, rather than recreational, is more likely to improve perception and thus regulatory decisions.

Ultimately, it's just one of many factors in the decision process.

[e_poison]

Alcohol gives me a euphoric buzz and that isn’t likely to be illegal anytime soon. I believe they tried prohibition once and that, combined with the lingering desperation of the Great Depression, was the catalyst for organized crime to reach such powerful levels that whole government agencies were glued together overnight to try to combat it.

Honestly, it has nothing to do with euphoria, the terms we use to describe it, or anything like that. It’s just a money issue.

Kratom would disrupt big pharma if it ever became mainstream, similar to medicinal marijuana now slowly replacing expensive prescription drugs. Sadly, we live in a country that is very much run by corporations who buy out our politicians, and thanks to their deep pockets they can use government agencies against anything that threatens their profits.

I disagree it has anything to do with language and how kratom is described. We could all say it makes us sick as hell, puke everywhere, but it cures our pain and let’s us live normal lives, and some pharma company who owns a senator would still try to ban it cause they can’t sell generic pill #357 anymore.

In conclusion, they don’t care about your health and they don’t care if kratom makes you euphoric. They just want your money for their product to solve the same issue that kratom solves for you.

[CatfatherB]

Thank you for that response e_poison, I almost thought that I had wound up in a Facebook "tea" group that preach regulation and advocating instead of the place I have been honored to be a part of the last couple of years and I would hate to see the censorship start now!!

[CatfatherB]

i wish there was a way to flag certain words when being used here. its one thing to say things via PM or in a casual chat. the E word, nod, etc.

I feel like doing this would be leading us down the path of a certain sub known for heavy moderation. Don't compare kratom's effects to the effects from hard drugs. Don't talk about the bad side of kratom use. etc etc etc

Our platform on r/kratomm is no censorship, or only when absolutely necessary, and light moderation. Same thing here.

I extremely agree, thank you as well for this response!

[TheStanman]

While I agree big pharma and money are probably the biggest factor, why do you feel so strongly that it's not multi-faceted? It's also a power-hungry DEA, fear-mongering media, academic research, and overall public perception.

I think medical marijuana is a perfect example of this. Big pharma is strongly opposed to it, but by focusing on the medical benefits, public perception has shifted and it's become much more mainstream.

If it was only about big pharma, kratom and marijuana would be fully illegal.

[the_spookiest]

I feel like doing this would be leading us down the path of a certain sub known for heavy moderation

as for moderation response, that definitely makes sense especially if the genesis of this forum came as a response to that sort of censorship. I can only speak for myself but there is a large range of 'accepted' terms and conversation around this. You can't use certain phrases in headshops. Facebook restricts a ton of common language. Some vendors say it is illegal to say this or that and they will get shut down, be liable to legal action, get snitched on, etc. Others will answer almost any question, freely, in various private or public places.

I suppose the issue is a lack of consistency. A tower of babel regarding how to discuss this in the way that both shines the best light and best assures the community is safe and knowledgable. While moderation or lack thereof regarding certain phrases or words or whatever, like someone else said, we can't really keep people from saying wild shit or asking wild questions.
I definitely am not about censoring people, but the massive array of kratom users that all are speaking a diff language can lead to a lot of misinformation or inaccuracies. I know there isn't a good fix and flagging certain words doesn't do anything but I guess I said that based on a desire for universality when it comes to discussion and information gathering. Sorry if it came across as pro-restrictive language. I dont know how to fix it because there will always be people crawling out of the woodwork describing kratom in damaging terms. That just sucks. I live with someone who views kratom use as identical to me 'relapsing on oxys'. This is because of her own online research and seeing what folks have said. My own attempts to explain science, chemistry, whatever all are filtered through the word 'opiate' and 'high'. This sort of stuff effecting me quite personally is probably why I said what I initially said. I figure I'm not the only younger person dealing with something like that re: family or friends viewing their kratom use.

[TheStanman]

I figure I'm not the only younger person dealing with something like that re: family or friends viewing their kratom use.

You 100% are not the only one.

[LeafersonJr32]

I do think people on this forum recently have been a bit too optimistic about the legal state of kratom. Yes it's not as dire as it was and we've had some (very limited) positive press, but things can change fast, especially at the local level. Heck, people are still being arrested for kratom in some parts of the US right now.

I'm cautiously optimistic, but don't think we should be celebrating victory quite yet.

To the OP, I agree words like euphoria are not helping our cause. But I'm also not that concerned as I think it's relatively small in the grand scheme of things.

I think people are definitely a little too optimistic right now. The war on kratom is still going as strong as ever and there are far too many people that read an anecdote from a user that sees them talking about nodding and euphoria and then are convinced that everything they have googled about kratom being an opiate is true. As far as the war I'm surprised it hasnt been mentioned on this forum yet, but there are many small legislations going into effect that are pushing for kratom to be more restricted like the Indonesian Ministry of Agriculture now labeling kratom a medicinal herb.

[LeafersonJr32]

I figure I'm not the only younger person dealing with something like that re: family or friends viewing their kratom use.

You 100% are not the only one.

9
Yep I have been judged for my kratom use for 6 years now by my family and even my girlfriend for 6 years as well. They have all went on google and read the propaganda that kratom is an opiate and blah blah blah. I have spent years trying to change their opinions that kratom is simply a leaf that can improve quality of life for many different people for different reasons so yes to see active members of the kratom community publicly claiming recreational highs from k definitely is disturbing after many years and how hard the kratom community has fought to change public perception. We are all free and all have freedom of speech i dont feel that anyone should be censored in just saying remember that you now directly influence public peeception on the leaf and the community as a whole.

[LeafersonJr32]

I feel like doing this would be leading us down the path of a certain sub known for heavy moderation

as for moderation response, that definitely makes sense especially if the genesis of this forum came as a response to that sort of censorship. I can only speak for myself but there is a large range of 'accepted' terms and conversation around this. You can't use certain phrases in headshops. Facebook restricts a ton of common language. Some vendors say it is illegal to say this or that and they will get shut down, be liable to legal action, get snitched on, etc. Others will answer almost any question, freely, in various private or public places.

I suppose the issue is a lack of consistency. A tower of babel regarding how to discuss this in the way that both shines the best light and best assures the community is safe and knowledgable. While moderation or lack thereof regarding certain phrases or words or whatever, like someone else said, we can't really keep people from saying wild shit or asking wild questions.
I definitely am not about censoring people, but the massive array of kratom users that all are speaking a diff language can lead to a lot of misinformation or inaccuracies. I know there isn't a good fix and flagging certain words doesn't do anything but I guess I said that based on a desire for universality when it comes to discussion and information gathering. Sorry if it came across as pro-restrictive language. I dont know how to fix it because there will always be people crawling out of the woodwork describing kratom in damaging terms. That just sucks. I live with someone who views kratom use as identical to me 'relapsing on oxys'. This is because of her own online research and seeing what folks have said. My own attempts to explain science, chemistry, whatever all are filtered through the word 'opiate' and 'high'. This sort of stuff effecting me quite personally is probably why I said what I initially said. I figure I'm not the only younger person dealing with something like that re: family or friends viewing their kratom use.

I have dealt with the exact same stigma and like you said certain terms and words only negatively contribute to the misinformation and when it is coming directly from someone who uses kratom that is like shooting yourself in the foot.

[mitragy9]

Yep I have been judged for my kratom use for 6 years now by my family and even my girlfriend for 6 years as well. They have all went on google and read the propaganda that kratom is an opiate and blah blah blah. I have spent years trying to change their opinions that kratom is simply a leaf that can improve quality of life for many different people for different reasons so yes to see active members of the kratom community publicly claiming recreational highs from k definitely is disturbing after many years and how hard the kratom community has fought to change public perception. We are all free and all have freedom of speech i dont feel that anyone should be censored in just saying remember that you now directly influence public peeception on the leaf and the community as a whole.

There is a massive stigma with all opiate and opioid use. People with legitimate pain needs for full agonist opioids are treated liked drug seekers by pretty much everyone in the medical industry now. It really sucks the media and gov have really blown this "opioid epidemic" out of proportion. The entire problem was pill mills and street heroin/fentanyl not necessarily prescriptions or people with severe chronic pain. People with cancer have trouble getting their meds now :/ and peoples perception of this class of drugs is at a all time low kratom being included. They don't understand there are massive differences between just opiates and opioids, all they hear is opi and their minds are immediately made up that it's bad and shouldn't be used.

[LeafersonJr32]

I agree 100 percent mitragy9 with the stigma and the pill mills and especially the fentanyl/heroin playing a gigantic role. It is sad to know that at some point in the near futute there will probably be no worthwhile pain management for anyone.

[BallzDeep9]

Honestly, it has nothing to do with euphoria, the terms we use to describe it, or anything like that. It’s just a money issue.

Kratom would disrupt Big Pharma if it ever became mainstream, similar to medicinal marijuana now slowly replacing expensive prescription drugs. Sadly, we live in a country that is very much run by corporations who buy out our politicians, and thanks to their deep pockets they can use government agencies against anything that threatens their profits.

Exactly. Follow the money trail... For now, kratom is being allowed to exist in a "grey market" legally. It's not a drug and it's not a supplement. Every product sold, must be legally categorized 1 or the other - Supplements either fall under (DSHEA Act of 1994), or they are considered NDI (New Dietary Ingredients) by the FDA. Good discussion 3 years ago, on Reddit about a possible Kratom NDI - https://www.reddit.com/r/kratom/comment ... ratom_ndi/

AKA and their "Big Kratom" vendors, would be gone overnight IF kratom was accepted by FDA, as a supplement... "Big Vitamin" companies (NOW Foods, Gaia Herbs, Garden Of Life, etc.) who are AHPA Members, would jump into kratom - packaging & distributing to Walmart stores. Prices would most likely drop.

There is a LOT of confusion, over where kratom is AT legally... The FACT's do not meet perception. Kratom users get emails from AKA, fear-mongering paranoia about FDA, they're "gonna ban kratom", etc. Baloney! Reality is - DEA attempted Emergency Scheduling in 2016, and since then... there's been really NO problem with kratom! NO deaths as predicted! As a result - FDA has made NO statement, or taken NO action on kratom, in over 2 years!!

[BallzDeep9]

I think people are definitely a little too optimistic right now. The War on kratom is still going as strong as ever and there are far too many people that read an anecdote from a user that sees them talking about nodding and euphoria ....

man I gotta agree with Stanman here.. don't be too disturbed by all the idiots on Social Media. Stick with the FACTs - Nobody has died from kratom, since the 2016 DEA Emergency Scheduling failed. It's basically been proven, by science and facts, that kratom IS safe... https://scienmag.com/natural-herb-krato ... er-survey/

There IS however a War On Drugs, which is STILL being pushed by the Republican Party. Now... Everything is being politicized. Right? Wearing a goddamn mask to avoid COVID? uhhh you must be a liberal! Listening to doctors and scientists? You're a liberal. Watching the RNC this week I counted several speeches, Pro Drug War, Anti cannabis... One dumb ass dope addict "Saved by Jesus", wanted all opioids banned period. That's their solution to The Opioid Crisis.

So... Weed, cannabis, CBD, kratom... everything IS on the ballot. VOTE!! Everything's up for a Vote in 60+ days. Pretty clear, Blue states have legal weed, legal kratom, in fact we have Recreational cannabis stores! Entire west coast of USA. Really the only concern now, is State law and more states have liberal drug laws. Cannabis laws. It's mainly the Trump states/ Red states, where U go to prison 20 years for growing a pot plant!!

[LeafersonJr32]

I think people are definitely a little too optimistic right now. The War on kratom is still going as strong as ever and there are far too many people that read an anecdote from a user that sees them talking about nodding and euphoria ....

man I gotta agree with Stanman here.. don't be too disturbed by all the idiots on Social Media. Stick with the FACTs - Nobody has died from kratom, since the 2016 DEA Emergency Scheduling failed. It's basically been proven, by science and facts, that kratom IS safe... https://scienmag.com/natural-herb-krato ... er-survey/

There IS however a War On Drugs, which is STILL being pushed by the Republican Party. Now... Everything is being politicized. Right? Wearing a goddamn mask to avoid COVID? uhhh you must be a liberal! Listening to doctors and scientists? You're a liberal. Watching the RNC this week I counted several speeches, Pro Drug War, Anti cannabis... One dumb ass dope addict "Saved by Jesus", wanted all opioids banned period. That's their solution to The Opioid Crisis.

So... Weed, cannabis, CBD, kratom... everything IS on the ballot. VOTE!! Everything's up for a Vote in 60+ days. Pretty clear, Blue states have legal weed, legal kratom, in fact we have Recreational cannabis stores! Entire west coast of USA. Really the only concern now, is State law and more states have liberal drug laws. Cannabis laws. It's mainly the Trump states/ Red states, where U go to prison 20 years for growing a pot plant!!

Oh trust me I know that kratom is completely safe, but 3/4 people I talk to only have one preconception about kratom and that is that it is an opiate. There have also been many states and local governments that have pushed to ban kratom just this year. The fda is still active in pushing bans they have just moved onto a new plan and that is to get the Indonesian government to declare it a medicinal plant that way the indonesian government can reveive massive tax money for kratom exports and so big pharma is able to use it to make pharmaceuticals. As far as the governments stance and which party is in control I am not sure I coule ever trust either party because they both want power over us and they are both deeply entrenched with corporations and big pharma. Their are politicians on both sides who have had their pockets and campaigns paid for by these companies. I wish I could see it as vote blue or red and could expect real change and more freedom, but I just know better than to trust the government or career politicians.

[LeafersonJr32]

I just want to live in a country where we have the freedom to consume any plant we want to consume. I dont see how anyone should be able to tell someone else theyre not allowed to consume a plant or do anything for that matter as long as someone isnt harming others or their property.

[LeafersonJr32]

I think people are definitely a little too optimistic right now. The War on kratom is still going as strong as ever and there are far too many people that read an anecdote from a user that sees them talking about nodding and euphoria ....

man I gotta agree with Stanman here.. don't be too disturbed by all the idiots on Social Media. Stick with the FACTs - Nobody has died from kratom, since the 2016 DEA Emergency Scheduling failed. It's basically been proven, by science and facts, that kratom IS safe... https://scienmag.com/natural-herb-krato ... er-survey/

There IS however a War On Drugs, which is STILL being pushed by the Republican Party. Now... Everything is being politicized. Right? Wearing a goddamn mask to avoid COVID? uhhh you must be a liberal! Listening to doctors and scientists? You're a liberal. Watching the RNC this week I counted several speeches, Pro Drug War, Anti cannabis... One dumb ass dope addict "Saved by Jesus", wanted all opioids banned period. That's their solution to The Opioid Crisis.

So... Weed, cannabis, CBD, kratom... everything IS on the ballot. VOTE!! Everything's up for a Vote in 60+ days. Pretty clear, Blue states have legal weed, legal kratom, in fact we have Recreational cannabis stores! Entire west coast of USA. Really the only concern now, is State law and more states have liberal drug laws. Cannabis laws. It's mainly the Trump states/ Red states, where U go to prison 20 years for growing a pot plant!!

I truly wish we could have both sides come out and state their stance on kratom I think the kratom community is large enough at this point to have both sides have to address their views on kratom.

[Delmore Skag]

If it's ever banned it won't have anything to do with the use of the word "euphoria" on kratom forums

[LeafersonJr32]

If it's ever banned it won't have anything to do with the use of the word "euphoria" on kratom forums

I respect your opinion, but I have literally seen family members find reviews on the internet of people talking about nodding and euphoria and come to me saying I thought you said it doesnt get you high? Kratom doesnt get me high never has. I have had so many people be dissapointed with kratom when I let them try it because it didnt get them high.

[e_poison]

I just want to live in a country where we have the freedom to consume any plant we want to consume. I dont see how anyone should be able to tell someone else theyre not allowed to consume a plant or do anything for that matter as long as someone isnt harming others or their property.

I agree, nobody should be allowed to tell another human being what they can and can't put into their own bodies. It's my body. I should be able to do take whatever I want whenever I want. However, I feel the laws exist because some people are just flat out morons when they're drugged out and cause problems for others. Being protected from these idiots is one of the benefits of living in a civilized society. And society has rules and laws to protect everyone. Like you said, too many would be harming others and their property. Amazingly though, one of the most unhealthy and life ruining substances in the world is still legal - alcohol.

As to the second point, there are countries in this world where you can pretty much do whatever you want, whenever you want, but crime is very high. There are even some areas with NO government but you couldn't pay me enough to live there lol.

[Jestrice2002]

I just want to live in a country where we have the freedom to consume any plant we want to consume. I dont see how anyone should be able to tell someone else theyre not allowed to consume a plant or do anything for that matter as long as someone isnt harming others or their property.

I agree, nobody should be allowed to tell another human being what they can and can't put into their own bodies. It's my body. I should be able to do take whatever I want whenever I want. However, I feel the laws exist because some people are just flat out morons when they're drugged out and cause problems for others. Being protected from these idiots is one of the benefits of living in a civilized society. And society has rules and laws to protect everyone. Like you said, too many would be harming others and their property. Amazingly though, one of the most unhealthy and life ruining substances in the world is still legal - alcohol.

As to the second point, there are countries in this world where you can pretty much do whatever you want, whenever you want, but crime is very high. There are even some areas with NO government but you couldn't pay me enough to live there lol.

This is just what I was getting ready to type! You can't trust serious, selfish people. Unfortunately, there are too many of them out there.

[zachdank]

If it's ever banned it won't have anything to do with the use of the word "euphoria" on kratom forums

This ^^^
I literally laugh every time i hear somebody spout off a lecture on even mentioning the word lol.
Im super thankful the mods on doubleM are good peeps and don't go all full propaganda censorship on here. Id be gone with the quickness the day i saw that happen. Money is ALL that matters when it comes to the legality of Kratom. Forum vocabulary is laughable as any kind of danger to banning Kratom federally. Im not speaking on family members or girlfriends judging anybody. Thats 100% a personal problem. Nothing that should be shoved down peoples throats as a reason to not mention the CLEAR cut euphoria that comes with great quality leaf. It is what it is man. As long as people are following the basic doubleM forum rules and keeping the respect theres zero reason to censor anybody around here. I have family that are super judgmental over alcohol issues. Wont see me preaching to people on any forum let alone trying to convince those people that they don't even get buzzed off of alcohol so they need to stop talking like they do. They're just a bunch of alcoholics that need therapy
I literally see that nonsense being posted on here at least once a week.
Usually just ignore it and move on. Gets old tho

[nomo]

If it's ever banned it won't have anything to do with the use of the word "euphoria" on kratom forums

This ^^^
I literally laugh every time i hear somebody spout off a lecture on even mentioning the word lol.
Im super thankful the mods on doubleM are good peeps and don't go all full propaganda censorship on here. Id be gone with the quickness the day i saw that happen. Money is ALL that matters when it comes to the legality of Kratom. Forum vocabulary is laughable as any kind of danger to banning Kratom federally. Im not speaking on family members or girlfriends judging anybody. Thats 100% a personal problem. Nothing that should be shoved down peoples throats as a reason to not mention the CLEAR cut euphoria that comes with great quality leaf. It is what it is man. As long as people are following the basic doubleM forum rules and keeping the respect theres zero reason to censor anybody around here. I have family that are super judgmental over alcohol issues. Wont see me preaching to people on any forum let alone trying to convince those people that they don't even get buzzed off of alcohol so they need to stop talking like they do. They're just a bunch of alcoholics that need therapy
I literally see that nonsense being posted on here at least once a week.
Usually just ignore it and move on. Gets old tho

i'd even say it's probably worse to hide/censor the obvious effects to non-users/whoever than to show them that the euphoria and everything that comes with it is safe and nothing even comparable to harder stuff lol people aren't stupid the kratom community as a whole wouldn't be so massive and fast growing if there was little to no benefits from it. and i agree one of the best things about MM imo is the freedom to not be censored for the most part...

[TheStanman]

I think most of us appreciate the high freedom of speech on this forum.

One way to look at it as we should all recognize our part as representatives of the kratom community and do our best to show what safe, responsible use looks like and the benefits it can produce. This comes in many forms - the 'less is more' advice we give on this forum, influencing our friends and family, the language we use, not mixing with other drugs and ending up in the ER, etc.

I've faced a lot of judgement from friends, family, and doctors for my use. I've also changed a lot of minds through showing how it can be used and what it can do.

[MycatTimmy]

I think most of us appreciate the high freedom of speech on this forum.

One way to look at it as we should all recognize our part as representatives of the kratom community and do our best to show what safe, responsible use looks like and the benefits it can produce. This comes in many forms - the 'less is more' advice we give on this forum, influencing our friends and family, the language we use, not mixing with other drugs and ending up in the ER, etc.

I've faced a lot of judgement from friends, family, and doctors for my use. I've also changed a lot of minds through showing how it can be used and what it can do.

I agree 100% Stanman. We should all be advocates for responsible kratom use and education.

[LeafersonJr32]

I think most of us appreciate the high freedom of speech on this forum.

One way to look at it as we should all recognize our part as representatives of the kratom community and do our best to show what safe, responsible use looks like and the benefits it can produce. This comes in many forms - the 'less is more' advice we give on this forum, influencing our friends and family, the language we use, not mixing with other drugs and ending up in the ER, etc.

I've faced a lot of judgement from friends, family, and doctors for my use. I've also changed a lot of minds through showing how it can be used and what it can do.

I dont believe in censoring anyone whatsoever I am a huge believer in free speech and personal freedom as a whole. I do however agree 100 percent with what TheStanMan has said here. He articulated this in the exact way that I was trying to but better. We all represent now and dont think that you do not influence public perception as an every day consumer.

[zachdank]

i'd even say it's probably worse to hide/censor the obvious effects to non-users/whoever than to show them that the euphoria and everything that comes with it is safe and nothing even comparable to harder stuff lol people aren't stupid the kratom community as a whole wouldn't be so massive and fast growing if there was little to no benefits from it. and i agree one of the best things about MM imo is the freedom to not be censored for the most part...

Never really think of it that way. Its actually quite hilarious tho. I can imagine someone who's NEVER tried kratom before, and ends up at this forum looking for info before they try Kratom for whatever reason. Maybe its extreme chronic pain, debilitating depression, insomnia, severe anxiety issues... They repeatedly read on this forum from the same super small handful of doubleM regulars that "euphoria" and a couple other words that they've targeted as forbidden just off of their own biased opinion (Nothing related to fact what so ever) Literally saying that those words just don't exist and if you do happen to feel any of that then you're doing it wrong
Then, said person orders some fresh leaf from one of the few world class, small batch vendors... Maybe some Rhino Remedies Super Green Malay, Texas Family Harvest Red Muna, Denettes Red Bone, MitraMans Green Jong Kong, Fused Floras White Takengon, any of Soultanics fire summer batches, Sosas red Sunda...
They just might feel the forbidden Euphoria, or perhaps find themselves drifting off into sleep like myself after a 7 day bout of severe insomnia (clinically diagnosed 15 years ago) Some would call it "nodding" but we'll just call it, well, nothing. Can only imagine what would be going through their head as they are experiencing some truly amazing high quality leaf
Fact is i've seen more than a few new members get chased off of this forum for mistakenly using any of those perfectly reasonable words. Ive stuck up for more than a few of those new members that never came back to double M after one day. Ive got a handful of DMs from those members asking what certain peoples problem is before they bounced.
This forum is truly a great place no matter what tho, just off the fact that the mods do NOT give in to those people and start banning certain words, and keep those opinions about them just that. OPINIONS

[LeafersonJr32]

i'd even say it's probably worse to hide/censor the obvious effects to non-users/whoever than to show them that the euphoria and everything that comes with it is safe and nothing even comparable to harder stuff lol people aren't stupid the kratom community as a whole wouldn't be so massive and fast growing if there was little to no benefits from it. and i agree one of the best things about MM imo is the freedom to not be censored for the most part...

Never really think of it that way. Its actually quite hilarious tho. I can imagine someone who's NEVER tried kratom before, and ends up at this forum looking for info before they try Kratom for whatever reason. Maybe its extreme chronic pain, debilitating depression, insomnia, severe anxiety issues... They repeatedly read on this forum from the same super small handful of doubleM regulars that "euphoria" and a couple other words that they've targeted as forbidden just off of their own biased opinion (Nothing related to fact what so ever) Literally saying that those words just don't exist and if you do happen to feel any of that then you're doing it wrong
Then, said person orders some fresh leaf from one of the few world class, small batch vendors... Maybe some Rhino Remedies Super Green Malay, Texas Family Harvest Red Muna, Denettes Red Bone, MitraMans Green Jong Kong, Fused Floras White Takengon, any of Soultanics fire summer batches, Sosas red Sunda...
They just might feel the forbidden Euphoria, or perhaps find themselves drifting off into sleep like myself after a 7 day bout of severe insomnia (clinically diagnosed 15 years ago) Some would call it "nodding" but we'll just call it, well, nothing. Can only imagine what would be going through their head as they are experiencing some truly amazing high quality leaf
Fact is i've seen more than a few new members get chased off of this forum for mistakenly using any of those perfectly reasonable words. Ive stuck up for more than a few of those new members that never came back to double M after one day. Ive got a handful of DMs from those members asking what certain peoples problem is before they bounced.
This forum is truly a great place no matter what tho, just off the fact that the mods do NOT give in to those people and start banning certain words, and keep those opinions about them just that. OPINIONS

Look man I agree with you about there being nothing wrong with feeling good if it were up to me you could have all the euphoria you could imagine...but the problem is that there is a massive amount of people out there that think everyone should be miserable and if you have a gunshot wound, herneated disc, severe nerve pain, or anything that would cause you to have terrible want to kill yourself quality of life that you should just take an advil or Tylenol. Its not me man it is the stigma and I wish it didnt exist but it does. Why do you think we dont talk about payment info on here? It is for the vendors protection...just like not saying the karen trigger words.

[zachdank]

Look man I agree with you about there being nothing wrong with feeling good if it were up to me you could have all the euphoria you could imagine...but the problem is that there is a massive amount of people out there that think everyone should be miserable and if you have a gunshot wound, herneated disc, severe nerve pain, or anything that would cause you to have terrible want to kill yourself quality of life that you should just take an advil or Tylenol. Its not me man it is the stigma and I wish it didnt exist but it does. Why do you think we dont talk about payment info on here? It is for the vendors protection...just like not saying the karen trigger words.

You know what i respect and appreciate the most around here? That you can have that opinion and i don't need to agree with it 1 bit. Or need anybody on my doubleM team. But i def respect that you can have that opinion. Voice it all you need. Thats what this place is for and the mods and admin are great people. I think WAY more people NEED to be aware of the euphoria and many other benefits that Kratom CLEARLY offers. Reason why is simple.
.......
If i would have known this myself 12 years ago, i would have chosen Kratom for my chronic pain and insomnia after shattering my spine, and breaking my neck. Instead of 5 years of hell on opioid pain medication. Theres a person out there right now today making a choice to take opiates because they are NOT aware of Kratoms true benefits because we need to keep a lid on it.
Im years free of any opiates for one reason. Kratom. And it isn't because Kratom just makes me feel kinda nice and a little mood lift. Far from it. Ill speak the truth as long as im not censored if it means one more person makes the jump because they hear the truth...

[LeafersonJr32]

I'm with you on reaching more people in the opioid trap. I was injured at work years ago and spent 5 years heavily addicted to opiates, the only clean time I had in that entire period was my time using kratom instead. I was given suboxone to come off and felt like a zombie...but with kratom I felt alive again and really just started enjoying life again. I love kratom and want everyone to have access to it, but i do know there are still many many people out there trying to take that right away. One of the biggest things I love about the kratom community is that it is a community that believes in personal freedoms.