Double M Herbals | Kratom Forum

when I burn kratom I get very happy, relaxed, pro-social, and i just feel better. but even though it makes me love people even more, when someone does something that would normally tick me off, it REALLY pisses me off. every single little annoying thing they do or say just adds a full-size russet potato to the soup of rage brewing in my brain. even though it really shortens my fuse, its not a huge issue because i can control myself. but its still not a great effect.

anybody else have a similar experience?

I used to be the same way. It still affects me that way once in a while but definitely used to get super annoyed over little things. It helps to just try to divert your attention when you feel the annoyance coming so that it doesn’t grow to where whatever the annoying thing is is all you can focus on lol. Like the sound of someone chewing near you lmao

I get that rarely only with certain strains or seemingly at random. It happens every time, even with different vendors?

"Opi rage" is a real thing. Idk what it is with opioids but they do make you really irritable, like you feel so great that any little inconvenience that may mess with that really pisses you off. Morphine/heroin was much worse but I still notice it a bit with kratom too.

@TheStanman
yeah i haven't seen any correlation with vendors. but it doesn't happen every time, really only when i would naturally have that reaction. so in other words, it doesn't CAUSE the feeling, it just enhances or STRENGTHENS the feeling of irritation

@mitragy9
thanks for the info, that explains a lot. it mostly happens when one of family members starts lecturing me about something insignifigant that they already told me, and normally i could just take a few deep breathes and wait out the 20-30 minutes of BS, but the "opi rage" just makes it difficult to not blow a gasket.

and look at me now, im opi-angry enough to complain about my family on the internet

I have never experienced this, even with the more stimulating 'strains'.
Further, suggesting that Kratom is an opioid whose use can induce "opi rage" is really irresponsible, imo. Kratom can't get you "high". Like any other substance - coffee, nicotine, even SUGAR - kratom most certainly can affect our moods. especially if one decides to stop enjoying these substances suddenly.
But rage can be caused by -literally - millions of things: hormones immediately come to my mind, especially testosterone.

Greyfeather wrote:I have never experienced this, even with the more stimulating 'strains'.
Further, suggesting that Kratom is an opioid whose use can induce "opi rage" is really irresponsible, imo. Kratom can't get you "high". Like any other substance - coffee, nicotine, even SUGAR - kratom most certainly can affect our moods. especially if one decides to stop enjoying these substances suddenly.
But rage can be caused by -literally - millions of things: hormones immediately come to my mind, especially testosterone.

kratom is an opioid........ that's never been disputed by anybody, both mitragynine and 7-hydroxymitragynine are both partial μ-opioid receptor agonists. 7-ohm having an very high affinity to the μ-opioid receptor much higher affinity than morphine. This high affinity is why kratom can block other opioids from attaching to the receptor if it's present in the brain. Kratom can most certainly get you high lol it just lacks euphoria and potency due to being a partial agonist.

"Opi rage" is just a funny term for something a ton of people experience, you'd know this if you had extensive use with opioids. There is no real scientific proven reason as to why people experience this from opioid use, they just do. It's such a common symptom with use of opioids that the term "opi rage" has spawned out of it and has become a unanimous term to describe it. Don't believe me? Just google opioids and irritability or kratom an irritability....

here's an example

mitragy9 wrote:

Greyfeather wrote:I have never experienced this, even with the more stimulating 'strains'.
Further, suggesting that Kratom is an opioid whose use can induce "opi rage" is really irresponsible, imo. Kratom can't get you "high". Like any other substance - coffee, nicotine, even SUGAR - kratom most certainly can affect our moods. especially if one decides to stop enjoying these substances suddenly.
But rage can be caused by -literally - millions of things: hormones immediately come to my mind, especially testosterone.

kratom is an opioid........ that's never been disputed by anybody, both mitragynine and 7-hydroxymitragynine are both partial μ-opioid receptor agonists. 7-ohm having an very high affinity to the μ-opioid receptor much higher affinity than morphine. This high affinity is why kratom can block other opioids from attaching to the receptor if it's present in the brain. Kratom can most certainly get you high lol it just lacks euphoria and potency due to being a partial agonist.

"Opi rage" is just a funny term for something a ton of people experience, you'd know this if you had extensive use with opioids. There is no real scientific proven reason as to why people experience this from opioid use, they just do. It's such a common symptom with use of opioids that the term "opi rage" has spawned out of it and has become a unanimous term to describe it. Don't believe me? Just google opioids and irritability or kratom an irritability....

here's an example

Yes, finally. Kratom is definitely an opioid

oftheshire wrote:ILike the sound of someone chewing near you lmao

This is called misophonia and I struggle with it on or off kratom. Some people seek treatment. I'm not that bad, but I've had to have lots of awkward conversations with people asking them to not do something (e.g., boss chewing gum). It doesn't just annoy me, it actually makes angry and my brain tries to shut down to not hear it.

mictictac - I know what you mean about it strengthening and not causing it. That's how it is with me, just with very few strains. That sucks. Potentially a lower dose would help?

@Greyfeather
i mostly agree with you, the strength of kratom is comparable to caffeine and nictotine, i know because i have a lot of experience with both. but chill out bro, nobody is saying kratom is bad because its a opiate. I was just sharing my experience and at no point did i suggest kratom was bad, dangerous, or shouldn't be legal. be an adult and don't get so defensive when someone shares their experience or makes a slight critique of the kratom which you apparently hold so dear.

@TheStanman
i think my dose is pretty low, usually 4g for all strains except i take 6g doses of red strains. sometimes i take two doses in a single day spread out, but i never exceed 8g total. like i said before, this doesn't happen all that often so i haven't been able to connect it to any specific strain. what dosage do you normally take?


@oftheshire
most noises don't bother me. but oh god, the sound of people chewing with their mouth open..... AAAAAaaAHhHHhHRRrRGggGG

Its really hard to piss someone on kratom, i remember few times when you being nagged on someone trying to piss you off on purpose, you become a flying bom, telling them exactly WTF they need to hear. Best thing to do is say, your not a good person and walk away, make them think. Or be 100% honest, say how it is, let them hear it, good or bad, express it all. we cant always be fluffy duffy when using kratom. Be nice, give them a chance to fix them selfs, tell them what is pissing you off. and if they still continue and dont say anything in the line iam sorry i didnt know you felt this way, i ll be carefull then LEAVE them and let them know your not happy with their attitude, and that you dont accept it it. Just leave, leave them hanging thinking what they did wrong. Thtas if its a close family but if its someone you rarley see, you should just walk away.

I mean it does happen once in a while, so mood and vibe is very important. listen to all the politics or some stupid shit and your blood starts boiling, dont think you will be in a good vibe anymore, turn on your calming music, relax, watch some cat videos or something lol, change the state mind and all that piss off will evaporate. cant say it doesn't work until you try it.

@brave777
good info man. now that i think about it, being short with some people isn't all bad. normally i'm very patient with people, maybe a little too patient. if someone starts acting like a complete fool, i just wait it out till the next day when they're back to normal. problem is, occasionally they continue to act that way because i haven't expressed my dislike toward their actions, leaving me angrier each time they do it until i snap. so yeah, maybe kratom just influences me to skip that process and get right to the meat and potatoes.

mictictac wrote:@Greyfeather
i mostly agree with you, the strength of kratom is comparable to caffeine and nictotine, i know because i have a lot of experience with both. but chill out bro, nobody is saying kratom is bad because its a opiate. I was just sharing my experience and at no point did i suggest kratom was bad, dangerous, or shouldn't be legal. be an adult and don't get so defensive when someone shares their experience or makes a slight critique of the kratom which you apparently hold so dear.

Hate to be this guy but kratom is not an opiate, it is an opioid. Anyone confused with the difference I'll break it down for you in a easy way to remember. Opiates are alkaloids found in the opium poppy(morphine/codeine/thebaine) opioids are any substance/plant/compound/alkaloid that acts on the brains opioid receptors. Remember opiate = found in the opium poppy, Opioid = acts on opioid receptors(often a blanket term)

mitragy9 wrote:

mictictac wrote:@Greyfeather
i mostly agree with you, the strength of kratom is comparable to caffeine and nictotine, i know because i have a lot of experience with both. but chill out bro, nobody is saying kratom is bad because its a opiate. I was just sharing my experience and at no point did i suggest kratom was bad, dangerous, or shouldn't be legal. be an adult and don't get so defensive when someone shares their experience or makes a slight critique of the kratom which you apparently hold so dear.

Hate to be this guy but kratom is not an opiate, it is an opioid. Anyone confused with the difference I'll break it down for you in a easy way to remember. Opiates are alkaloids found in the opium poppy(morphine/codeine/thebaine) opioids are any substance/plant/compound/alkaloid that acts on the brains opioid receptors. Remember opiate = found in the opium poppy, Opioid = acts on opioid receptors(often a blanket term)

yeah i always wondered what the difference was, i was just too lazy too google it. thanks for saving me the 2 calories of energy i would have used to search for it
i used to call them opioids, but then someone told me opioids were synthetic and man-made, while opiates were naturally from plants. that's probably why ive been confused this whole time

mitragy9 wrote: opioids are any substance/plant/compound/alkaloid that acts on the brains opioid receptors.

NO... wOw. So you're 1 of the "kratom = opioid" people? By your logic... Menthol is an opioid. Chocolate is an opioid. Epicatechins in chocolate acts mainly via delta-opioid receptors [51]. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20833967/

The American Kratom Association (& associated Doctors and Scientists) say - Kratom Is NOT a "drug" and not an "opioid". Having some natural alkaloids with partial opioid properties, do not make the entire substance an "opioid". Dr. Jack Henningfield, PhD called kratom... a non- opioid. So IF you need a label, there's your accurate label.

Members of Congress Of The United States, declared in a Letter "Kratom Is Not an Opioid". LINK

BallzDeep9 wrote:

mitragy9 wrote: opioids are any substance/plant/compound/alkaloid that acts on the brains opioid receptors.

NO... wOw. So you're 1 of the "kratom = opioid" people? By your logic... Menthol is an opioid. Chocolate is an opioid. Epicatechins in chocolate acts mainly via delta-opioid receptors [51]. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20833967/

The American Kratom Association (& associated Doctors and Scientists) say - Kratom Is NOT a "drug" and not an "opioid". Having some natural alkaloids with partial opioid properties, do not make the entire substance an "opioid". Dr. Jack Henningfield, PhD called kratom... a non- opioid. So IF you need a label, there's your accurate label.

Members of Congress Of The United States, declared in a Letter "Kratom Is Not an Opioid". LINK

Yes those alkaloids are technically opioids if you go by the medical definition. Kratom acts on the brains opioid receptors correct??? Therefore it's an opioid. Peroid. Does it have any other significant method of action other than the μ-opioid agonism? I'll be waiting lol, what a strange hill to die on. People need to get over this stigma with the class of drugs known as "opioids" there is nothing wrong with using them. Not all of them cause death an destruction, but to lie and say kratom isn't one is fucking laughable and is so dishonest it's actually disgusting.

EDIT: Hilarious how you bring up the AKA when you constantly shit talk them as being a scare tactic money grabbing organization.
If you're trying to skirt around the issue saying that Kratom is just a mere plant that just happens to contain opioids but isn't an opioid is incredibly stupid. That's like saying opium latex isn't actually an opiate it just happens to contain opiates like morphine. See where I'm going.

this all seems like a bunch of semantics, who cares if its an opioid or not? its kinda like arguing about whether or not something is a "drug". some people say a substance isn't a drug because its a negative connotation like heroin, and some say it is a drug because anything that influences the mind or body is a drug.

mictictac wrote:this all seems like a bunch of semantics, who cares if its an opioid or not? its kinda like arguing about whether or not something is a "drug". some people say a substance isn't a drug because its a negative connotation like heroin, and some say it is a drug because anything that influences the mind or body is a drug.

Because it's complete misinformation and lies lol. Spreading complete misinformation about kratom is exactly what these Gov agencies are looking for when it comes to cracking down on it's legality.

mitragy9 wrote:

mictictac wrote:this all seems like a bunch of semantics, who cares if its an opioid or not? its kinda like arguing about whether or not something is a "drug". some people say a substance isn't a drug because its a negative connotation like heroin, and some say it is a drug because anything that influences the mind or body is a drug.

Because it's complete misinformation and lies lol. Spreading complete misinformation about kratom is exactly what these Gov agencies are looking for when it comes to cracking down on it's legality.

fair enough, that's a valid point

mictictac wrote:

mitragy9 wrote:

mictictac wrote:this all seems like a bunch of semantics, who cares if its an opioid or not? its kinda like arguing about whether or not something is a "drug". some people say a substance isn't a drug because its a negative connotation like heroin, and some say it is a drug because anything that influences the mind or body is a drug.

Because it's complete misinformation and lies lol. Spreading complete misinformation about kratom is exactly what these Gov agencies are looking for when it comes to cracking down on it's legality.

fair enough, that's a valid point

Anyways I've said what I've had to say about the subject and that's all I will say in this thread. Now back to the thread subject the mysterious "opi-rage" I've been finding the kratom I got recently is causing it again. Short fuse, annoyance, irritability(maybe you can tell ) have no idea what's causing this but I find it to be related to how much of an effect I'm feeling. If I'm very sedated from kratom I notice it's much more likely to happen, when I'm bordering on a "nod" that irritability is definitely there. It's definitely there if you take way too much as well then you're sick and angry lol. So maybe try taking less if the "opi-rage" is becoming a problem.

A thread about kratom making people irritable
People who are likely on kratom wind up getting irritated within the thread

lol

But yeah, I know what you mean. It's a very short lived irritation though, it's not like I'm genuinely angry to the point that I stew on it or will actually do anything irrational. It's moreso just getting extremely frustrated. Usually it happens as the effects start to wear off (which is within like 30-60 minutes of dosing at this point, honestly) or if the dose didn't affect me in the way I wanted it to. That sounds petty when I say it out loud, lol. It doesn't always happen though, just sometimes. I know for sure it gets exacerbated if I haven't had any caffeine for a while and/or I'm very hungry or tired.

@rtfeather i mostly agree with you, the strength of kratom is comparable to caffeine and nictotine, i know because i have a lot of experience with both. but chill out bro, nobody is saying kratom is bad because its a opiate. I was just sharing my experience and at no point did i suggest kratom was bad, dangerous, or shouldn't be legal. be an adult and don't get so defensive when someone shares their experience or makes a slight critique of the kratom which you apparently hold so dear.

.

Be an adult and don't get so defensive. Wut? My comment is pretty toneless with little or no affect. I don't know where you're seeing 'childishness' or 'fear'. Maybe you just want to see it.
Also: not a "bro".

This is a weird flex, but it sounds like there are some irritable folks here, so.....

broccolibear wrote:A thread about kratom making people irritable
People who are likely on kratom wind up getting irritated within the thread

lol

Hehehe it's beautiful really

broccolibear wrote:A thread about kratom making people irritable
People who are likely on kratom wind up getting irritated within the thread

that's hilarious man

Greyfeather wrote:

@rtfeather i mostly agree with you, the strength of kratom is comparable to caffeine and nictotine, i know because i have a lot of experience with both. but chill out bro, nobody is saying kratom is bad because its a opiate. I was just sharing my experience and at no point did i suggest kratom was bad, dangerous, or shouldn't be legal. be an adult and don't get so defensive when someone shares their experience or makes a slight critique of the kratom which you apparently hold so dear.

.

Be an adult and don't get so defensive. Wut? My comment is pretty toneless with little or no affect. I don't know where you're seeing 'childishness' or 'fear'. Maybe you just want to see it.
Also: not a "bro".

This is a weird flex, but it sounds like there are some irritable folks here, so.....

I think the way you came across was a bit off, and i probably insulted you a bit too. so yeah, sorry about that. but i'd bet money we're mostly on the same page with kratom, so im willing to forgot this whole opi-rage situation happened "bro"

broccolibear wrote:A thread about kratom making people irritable
People who are likely on kratom wind up getting irritated within the thread

People who ABUSE kratom, like this admitted drug abuser does... tend to get irritable, it's a known side effect.

Look... Here's the same guy who yells about "socialism", now claiming "Kratom and Chocolate are opioids". Which goes directly against AKA, and the kratom Scientists... But that idea, does agree with Republicans who tried to BAN kratom!!! Opiods = Drugs.

Go figure.

BallzDeep9 wrote:

broccolibear wrote:A thread about kratom making people irritable
People who are likely on kratom wind up getting irritated within the thread

People who ABUSE kratom, like this admitted drug abuser does... tend to get irritable, it's a known side effect.

Look... Here's the same guy who yells about "socialism", now claiming "Kratom and Chocolate are opioids". Which goes directly against AKA, and the kratom Scientists... But that idea, does agree with Republicans who tried to BAN kratom!!! Opiods = Drugs.

Go figure.

lol way to bring up pointless shit and move the goal posts, sliding this thread further. Continue spewing misinformation I don't really give a shit anymore. "drug abuser" lol good one, seeing as we're posting on a KRATOM forum.

Pharmacology of Kratom

mitragy9 wrote:... Continue spewing misinformation I don't really give a shit anymore. "drug abuser" lol good one, seeing as we're posting on a KRATOM forum.

Point is, large servings of Kratom, produce a known side effect making the person irritable... I'm agreeing with you. Just observing... You have posted before, that you take large daily gpd, deal with side effects, tolerance problems, and previously had a history of poly-drug abuse (To explain why the large gpd?) Correct?

Hey I've gotten irritable too! On larger doses. The more gpd, the more known bad side effects, just common sense.

BallzDeep9 wrote:

mitragy9 wrote:... Continue spewing misinformation I don't really give a shit anymore. "drug abuser" lol good one, seeing as we're posting on a KRATOM forum.

Point is, large servings of Kratom, produce a known side effect making the person irritable... I'm agreeing with you. Just observing... You have posted before, that you take large daily gpd, deal with side effects, tolerance problems, and previously had a history of poly-drug abuse (To explain why the large gpd?) Correct?

Hey I've gotten irritable too! On larger doses. The more gpd, the more known bad side effects, just common sense.

Wow thanks for restating exactly what I said 8 posts ago while calling me a drug addict and insulting my political beliefs that have no basis in this thread. Thanks so very much ballz.

mitragy9 wrote: So maybe try taking less if the "opi-rage" is becoming a problem.

BallzDeep9 wrote:You have posted before, that you take large daily gpd, deal with side effects, tolerance problems, and previously had a history of poly-drug abuse (To explain why the large gpd?) Correct?

You've got a pretty condescending and elitist attitude about something so ridiculous. Could you imagine if someone went around saying cigarettes aren't bad for you, then when anyone tries to tell them otherwise they respond like you do saying that it's because they're smoking too much and they should be like you and only take a couple puffs a day? It's like... no shit, lol. The point is people can have difficulty controlling their use of anything. Kratom is no exception. What is the point of berating and belittling people for talking about it? I genuinely want to know what you hope to accomplish.

And as for kratom not being a drug... what are you talking about? Let's google the definition of a drug: "a medicine or other substance which has a physiological effect when ingested or otherwise introduced into the body." Ibuprofen is a drug, alcohol is a drug, caffeine is a drug, the compounds contained within weed are drugs, the compounds contained within kratom are drugs. If you admit that kratom has pain relieving or mood enhancing properties (or can make someone irritable), or literally any other effect on your body or mind you've admitted it's a drug. Hmm, maybe you're right though, the way it works is that it just tastes so good that it invigorates body and mind, opening up our holographic chakra points and centering our connection with the Universe.

If you want everyone to flat out lie about kratom in order to keep it legal are you really any better than the people trying to ban it?

Welp, sorry for derailing the thread even more, OP. I promise I'm not irritable because of kratom though!

BallzDeep9 wrote:

mitragy9 wrote: opioids are any substance/plant/compound/alkaloid that acts on the brains opioid receptors.

NO... wOw. So you're 1 of the "kratom = opioid" people? By your logic... Menthol is an opioid. Chocolate is an opioid. Epicatechins in chocolate acts mainly via delta-opioid receptors [51]. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20833967/

The American Kratom Association (& associated Doctors and Scientists) say - Kratom Is NOT a "drug" and not an "opioid". Having some natural alkaloids with partial opioid properties, do not make the entire substance an "opioid". Dr. Jack Henningfield, PhD called kratom... a non- opioid. So IF you need a label, there's your accurate label.

Members of Congress Of The United States, declared in a Letter "Kratom Is Not an Opioid". LINK

But...but...but...what about the FDAs little opioid detector machine thingy that spit out the word "opioid" after it tested kratom and then crawled back into the woodwork wherever pretend machines/detectors go? That accounts for SOMETHING, right? It IS the FDA! (ahem, cough) They wouldn't LIE to try to slither in an AGENDA....would they???
Hahaha! Hey Ballz! Glad you're still out and about, or whatever one would call this.

mictictac wrote:when I burn kratom I get very happy, relaxed, pro-social, and i just feel better. but even though it makes me love people even more, when someone does something that would normally tick me off, it REALLY pisses me off. every single little annoying thing they do or say just adds a full-size russet potato to the soup of rage brewing in my brain. even though it really shortens my fuse, its not a huge issue because i can control myself. but its still not a great effect.

anybody else have a similar experience?

Are you my partner?

mivanqua wrote: But...but...but...what about the FDAs little opioid detector machine thingy that spit out the word "opioid" after it tested kratom and then crawled back into the woodwork wherever pretend machines/detectors go? That accounts for SOMETHING, right? It IS the FDA! (ahem, cough) They wouldn't LIE to try to slither in an AGENDA....would they???
Hahaha! Hey Ballz! Glad you're still out and about, or whatever one would call this.

https://youtu.be/P9SIjuHaiXA?t=438

mitragy9 wrote:

mivanqua wrote: But...but...but...what about the FDAs little opioid detector machine thingy that spit out the word "opioid" after it tested kratom and then crawled back into the woodwork wherever pretend machines/detectors go? That accounts for SOMETHING, right? It IS the FDA! (ahem, cough) They wouldn't LIE to try to slither in an AGENDA....would they???
Hahaha! Hey Ballz! Glad you're still out and about, or whatever one would call this.

https://youtu.be/P9SIjuHaiXA?t=438

Great find! Its sad this is not played on all the news channel. Maybe one day.

I don't use daily but I've regularly noticed irritability. I still haven't figured out what it correlates to... I assumed it was strain-related, but now I am not so sure...

euphemism wrote:I don't use daily but I've regularly noticed irritability. I still haven't figured out what it correlates to... I assumed it was strain-related, but now I am not so sure...

Anything that acts on the μ-opioid receptor will potentially cause irritability in people.

mitragy9 wrote:"Opi rage" is a real thing. Idk what it is with opioids but they do make you really irritable, like you feel so great that any little inconvenience that may mess with that really pisses you off. Morphine/heroin was much worse but I still notice it a bit with kratom too.

Yep. I've found that, eventually, there is a trade-off with all mood altering substances. I don't consider anything, including kratom, a permanent solution.