Double M Herbals | Kratom Forum

Hey folks. I'm now joining the Chronic Pain Club, unfortunately a couple days ago guess I tore my shoulder/ rotator cuff. Just got X-ray back today, there is no break, some Arthritis (I'm really old!) so... Doc wants to start me on Physical Therapy asap before even doing an MRI - today I said well let's go ahead with MRI. Doc thinks it's possibly a thing called Frozen Shoulder, but pretty sure I tore something... either way... I'm looking at months or even years ?? Can't raise my arm above waist, PAIN so bad I can't sleep much.

Years ago, I had a back injury at the Gym... did not set bar collar while doing squats. Yep, real dumb, common weight lifting injury... Took me years to recover and I could not even tie my shoes for 6 months! That was back in the 90s, when I got started on Vicodin and Oxy etc

Anyway I've been taking Kratom for mood suipport, mainly, but now.... Chronic Pain. Please, if anyone has any tips, post here. For starters I bumped up my dose, and taking one Ibuprofen 200 mg, NSAID pain reliever and anti inflammatory, for my injury... Helps, but I'm worried about the Tolerance bug, going back to 20 gpd (that's a lot for me) and losing kratom's effect, we all know Tolerance is a issue.

Brewed Tea, does seem to have more pain relieving effects? Compared to plain powder? I'm using Aeropress for Tea... also guess I might get more Bent's and heavy red's as they seem to work better for pain. Thanks everyone!

Hope you feel better as quick as can be.

I'm in the chronic pain club as well. Not a fun club to be in. After being on pain killers for years, glad I found kratom which has been a lifesaver for me. On really bad days, I'll take tylenol with the kratom. They seem to work well together.

I guess my tip would be: don't rule out heat/cold as well. Sometimes a heating pad or ice pack is just the ticket to relief. Not sure whether to use heat or cold on a bad shoulder though.

As a side note, I did damage my rotator cup one time but it healed quickly. I don't even know how I did it. Just woke up one day and went to put on a shirt and realized it hurt like hell to lift my arms above my head. Lasted a couple weeks then went away as mysteriously as it came. Maybe that's the frozen shoulder your doc mentioned? I'm not sure, but I can imagine the pain you're going through. It was awful.

I hope you heal soon!

So sorry to hear about your chronic pain. I find that sometimes I'm surprised by what helps. So try everything, not just reds and such. I get the best relief from greens most of the time. Toss and wash works well for me. Best wishes and fast healing!

BallzDeep9 wrote:Hey folks. I'm now joining the Chronic Pain Club, unfortunately a couple days ago guess I tore my shoulder/ rotator cuff. Just got X-ray back today, there is no break, some Arthritis (I'm really old!) so... Doc wants to start me on Physical Therapy asap before even doing an MRI - today I said well let's go ahead with MRI. Doc thinks it's possibly a thing called Frozen Shoulder, but pretty sure I tore something... either way... I'm looking at months or even years ?? Can't raise my arm above waist, PAIN so bad I can't sleep much.

Years ago, I had a back injury at the Gym... did not set bar collar while doing squats. Yep, real dumb, common weight lifting injury... Took me years to recover and I could not even tie my shoes for 6 months! That was back in the 90s, when I got started on Vicodin and Oxy etc

Anyway I've been taking Kratom for mood suipport, mainly, but now.... Chronic Pain. Please, if anyone has any tips, post here. For starters I bumped up my dose, and taking one Ibuprofen 200 mg, NSAID pain reliever and anti inflammatory, for my injury... Helps, but I'm worried about the Tolerance bug, going back to 20 gpd (that's a lot for me) and losing kratom's effect, we all know Tolerance is a issue.

Brewed Tea, does seem to have more pain relieving effects? Compared to plain powder? I'm using Aeropress for Tea... also guess I might get more Bent's and heavy red's as they seem to work better for pain. Thanks everyone!

Hope you heal up fast. I'm a chronic pain person myself and only 34! I was diagnosed with a form of Mitochrondria Myopathy (and chronic fatigue syndrome) and still have pain issues daily. Took me two years in my late 20's going through every test in the book before doctor's actually started believing me about the pain I find Red/Yellow blends are my favorite for pain relief and mood lift (and red/gold in evening for slower burns). I dose at 2-4 grams per dose, about 3 or 4 times a day so I'm around taking around 10-12 grams per day, sometimes less and sometimes more depending on pain. I rarely have changed my dose size and seem to have kept tolerance issues away (and I use extract once in a blue moon for something like kidney stone pain). My mother's pain is worse due to Fibro and she uses 6g doses 3 times a day, mostly reds (same dose size for 5 years for her as well, no tolerance issues). We use plain leaf mixed in hot water and take it like a shot so I don't know if filtering it for tea like you mentioned you do changes the pain relieving effects...I will say that TFH has the best kratom for pain relief for me, BY FAR! Longest duration of pain relief effects with TFH leaf as well. If you want I can mail you out some samples. I know you're stocked up but if you to try more TFH strains that I use for pain, I'll ship you out a sampler?? Just let me know, I'll be happy to do so. 7OHM also has leaf with some of the best pain relief effects! I'm typing this now on a mix of his 2017 Red Bali 2g/Red Jambu 2g and which has melted my back pain away and I'm about to go to bed feeling comfortably numb .

I also use turmeric product daily for inflammation https://nootropicsdepot.com/curcumin-piperine-capsules/ Another thing that is helpful for me and my mother for nerve pain or deep tissue aches is Palmitoylethanolamide, or PEA (link here) https://nootropicsdepot.com/palmitoylet ... -capsules/ The key I learned with the PEA is to only take it 2 or 3 times a week because tolerance builds fast (and only one dose per day). And instead of one pill per dose, we use 2 pills and sometime my mom uses 3 pills per dose on really bad day (this works great with the turmeric curcumic-piperine product above, together they are very helpful for pain). I'm pretty sure there's studies where the dose was 800-1200mg whereas on the link above it suggests one 400mg serving size. The forum member Thenine had a thread on PEA that has a lot of user feedback. But the 800-1200mg range really enhances the pain relief

I don't have access to THC/CBD but I hear CBD works pretty well for pain. Last year a forum member traded me kratom and sent me some thc/cbd capsules (50% thc/50%cbd) from a weed shop in Florida and they really worked great for my parents for help with sleep. This was when my dad was having serious hip pain due to the bed he was using and the pills were very helpful. And in the past I've vaped thc with high cbd with good results for pain. I wish I had access to thc/cbd pills. They seem like a game changer for pain relief

And recently me and my mom have been using a cream that is extremely helpful. This is what I've used and where I bought from https://greatcbdshop.com/product/swiss- ... _sizes=1oz but I'm sure since you live in a legal state you can get something even better with higher cbd content

Wow I didn't mean to write a book. Plus I know you already know of all this info and more. I've learned a lot from your posts in the past on various subjects. Hopefully the Physical therapy will be very helpful. Feel better

Sending you a jar of my pain rub!

Ingredients:

Cannabis infused in coconut oil, organic St John's wort, arnica, comfrey, calendula, cottonwood buds and helichrysum infused in extra virgin olive oil, shea butter, beeswax, emulsifying wax, menthol crystals, aloe vera gel, tinctures of St John's wort, arnica, calendula and comfrey, essential oils of peppermint, ginger, camphor, cloves, cassia, cajeput, black pepper, wintergreen and helichrysum italicum.

I feel your pain, my friend...LITERALLY, and it's a BITCH! I have rotator cuff issues, bursitis and arthritis in
both shoulders. MRI shows a tear in the left shoulder, so, since my right shoulder feels almost exactly the same,
I would assume it's in the same condition. It's a constant bother.

I also had a frozen shoulder (bilateral adhesive capsulitis) and had to do physical therapy on the left
shoulder 3x per week for 9 weeks to get my range of motion back in order. I finally got most of my motion
back, but the pain is still moderate to severe, especially when sleeping. My go to is DMSO cream. I
have to apply it 2 to 3 times per night in order to sleep and it's more effective than anything I've tried for
joint relief. I usually get relief in as little as 5 minutes. I've tried a number of topical salves and ointments
and none of them even comes close to being as effective.

I've also found that 600 mg. of Ibuprofen is my minimum effective dose! It seems to be even more effective if
I take it with my serving of kratom.

Here's a link to the DMSO that I use:
https://www.vitacost.com/dmso-cream-wit ... lsrc=aw.ds

If you shop around, you may find a better price. I've seen prices range anywhere from $11 up to $24 for the
exact same product. It may, or may not be effective for you, but it's worth a try!

Hope everything works out!

Kailo patch helps me. YMMV. The power of placebo is strong in this one...

https://gokailo.com/

[quote="instantKARMA"]I feel your pain, my friend...LITERALLY, and it's a BITCH! I have rotator cuff issues, bursitis and arthritis in
both shoulders. MRI shows a tear in the left shoulder, so, since my right shoulder feels almost exactly the same,
I would assume it's in the same condition. It's a constant bother.

I also had a frozen shoulder (bilateral adhesive capsulitis) and had to do physical therapy on the left
shoulder 3x per week for 9 weeks to get my range of motion back in order. I finally got most of my motion
back, but the pain is still moderate to severe, especially when sleeping. My go to is DMSO
cream. I
have to apply it 2 to 3 times per night in order to sleep and it's more effective than anything I've tried for
joint relief. I usually get relief in as little as 5 minutes. I've tried a number of topical salves and oint
and none of them even comes close to being as effective.

I've also found that 600 mg. of Ibuprofen is my minimum effective dose! It seems to be even more effective if
I take it with my serving of kratom.

Here's a link to the DMSO that I use:
https://www.vitacost.com/dmso-cream-wit ... lsrc=aw.ds

If you shop around, you may find a better price. I've seen prices range anywhere from $11 up to $24 for the
exact same product.

thanks everyone for the ideas. I'm in a bad place this weekend, can hardly even type on a keyboard. Can't get dressed, play guitar, or move boxes of kratom. idk exactly what caused this & won't know prob until a MRI next week and begin phys therapy, with a steroid shot. Everything I read online says healing time 6 months to 2 years? At my age I can't sit around for two years. Its like constant pain comes and goes, hour by hour as I take kratom and meds.

I'll reply to a few, Karma, I hope mine isn't nine weeks. I've enjoyed pretty good health. Gonna order some DMSO cream, thanks for Tip. Obviously it needs anti inflammatory meds, I'm doing Ibuprofen 3X a day but, NSAID hard on stomach lining, also can't really do Turmeric due to interactions, Turmeric can multiply the blood thinning effects of any other med. Seems to me it's one or the other, not both?

E, I agree Tylenol is good with kratom, I gyues I'll rotate that with Advil every couple days? Both work in different ways and, seem to have synergy with kratom. Can't take aspirin, advil, tylenol, turmeric, kratom... oxycodone... all together lol. Must rotate and keep track of which meds on what day and what time. What a hassle. I can feel, after just a couple days on Ibuprofen it's burning a hole in stomach. Can't take on empty stomach. But kratom must take on empty stomach. I'm doing Magtein at night for a sleep aid.

Mike I do have CBD gummies. They are great! But easy to OD on edibles... Here we get quality cannabis products, I like the 50-50 gummies which are half THC but it's always a Indica strain so the result is feeling bombed and can't move off the couch. Maybe that's what I need. I like the cannabis kratom combo, must be careful with dosage on THC. Yes they are selling a huge variety of CBD products all very jacked-up expensive price wise. The Cannabis industry has become a huge money grab, as expected.... that'll be happening soon all over USA. Big Cannabis corporation weed selling for $30 a gram. People lined up around the block to pay that.

7ohm wrote: NSAIDS have a ton of side effects. I avoid them. Long term use prognosis is terrible. If ibuprofen is helpful then CBD might be a great alternative. Blows doors off of circumin and is allegedly even stronger than prescriptions like meloxiocam according to a study. If you don’t plan on getting surgery I’d look for a bulk source, although it’s pretty effective in low doses. People also report that it helps with sleep. I’m sure you’ve tried it, did it not work for you?

Thanks for the advise! I'll definitely look into CBD and give it a try. I've kind of avoided CBD due to the excessive cost that
BallzDeep9 mentioned, but I'm still going to try it! I have some stomach issues so CBD would definitely be safer than
ibuprofen! I was prescribed Meloxicam and then Celebrax in the past and they both caused stomach issues. So far, Ibuprofen
hasn't, but it's still a concern! I normally only take it once per day, usually in the middle of the night. Maybe that's why it hasn't
bothered me like the Meloxicam and Celebrax...and both of them are stronger than Ibuprofen.

After watching a couple of my friends go through shoulder surgery, I avoid it like the plague. Both of them went
through a world of hurt for several months after having surgery...much worse than what I tolerate, so I'm not in any hurry
to go that route.

BallzDeep9 wrote:thanks everyone for the ideas. I'm in a bad place this weekend, can hardly even type on a keyboard. Can't get dressed, play guitar, or move boxes of kratom. .

Daughter went from her town to your town to walk a trail yesterday. I wish I had thought to set up for her to drop you off a jar of pain rub. I keep forgetting I've sent her one and send her another and keep doing it. lol

Dmso can be dangerous if it's misused, would suggest you do some research before applying it to your skin. Also I would suggest looking into bpc 157, it's another one of those medications that can't be profitted off of and is abandoned by mainstream medicine. It really helped my shoulder joint.

In my experience brewed kratom isn't more pain relieving than the straight powder. Pairing kratom with tumeric+ black pepper might help, turmeric is a mild anti-inflammatory and will slightly potentiate the kratom.

instantKARMA wrote: Thanks for the advise! I'll definitely look into CBD and give it a try. I've kind of avoided CBD due to the excessive cost that
BallzDeep9 mentioned, but I'm still going to try it! I have some stomach issues so CBD would definitely be safer than
ibuprofen! I was prescribed Meloxicam and then Celebrax in the past and they both caused stomach issues. So far, Ibuprofen
hasn't, but it's still a concern! I normally only take it once per day, usually in the middle of the night. Maybe that's why it hasn't
bothered me like the Meloxicam and Celebrax...and both of them are stronger than Ibuprofen.

After watching a couple of my friends go through shoulder surgery, I avoid it like the plague. Both of them went
through a world of hurt for several months after having surgery...much worse than what I tolerate, so I'm not in any hurry
to go that route.

Karma, I too found CBD to be cost prohibitive until I found Lazarus Naturals. They offer an assistance program for veterans, those on long term disability, and those with low income. I fell into the last bracket. Regardless of how you qualify everyone gets the same 60% off. It was a lifesaver until I got on my states medical Marijuana list. If I'm remembering correctly it only took a couple days for Lazarus to approve me.

I don't know if that might help you, but I figured I'd let ya know! Their CBD is high quality too.

If you try curcumin and it helps, buy the bulk powder (duh, just like kratom eh) and get ready to wash your hands/pants/counter top for the next 3 days ha-ha. But seriously, $19.99 for 60 caps is a joke, that's about maybe 30grams of it, and 100 grams is $24.99, buy capsules for $7.99, and you saved 1/2 or more on 3X+ as many. Plus it's not watered down garbage, it's (or it can/should be) the real deal. Bonus tip, hit a Winco (or whatever local grocery store does bulk spices) and mix some cheap ($3.69 a pound, yes, a pound) turmeric with it, and throw in some black peppercorns (2-4 per capsule) and you've got the whole thing, only maybe better, and 300%+ cheaper. Peppercorns are also available at grocery stores that sell bulk spices, here they are $7.99 a pound, and a pound would be like 2 thousand of them ha-ha.

I have had -some- success with curcumin for aches and pains. It's not majick, and it's not hydros, but it's on par with aspirin or ibuprofen, with none of the liver damaging side effects, and it might also be good for a hair extra energy/alertness. A combination of kratom and curcumin seems about as good as it gets legally/over the counter for general pain relief. Perhaps a salve would be better for localized pains, I can't speak to that.

Be very careful with curcumin if you have any gallbladder issues. if you don't know you have gallbladder issues and you take cucurmin you'll probably find out. I did and it was very painful.

Everybody s got great solutions i just wanted to send healing vibes and prayers for wellness.I also want to mention resin for some reason on days when nothing helps resin does .

VerbalQuicksand wrote: Karma, I too found CBD to be cost prohibitive until I found Lazarus Naturals. They offer an assistance program for veterans, those on long term disability, and those with low income. I fell into the last bracket. Regardless of how you qualify everyone gets the same 60% off. It was a lifesaver until I got on my states medical Marijuana list. If I'm remembering correctly it only took a couple days for Lazarus to approve me.

I don't know if that might help you, but I figured I'd let ya know! Their CBD is high quality too.

Thanks for the heads up with the Lazarus suggestion, VQ! I'll definitely check that out. We have medical MJ in my
state, but so far prices are ridiculous. There's better bud and better prices on the street than what they're charging at
our state dispensaries!

instantKARMA wrote: Thanks for the heads up with the Lazarus suggestion, VQ! I'll definitely check that out. We have medical MJ in my
state, but so far prices are ridiculous. There's better bud and better prices on the street than what they're charging at
our state dispensaries!

No problem! Hope it can help! And you speak the truth on the MMJ cost. My saving grace is that I can take much less of the MJ than the CBD, in that it has longer legs for me. But man, if I still knew where to find it on the street, hell yeah I'd save some money haha.

Hey, Ballz- I haven't been around much on Double M recently and just read your post. Sorry to hear that you're going through that and hope you heal up fast. There's a lot of helpful and informed responses here already. But one thing I wanted to mention that echoes a bit of what's already been said, but as one who really used to suffer with spine issues (I finally had to give in to 2 surgeries around 7 years ago), the one thing I find that really helps is changing up the way i keep my pain at bay. I use a mixture of kratom (and for me, virtually all kratom, regardless of "strain" provides some degree of pain relief, though I do prefer greens and reds) along with stretching, walking, home PT exercises, cannabis, therapeutic massage when I can afford to treat myself, acupuncture, hot and cold (particularly wet heat and ice, ESPECIALLY ice, one of the greatest natural pain relievers if you do a good 15-20 minutes at a time).

I would imagine you're pretty limited in what you can do at the moment (wondering if you've even begun PT yet), but as you continue to heal, having a mixed repertoire of things you can do for yourself really helps. As I've said here many times before, since I discovered Kratom a couple of years ago, I have not used a single pain pill (I used to take a fair, though not crazy amount of percocet). It's been a real help to me, though I've recently had to stop for a while to get some BP stuff straightened out. Feel better and feel free to shoot me a PM if I can be of any help in terms of sharing my experiences......I've been working with my spine and related pain for 20 years now (I'm an "old guy" too....turning 60 in a few weeks).

BallzDeep9 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 10:59 pm Hey folks. I'm now joining the Chronic Pain Club, unfortunately a couple days ago guess I tore my shoulder/ rotator cuff. Just got X-ray back today, there is no break, some Arthritis (I'm really old!) so... Doc wants to start me on Physical Therapy asap before even doing an MRI - today I said well let's go ahead with MRI. Doc thinks it's possibly a thing called Frozen Shoulder, but pretty sure I tore something... either way... I'm looking at months or even years ?? Can't raise my arm above waist, PAIN so bad I can't sleep much.

Years ago, I had a back injury at the Gym... did not set bar collar while doing squats. Yep, real dumb, common weight lifting injury... Took me years to recover and I could not even tie my shoes for 6 months! That was back in the 90s, when I got started on Vicodin and Oxy etc

Anyway I've been taking Kratom for mood suipport, mainly, but now.... Chronic Pain. Please, if anyone has any tips, post here. For starters I bumped up my dose, and taking one Ibuprofen 200 mg, NSAID pain reliever and anti inflammatory, for my injury... Helps, but I'm worried about the Tolerance bug, going back to 20 gpd (that's a lot for me) and losing kratom's effect, we all know Tolerance is a issue.

Brewed Tea, does seem to have more pain relieving effects? Compared to plain powder? I'm using Aeropress for Tea... also guess I might get more Bent's and heavy red's as they seem to work better for pain. Thanks everyone!

How is your rotator cuff, Ballz? That happened in January but I know it takes quite a while to rehabilitate?

VerbalQuicksand wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:14 pm

instantKARMA wrote: Thanks for the advise! I'll definitely look into CBD and give it a try. I've kind of avoided CBD due to the excessive cost that
BallzDeep9 mentioned, but I'm still going to try it! I have some stomach issues so CBD would definitely be safer than
ibuprofen! I was prescribed Meloxicam and then Celebrax in the past and they both caused stomach issues. So far, Ibuprofen
hasn't, but it's still a concern! I normally only take it once per day, usually in the middle of the night. Maybe that's why it hasn't
bothered me like the Meloxicam and Celebrax...and both of them are stronger than Ibuprofen.

After watching a couple of my friends go through shoulder surgery, I avoid it like the plague. Both of them went
through a world of hurt for several months after having surgery...much worse than what I tolerate, so I'm not in any hurry
to go that route.

Karma, I too found CBD to be cost prohibitive until I found Lazarus Naturals. They offer an assistance program for veterans, those on long term disability, and those with low income. I fell into the last bracket. Regardless of how you qualify everyone gets the same 60% off. It was a lifesaver until I got on my states medical Marijuana list. If I'm remembering correctly it only took a couple days for Lazarus to approve me.

I don't know if that might help you, but I figured I'd let ya know! Their CBD is high quality too.

This.

BallzDeep9 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 10:59 pm Hey folks. I'm now joining the Chronic Pain Club, unfortunately a couple days ago guess I tore my shoulder/ rotator cuff. Just got X-ray back today, there is no break, some Arthritis (I'm really old!) so... Doc wants to start me on Physical Therapy asap before even doing an MRI - today I said well let's go ahead with MRI. Doc thinks it's possibly a thing called Frozen Shoulder, but pretty sure I tore something... either way... I'm looking at months or even years ?? Can't raise my arm above waist, PAIN so bad I can't sleep much.

Years ago, I had a back injury at the Gym... did not set bar collar while doing squats. Yep, real dumb, common weight lifting injury... Took me years to recover and I could not even tie my shoes for 6 months! That was back in the 90s, when I got started on Vicodin and Oxy etc

Anyway I've been taking Kratom for mood suipport, mainly, but now.... Chronic Pain. Please, if anyone has any tips, post here. For starters I bumped up my dose, and taking one Ibuprofen 200 mg, NSAID pain reliever and anti inflammatory, for my injury... Helps, but I'm worried about the Tolerance bug, going back to 20 gpd (that's a lot for me) and losing kratom's effect, we all know Tolerance is a issue.

Brewed Tea, does seem to have more pain relieving effects? Compared to plain powder? I'm using Aeropress for Tea... also guess I might get more Bent's and heavy red's as they seem to work better for pain. Thanks everyone!

Only because i recently got into extracts will i recommend extracts. I know your worried about the tolerance issue but I promise after getting more involved into extracts its really not as big of a deal as reported. If used moderately/responsibly you will be fine. The widespread tolerance issue with extracts is that some people really abuse extracts and go all in over the top with them. Just like powder some people use way too much and then are stuck with tolerance issues there too.

I have noticed that extracts really do provide AWESOME relief (75mg + of Mitragynine) and are hands down great for knocking you out (100mg+/- of Mitragynine) if needed in the evenings. They provided me the biggest most consistent mood boosts time after time from 50mg to 75mg. For me personally you can achieve energy with a lower level of mood boost from 25mg to 75mg. The effects of extracts are slightly different then that of powder, the effects are more focused where as powder is what i would call full spectrum, so even if you use too much extract within the week the effects from powder are something that seems new again. In your situation a stable product with set amounts of mitragynine would really help over powder's varying levels. With your years of kratom use i highly recommend a good extract. Shoot me a email i would love to send you a small sample maybe 1 or 2 to try.

CatfatherB wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:37 am How is your rotator cuff, Ballz? That happened in January but I know it takes quite a while to rehabilitate?

Thank you for asking. I had to do Physical Therapy sessions and it slowly recovered over a couple weeks~! Only had 3-4 days of severe pain where I could not rollover in bed. After PT I could Lift my arm again - Glad it wasn't "frozen shoulder" as I was mis-diagnosed by a Doc.

Over past month I'm doing more & more Aeropress Tea, which is a kind-of kitchen extract... working on maybe a Youtube tutorial!