Batches w/Alkaloid Profile

[Kruh-Tom]

Anyone know of a vender that tests their batches and lists the corresponding alkaloid profiles? At least for Mitragynine, Paynantheine, Speciogynine, and anything else of significance?

Just got a new order from a well known vendor and it made me feel awful. Just crazy stimulated and dysphoric for almost an entire day from 2.5 grams. Mixed a few different bags together (red/green/gold/bent) so I haven't isolated which one it was. If I get the courage to try the bags individually to find the culprits, I'll be sure to make a vendor review. Though, I halfway just want to post the vendor and the strains without trying them again. Let the vendor try them and comment which ones the doozy. They can't miss it lol.

Anyways, I'd pay a premium to reliably never have that happen again. So yeah, anyone know of a vendor who tests for alkaloids? Would love to get a feel for different ratios and the effects they produce. Enough of this strain nonsense.

[Fallguy]

Afaik the one's worth ordering from on here test.

[Kruh-Tom]

For alkaloid profiles? Which vendors?

[GreatIAm33]

Anyone know of a vender that tests their batches and lists the corresponding alkaloid profiles? At least for Mitragynine, Paynantheine, Speciogynine, and anything else of significance?

Just got a new order from a well known vendor and it made me feel awful. Just crazy stimulated and dysphoric for almost an entire day from 2.5 grams. Mixed a few different bags together (red/green/gold/bent) so I haven't isolated which one it was. If I get the courage to try the bags individually to find the culprits, I'll be sure to make a vendor review. Though, I halfway just want to post the vendor and the strains without trying them again. Let the vendor try them and comment which ones the doozy. They can't miss it lol.

Anyways, I'd pay a premium to reliably never have that happen again. So yeah, anyone know of a vendor who tests for alkaloids? Would love to get a feel for different ratios and the effects they produce. Enough of this strain nonsense.

Every test result that I've seen only covers mit% and 7ohm

[Fallguy]

I know the trusted vendors on here "test" there product. I only have tfh and Lucky's currently, I know tfh tests but I've never seen the results. I just looked up lucky's and They have heavy metals, yeast/mold, ecoli, and more harmful crap + 7ohm/mit.

[Kruh-Tom]

Yes, some vendors list the % of Mitragynine and 7ohm. And while that is somewhat beneficial, it does not qualify as an alkaloid profile. There are dozens of alkaloids in kratom.

And btw, the 7ohm content is usually below the threshold range, so that % is usually inconsequential. It is hypothesized that any 7ohm effects are likely due to Mitragynine being converted into 7ohm by the liver. The liver also converts Mitragynine into Mitragynine Pseudoindoxyl, which like 7ohm, also interacts with the MOR.

So the only relevant alkaloid commonly tested is Mitragynine. But this does nothing to explain the range of kratom effects. With so many other alkaloids, some of which competing with one another for priority, and others potentially affecting the enzymatic conversion of Mitragynine, an actual alkaloid profile is necessary to reliably predict the effects of any given batch.

So yeah, looking for real deal alkaloid profiles.

[Fallguy]

@Kruh-Tom Wow! Thank you for the info, very interesting. Now I have more to add to my to-learn list.

[Kalico]

Lucky Herbals current lab report has a more complete profile

https://luckyherbals.com/labs072021

[Bubba5150]

Yes, Lucky Herbals list all the individual alkaloids and even sums them as a total alkaloid content of the batch tested. I did not click that link above but did view the current test results which are posted on his website yesterday.

[Transformato]

You really can't get reliable read on effects from a lab report from the small sample they send in. Maybe a clue but hardly a portrait.

Over time, and after I branched out from "newbie" vendors I sometimes came across a vendor or a single product that really threw me. I still do. I've come to appreciate these though because I figured out ways to use them. All but a couple I got early this year.

Learn the lesson though. Don't do a regular dose on breaking the seal on new product. Aim for undewhelm and plan to add more after a full hour. It's hardly a sacrifice you can't cope with . That's how you should find your target dose too and lemme tell you it's a far better and more consistent experience once you figure that out and stop ramping up dose levels. The dud dose will still happen someties though regardless.

I've told this story before...It definitely happens. I have a freak batch of some Red Zareena that I only use as a "cherry on top" You won't believe me but I use it like .03g added last as a blend component to some blends. (my now stable dose for 4+ years is 1.75g so I"m a grateful light weight) It's an effective boost for relief that I usually notice - crazy strong but it has fast & strong combined so it remains a daytime or high pain thing for me. Someone else at that time told me she used a much lower dose than normal and it was great. I coulnd't even do that. I"m still pinching but loving it.

If you've ever had an aquarium... use the acclimation analogy. Work stuff your sensitive to or the unknown in with other stuff just a little at a time. Forget what anyone will think. No such thing as adding too little. It gives you time to adapt and let your perceptions make room for it. Sure it could be "bad" but it's probably a gem in the rough. And it's raw material anyway. The buyer is the researcher and manufacturer.

In five years I have only two I haven't found use for and so happens were really fast but all nerve and not energy. Both came from the same source last Feb and I haven't continued messing w it bc of the bad mood it gives me every time. I think he bought some "third party Indonesian playing middle man and selling un blended shit or young leaf but I'll mess w it later. I've never had that happen before.

Most rare- something I have to use TINY amount but that way it makes a blend very special or useful in a particular way. And its' still that way this time next year. (I have just ONE like that and it's > 4 years old)

Less rare- It's super strong and hard to blend with bc it takes over at first. I keep it in "acclimation" mode for a month or two before I start using more and it becomes a favourite - remains very economical but can now get more benefit using normal amounts.

[KCobbBMore]

Yes, Lucky Herbals list all the individual alkaloids and even sums them as a total alkaloid content of the batch tested. I did not click that link above but did view the current test results which are posted on his website yesterday.

Yes!! I just noticed that yesterday, it was pretty cool to see
My knowledge is way too limited to understand, but it was interesting to see.

[Jfish030]

I know the trusted vendors on here "test" there product. I only have tfh and Lucky's currently, I know tfh tests but I've never seen the results. I just looked up lucky's and They have heavy metals, yeast/mold, ecoli, and more harmful crap + 7ohm/mit.

Has anyone seend TFH test results?! Ive never heard anyone seeing them, which is at the least non transparent.

[Sanbutsushin]

I imagine you could just... ask for them. There's no reason to withhold them so I doubt that's what they're doing.

[Fallguy]

I know the trusted vendors on here "test" there product. I only have tfh and Lucky's currently, I know tfh tests but I've never seen the results. I just looked up lucky's and They have heavy metals, yeast/mold, ecoli, and more harmful crap + 7ohm/mit.

Has anyone seend TFH test results?! Ive never heard anyone seeing them, which is at the least non transparent.

I've never asked.

[gumbyke1]

I just noticed that Lucky uses that same lab as us.... very nice Ben! Its a lab that uses Real-time PCR detection for pathogens like Salmonella, which is considered the "gold standard" for pathogen detection (it is up to 1,000 times more sensitive than some of the other antiqued pathogen detection methods that some labs still use).

[gumbyke1]

I know the trusted vendors on here "test" there product. I only have tfh and Lucky's currently, I know tfh tests but I've never seen the results. I just looked up lucky's and They have heavy metals, yeast/mold, ecoli, and more harmful crap + 7ohm/mit.

Has anyone seend TFH test results?! Ive never heard anyone seeing them, which is at the least non transparent.

I've never asked.

Ask and though shall receive. Here is a sample from our latest round of labs....

[Jfish030]

Has anyone seend TFH test results?! Ive never heard anyone seeing them, which is at the least non transparent.

I've never asked.

Ask and though shall receive. Here is a sample from our latest round of labs....

That is one of the highest Mitra% I have ever seen for a red strain!! How much higher are your green/whites? Im blown away, never seen a 2.0% red none the less 2.2%

Is Red lot 21519, 5/19/21??

[gumbyke1]

It's not a "true red" as in an oxidized batch... it's a green powder. I's just red in the name that was the "color" given by the supplier - which are basically meaningless. Anything over 2% is pretty high, but it's not like we see that all the time.

We just got these batches in, the lot number being translated to a date is just a coincidence - very perceptive though!

On a side note - from what I have gathered, mitragynine testing can be notoriously unreliable. It was explained to me that it takes a skilled technician and the correct calibration of equipment between every sample to get accurate results. I'll see if I can find it, but a long time ago in a private vendor chat there was an experiment conducted with sending the same samples to multiple labs. With that, I never reccomend mitragynine content alone as a good measure for quality. One of my favorite batches was a Green Hulu from Ben at Lucky Herbals sometime last year and it only had something like a 1.3% something mitra content. (If my memory serves me correctly...I'm sure Ben will correct me if I'm wrong).

[LuckyHerbals]

Yessir! It was a verrry intoxicating batch of Green Hulu! It was the 100919 (October 9, 2019) batch, and it only came in at 1.18% mitragynine. The funniest part of it was the fact that it was 95% our base green, and 5% of the base fermented red. The green by itself was a little underwhelming for me, so it was definitely the alkaloid profile of the weaker fermented red! Crazy! That is just further evidence that we know so little about kratom alkaloids, and their effects. Although labs can be interesting, we care more about heavy metals, pathogens, and yeast / mold more than anything else. The rest is just geek data that honestly is completely irrelevant once you start blending.

On a side note, we have stuck to that same ratio of green and red for this particular strain throughout all batch releases since 2018, and it has made this particular strain #2 on our popularity for 3 years now.

Not every batch has a purely fermented red, we rarely carry those anymore. But Green Hulu always consists of 95% base green and 5% base red.