Double M Herbals | Kratom Forum

Hi folks. I'm Herba Rosa, a new vendor to this website.

There are 4 scams I know of, that you should be aware of.
Many of you probably already are aware. Most of these scams take place when someone from a western nation attempts to purchase kratom straight from Indonesia,
but it can even happen in the USA - with distributors, and even vendors, shafting vendors and consumers alike.



4 KRATOM SCAMS


1) FAKE Test Results (most common)
---> Let’s say I, as a vendor, buy kratom from a distributor and ask for test results. They might look fine and legitimate when I see them, but there is a good chance they could be altered or even recycled several times over from previous batches.
The only way to know for sure that your kratom is safe is by getting it tested yourself, like I do with Herba Rosa. But it’s important to use a lab with a good reputation.

2) Mixing Their Kratom with Additives
---> You might get a batch of kratom powder and think, “Hey, this stuff is great!” Only, in some cases, the reason it’s so potent is because they added extract, or even other substances (like fentanyl), without telling you.

3) The "Take Your Money and Run" Scam
---> Exactly how it sounds

4) The “Bait and Switch” scam (least common, but most costly for you)
---> You like the samples they sent you, so you tell them you want to buy some. You send the money, and actually receive the shipment. Unfortunately, it’s trash quality and nothing like the samples.

I'm a very observant man, and a fast learner when it comes to business.
I either learned about these scams from mentors or they are a product of my paranoid imagination.


---

Have any of you encountered any of these scams? How about any other scam I didn't mention?

I'm sure we'd all love to hear about it in the comments

How would someone evenly distribute fentanyl in a batch of kratom? Asking for a friend.

I wouldn’t consider this a scam per say. Buying spiked stateside bulk leaf,photoshopping lab results,then selling it all as premium leaf. That’s a big problem in this scene.

I have a kratom group on fb and a member has done some research and found several vendors are giving the same address as their testing lab certificate results. Those results are supposed to be an independent third-party

Rkaltenbach wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 2:59 pm I have a kratom group on fb and a member has done some research and found several vendors are giving the same address as their testing lab certificate results. Those results are supposed to be an independent third-party

Yup quite a few vendors are buying stateside bulk from a big supplier and using the lab test from them by photoshopping there company names on to them. Super sketchy.

Rhino236 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 3:03 pm

Rkaltenbach wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 2:59 pm I have a kratom group on fb and a member has done some research and found several vendors are giving the same address as their testing lab certificate results. Those results are supposed to be an independent third-party

Yup quite a few vendors are buying stateside bulk from a big supplier and using the lab test from them by photoshopping there company names on to them. Super sketchy.

That is soooo dangerous! I know you can't post names but I would love to know so that I never ever buy from that vendor

Rhino236 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 2:12 pm I wouldn’t consider this a scam per say. Buying spiked stateside bulk leaf,photoshopping lab results,then selling it all as premium leaf. That’s a big problem in this scene.

That is a big problem right now. That is why I am leery about who I do business with. There seems to be a lot of shady pop up "tax return" vendors. Someone in a field that has no crossover with Kratom gets a couple thousand dollars and thinks they are going to start an empire out of their apartment. Most vendors I know have other full time jobs/careers. Its called adulting, there are no shortcuts to success.

As far as people adding fentanyl, it is an Urban Legend.
It couldn't be distributed evenly throughout.
Many people would die.
It wouldn't financially make sense for anyone to add something more expensive.
There has never been an instance that anyone can prove this actually happened.
Many people who use Kratom are NOT looking for any sort of "high" or wanting to feel like they are on "dope" or whatever so it would only be appealing to a limited number of the Kratom market.
The penalties for doing this are extremely serious, especially if someome dies from it.

Rkaltenbach wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 2:59 pm I have a kratom group on fb and a member has done some research and found several vendors are giving the same address as their testing lab certificate results. Those results are supposed to be an independent third-party

All people need to do is look at the kabs posted on some vendor websites. Some are cocky enough to even post the exact same ones.

Rkaltenbach wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 3:06 pm

Rhino236 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 3:03 pm

Rkaltenbach wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 2:59 pm I have a kratom group on fb and a member has done some research and found several vendors are giving the same address as their testing lab certificate results. Those results are supposed to be an independent third-party

Yup quite a few vendors are buying stateside bulk from a big supplier and using the lab test from them by photoshopping there company names on to them. Super sketchy.

That is soooo dangerous! I know you can't post names but I would love to know so that I never ever buy from that vendor

One of them is on here. But I couldn’t in good faith call them out as a fellow vendor. What funny is people are claiming its fire,what they don’t know is there buying bulk tarp dried leaf most likely spiked with extract. It’s literally 2 maybe 3 bulk strains all relabeled with different names. So ever single “strain, they buy is literally the exact same leaf. It’s sad really and very dishonest.I’ve seen the modified lab test and the original that they used.

Rhino236 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 3:11 pm
One of them is on here. But I couldn’t in good faith call them out as a fellow vendor. What funny is people are claiming its fire,what they don’t know is there buying bulk tarp dried leaf most likely spiked with extract. It’s literally 2 maybe 3 bulk strains all relabeled with different names. So ever single “strain, they buy is literally the exact same leaf. It’s sad really and very dishonest.I’ve seen the modified lab test and the original that they used.

Rhino236 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 3:11 pm

Rkaltenbach wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 3:06 pm

Rhino236 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 3:03 pm

Yup quite a few vendors are buying stateside bulk from a big supplier and using the lab test from them by photoshopping there company names on to them. Super sketchy.

That is soooo dangerous! I know you can't post names but I would love to know so that I never ever buy from that vendor

One of them is on here. But I couldn’t in good faith call them out as a fellow vendor. What funny is people are claiming its fire,what they don’t know is there buying bulk tarp dried leaf most likely spiked with extract. It’s literally 2 maybe 3 bulk strains all relabeled with different names. So ever single “strain, they buy is literally the exact same leaf. It’s sad really and very dishonest.I’ve seen the modified lab test and the original that they used.

You should name them. There's a handful of respected vendors here and you're at the top of the list. It would help keep us all safe. This is what this site was made for.

ba2000 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 3:36 pm

Rhino236 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 3:11 pm

Rkaltenbach wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 3:06 pm

That is soooo dangerous! I know you can't post names but I would love to know so that I never ever buy from that vendor

One of them is on here. But I couldn’t in good faith call them out as a fellow vendor. What funny is people are claiming its fire,what they don’t know is there buying bulk tarp dried leaf most likely spiked with extract. It’s literally 2 maybe 3 bulk strains all relabeled with different names. So ever single “strain, they buy is literally the exact same leaf. It’s sad really and very dishonest.I’ve seen the modified lab test and the original that they used.

You should name them. There's a handful of respected vendors here and you're at the top of the list. It would help keep us all safe. This is what this site was made for.

I agree!!! Especially since I ordered from two I found here. Now I'm very concerned

Rkaltenbach wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 3:39 pm

ba2000 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 3:36 pm

Rhino236 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 3:11 pm

One of them is on here. But I couldn’t in good faith call them out as a fellow vendor. What funny is people are claiming its fire,what they don’t know is there buying bulk tarp dried leaf most likely spiked with extract. It’s literally 2 maybe 3 bulk strains all relabeled with different names. So ever single “strain, they buy is literally the exact same leaf. It’s sad really and very dishonest.I’ve seen the modified lab test and the original that they used.

You should name them. There's a handful of respected vendors here and you're at the top of the list. It would help keep us all safe. This is what this site was made for.

I agree!!! Especially since I ordered from two I found here. Now I'm very concerned

I also agree , i dont want to support shady vendors ( i just found out today that i did support that vendor) and i feel awful..

lavender wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 3:56 pm

Rkaltenbach wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 3:39 pm

ba2000 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 3:36 pm

You should name them. There's a handful of respected vendors here and you're at the top of the list. It would help keep us all safe. This is what this site was made for.

I agree!!! Especially since I ordered from two I found here. Now I'm very concerned

I also agree , i dont want to support shady vendors ( i just found out today that i did support that vendor) and i feel awful..

Well I guess I only had a window to PM someone here.
Anyway, I think I will be adding Rhino
to my trusted vendor list

Rhino236 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 3:11 pm One of them is on here. But I couldn’t in good faith call them out as a fellow vendor. What funny is people are claiming its fire,what they don’t know is there buying bulk tarp dried leaf most likely spiked with extract. It’s literally 2 maybe 3 bulk strains all relabeled with different names. So ever single “strain, they buy is literally the exact same leaf. It’s sad really and very dishonest.I’ve seen the modified lab test and the original that they used.

Oof, I would also like to know who as I do buy a lot of kratom from various vendors on here. I'm sure I speak for a lot of us here that we trust your judgment on these things Rhino

I’m glad I didn’t fall for probably cause there was always something that seemed real super sus with that guy

Rhino236 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 3:11 pm

Rkaltenbach wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 3:06 pm

Rhino236 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 3:03 pm

Yup quite a few vendors are buying stateside bulk from a big supplier and using the lab test from them by photoshopping there company names on to them. Super sketchy.

That is soooo dangerous! I know you can't post names but I would love to know so that I never ever buy from that vendor

One of them is on here. But I couldn’t in good faith call them out as a fellow vendor. What funny is people are claiming its fire,what they don’t know is there buying bulk tarp dried leaf most likely spiked with extract. It’s literally 2 maybe 3 bulk strains all relabeled with different names. So ever single “strain, they buy is literally the exact same leaf. It’s sad really and very dishonest.I’ve seen the modified lab test and the original that they used.

That has been one of my fears, I'm semi new to kratom (8months) I rely on members reviews here and mewe on different vendors to try. I use kratom medicinally.

Rkaltenbach wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 4:05 pm

lavender wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 3:56 pm

Rkaltenbach wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 3:39 pm

I agree!!! Especially since I ordered from two I found here. Now I'm very concerned

I also agree , i dont want to support shady vendors ( i just found out today that i did support that vendor) and i feel awful..

Well I guess I only had a window to PM someone here.
Anyway, I think I will be adding Rhino
to my trusted vendor list

Rhino has GREAT stuff. He is also honest and cares. I haven't been doing business with him that long but I am sure many people can vouch for him. There are some awesome vendors around.

Rkaltenbach wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 4:05 pm
Well I guess I only had a window to PM someone here.
Anyway, I think I will be adding Rhino
to my trusted vendor list

Rhino is seriously great!! All around nice to deal with, honest and exceptional product quality! I 100% feel comfortable recommending him and his leaf, have placed multiple orders in past month and half and will continue to in future! Rhino, Lsms, and HL are some of the nicest people/vendors I’ve met in the community! Thank you guys for all you do!!

Dpninja711 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 4:25 pm

Rkaltenbach wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 4:05 pm
Well I guess I only had a window to PM someone here.
Anyway, I think I will be adding Rhino
to my trusted vendor list

Rhino is seriously great!! All around nice to deal with, honest and exceptional product quality! I 100% feel comfortable recommending him and his leaf, have placed multiple orders in past month and half and will continue to in future! Rhino, Lsms, and HL are some of the nicest people/vendors I’ve met in the community! Thank you guys for all you do!!

I completely agree! I've had the best experience ordering from, HL, LSMS, Rhino, Denette & Soul. Just really hope that none of them are the one that's dishonest about their product.

Dpninja711 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 4:25 pm

Rkaltenbach wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 4:05 pm
Well I guess I only had a window to PM someone here.
Anyway, I think I will be adding Rhino
to my trusted vendor list

Rhino is seriously great!! All around nice to deal with, honest and exceptional product quality! I 100% feel comfortable recommending him and his leaf, have placed multiple orders in past month and half and will continue to in future! Rhino, Lsms, and HL are some of the nicest people/vendors I’ve met in the community! Thank you guys for all you do!!

I'm sure he is but he's seems to have blocked me from the private messaging. I'm not sure why

I can assure you Ive never been dishonest about anything regarding my product. Those who know me understand Im a decent guy just trying to contribute to this community. I hope whomever this is gets banned immediately

Rkaltenbach wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 4:54 pm

Dpninja711 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 4:25 pm

Rkaltenbach wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 4:05 pm
Well I guess I only had a window to PM someone here.
Anyway, I think I will be adding Rhino
to my trusted vendor list

Rhino is seriously great!! All around nice to deal with, honest and exceptional product quality! I 100% feel comfortable recommending him and his leaf, have placed multiple orders in past month and half and will continue to in future! Rhino, Lsms, and HL are some of the nicest people/vendors I’ve met in the community! Thank you guys for all you do!!

I'm sure he is but he's seems to have blocked me from the private messaging. I'm not sure why

I didn’t block you. Just been super busy and haven’t had time to respond to your last DM

Rhino236 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 5:03 pm

Rkaltenbach wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 4:54 pm

Dpninja711 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 4:25 pm

Rhino is seriously great!! All around nice to deal with, honest and exceptional product quality! I 100% feel comfortable recommending him and his leaf, have placed multiple orders in past month and half and will continue to in future! Rhino, Lsms, and HL are some of the nicest people/vendors I’ve met in the community! Thank you guys for all you do!!

I'm sure he is but he's seems to have blocked me from the private messaging. I'm not sure why

I didn’t block you. Just been super busy and haven’t had time to respond to your last DM

Oh jeez. Sorry. First time I have ever used the PM and one didn't seem to go anywhere. It's not even in my sent box. Sorry I jumped to that conclusion

Denette615 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 5:02 pm I can assure you Ive never been dishonest about anything regarding my product. Those who know me understand Im a decent guy just trying to contribute to this community. I hope whomever this is gets banned immediately

I woll vouch for Denette and I am sure many othets will as well!

Denette615 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 5:02 pm I can assure you Ive never been dishonest about anything regarding my product. Those who know me understand Im a decent guy just trying to contribute to this community. I hope whomever this is gets banned immediately

I highly doubt anyone on this sub would question your integrity. I'm not even a customer yet, but I know your stripes through your comments in the past.

ba2000 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 5:30 pm

Denette615 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 5:02 pm I can assure you Ive never been dishonest about anything regarding my product. Those who know me understand Im a decent guy just trying to contribute to this community. I hope whomever this is gets banned immediately

I highly doubt anyone on this sub would question your integrity. I'm not even a customer yet, but I know your stripes through your comments in the past.

I would say exactly the same!! I set a reminder for his open event!

Denette615 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 5:02 pm I can assure you Ive never been dishonest about anything regarding my product. Those who know me understand Im a decent guy just trying to contribute to this community. I hope whomever this is gets banned immediately

I'm positive that you're a genuine person, I've ordered more than once from you and all has been positive for me. And you're responsive, which is very satisfying as a customer.

Denette615 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 5:02 pm I can assure you Ive never been dishonest about anything regarding my product. Those who know me understand Im a decent guy just trying to contribute to this community. I hope whomever this is gets banned immediately

D has been great also, I’ve only ordered twice and still kicking myself for not ordering more when I had the chance lol! He was nice enough to let me order past deadline of his last open event and I’m truly grateful! I had just joined MM the day after his event was over, he’s quick to respond and his product quality is exceptional, love the generous samples also

I've been alerted as to the identity of the vendor who is being accused of label-swapping and using photoshopped lab results. Now I need someone to come forward with concrete proof of this going on so I can blacklist them from the double m. We take blacklisting very seriously, but we do not operate on rumors or hearsay. This is a serious claim and if it's true, I don't want them here anymore than you guys do.

Blacklisting means the vendor is banned, their posts are nuked, all reviews of them are taken down, and finally a public post is made warning consumers not to purchase from them. Then they are forbidden from ever doing business here again. So as you can see, it's a serious process.

By not naming the vendor who your are accusing of this, you are potentially impacting the business of a lot of vendors. As someone who commonly buys based on recommendations and good reviews here, I now don’t know who I can trust and who I can’t. Not sure why you can’t name them because of some vendor code, but you feel comfortable dragging all the other vendors into this. Just look at Denette, he had to come out and defend himself. How is that fair to all the honest, hard working vendors here?

e_poison wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:56 pm I've been alerted as to the identity of the vendor who is being accused of label-swapping and using photoshopped lab results. Now I need someone to come forward with concrete proof of this going on so I can blacklist them from the double m. We take blacklisting very seriously, but we do not operate on rumors or hearsay. This is a serious claim and if it's true, I don't want them here anymore than you guys do.

Blacklisting means the vendor is banned, their posts are nuked, all reviews of them are taken down, and finally a public post is made warning consumers not to purchase from them. Then they are forbidden from ever doing business here again. So as you can see, it's a serious process.

I'm not sure how we can help without knowing who?
I have a Facebook kratom group and this morning someone asked a question about labs. Apparently her friend has found several who's lab address as well as their business address are the same. Those can not be safe vendors.
Another person caught a vendor, not in the group, with fake Googled labs

This is dangerous for all and I'm sure everyone would love to help if they could.

I have no idea which vendors to trust which ones have high quality product i have a budget I'm new to kratom and withdrawling I need to order tomorrow and have fast shipping or purchase locally can someone please help me... im looking for a half kilo for a fair price or kilo for a banging price i want to join luckyherbals but cannot sign up for there sale tomorrow...

Rockcrete88 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 9:05 pm By not naming the vendor who your are accusing of this, you are potentially impacting the business of a lot of vendors. As someone who commonly buys based on recommendations and good reviews here, I now don’t know who I can trust and who I can’t. Not sure why you can’t name them because of some vendor code, but you feel comfortable dragging all the other vendors into this. Just look at Denette, he had to come out and defend himself. How is that fair to all the honest, hard working vendors here?

This might be a tad aggressive. You know the respected vendors here. I wanted him to name them at first, but e_poison is on it. Guaranteed the person he's talking about doesn't touch this thread.

Beforedeth wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 9:31 pm I have no idea which vendors to trust which ones have high quality product i have a budget I'm new to kratom and withdrawling I need to order tomorrow and have fast shipping or purchase locally can someone please help me... im looking for a half kilo for a fair price or kilo for a banging price i want to join luckyherbals but cannot sign up for there sale tomorrow...

Make a post in General Discussion, this isn't the thread to ask this, really.

e_poison wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:56 pm I've been alerted as to the identity of the vendor who is being accused of label-swapping and using photoshopped lab results. Now I need someone to come forward with concrete proof of this going on so I can blacklist them from the double m. We take blacklisting very seriously, but we do not operate on rumors or hearsay. This is a serious claim and if it's true, I don't want them here anymore than you guys do.

Blacklisting means the vendor is banned, their posts are nuked, all reviews of them are taken down, and finally a public post is made warning consumers not to purchase from them. Then they are forbidden from ever doing business here again. So as you can see, it's a serious process.

I emailed you.

Rockcrete88 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 9:05 pm By not naming the vendor who your are accusing of this, you are potentially impacting the business of a lot of vendors. As someone who commonly buys based on recommendations and good reviews here, I now don’t know who I can trust and who I can’t. Not sure why you can’t name them because of some vendor code, but you feel comfortable dragging all the other vendors into this. Just look at Denette, he had to come out and defend himself. How is that fair to all the honest, hard working vendors here?

I think we all can come to the conclusion it’s not Denette. He’s actually one of my best friends I work along side, and one of the most vetted vendors on here. This also isn’t any of the long standing vendors that have been serving Double M . It’s a newer vendor that claims everything is premium and has been super sketch from the get go. Also I’ve never dragged anyone through the mud. Which is exactly why I didn’t blow up the said person publicly. I’ve emailed E Poison about everything and we’ll let him make the decision.

I have encountered the bait and switch scam many times and it is always pretty damn disappointing. Even reputable vendors have pulled this kinda stuff on me throughout the years and this type of shit is pretty common sadly. I get that there is batch variance but when you order a green strain that you loved from the samples and you receive brown looking weak stale shit leaf with the same batch number and strain labeled on it, it becomes blatantly obvious. As far as other scams I luckily haven't really encountered any in my 7 years of using kratom other than the fake labs and bullshit mitragynine percentages, which again is also very common. Also no one is mixing kratom with fentanyl or other opioids lol.

Herba Rosa wrote: ↑Sun Aug 29, 2021 11:21 pm There are 4 scams I know of, that you should be aware of.
4 KRATOM SCAMS

1) FAKE Test Results (most common) The only way to know for sure that your kratom is safe is by getting it tested yourself, like I do with Herba Rosa. But it’s important to use a lab with a good reputation.

2) Mixing Their Kratom with Additives

Back to the original Post ... "Lab Testing" is not really needed. . Pour boiled water over your powder, 180º for 5 minutes kills all pathogens.

That being said, I agree Lab Testing is a SCAM, as currently done by many vendors... It's mainly Marketing BS for the Facebook folks who made a big deal about Lab Testing 3 years ago. After several "Big Kratom" vendors got caught selling Salmonella. Since then - with Container shipping only makes it worse. Testing 50 grams out of a 20 Ton load ? Means what ?? Absolutely nothing.

That gets into... GMP "Good Manufacturing Practices" a buzzword the AKA uses, to bash smaller vendors... while promoting their Retail head-shop vendors. NONE of those AKA vendors appear as cGMP - since a core Assessment in Botanical Agricultural, collection practices - IS transparent records & identification of every source, every Supplier... every "farm" and every tree. Show me 1 AKA vendor with any such documentation ?? None. It's all BS!

For anyone who's curious HERE are the AHPA Guidelines for cGMP. Yes they're pretty complex. https://ahpa.org/AHPAResources/GoodAgri ... tices.aspx

Which gets into... NFHC. Not For Human Consumption. . Every. Single. Vendor. here on MM, sells NFHC - right - Does everyone understand that ?? Go ahead look at websites. (Chat Room guys don't count, since they're not real vendors, they don't have a Terms & Conditions.) So the AKA is trying to say... their AKA vendors are selling Supplements ?? Capsules, etc for people? But wait... Kratom is NOT approved by the FDA!!

This is another complicated SCAM - Basically, WHEN the FDA ever does approve Kratom as a Supplement ?? Within weeks, AKA is gone... ALL these small vendors disappear, and we'll see Kratom sold in Walmart by big companies such as: Herb Pharm, Gaia Herbs, Rainbow Light Nutrition, New Chapter, etc.

Now... Mixing with Additives ?? Thank you for that. I got roasted pretty good here, recently... for even a tiny hint at "fent". I see their point, that word should not be associated with Kratom -- But O-DSMT well, it's been done, before. True. Then there's Extract, and the Indo's can and do make Extract. My opinion is... Whenever there's a vendor with strangely strong Kratom - yep. And dude turns out to be a crackhead tweaker ? In Jail busted for dope? Hmm. How's SoSa doing anyone seen him lately ? lol

A few vendors here do sell kratom as supplements for human consumption with recommended dosages.