Double M Herbals | Kratom Forum

I've used agmatine for WD before and it seems to help some symptoms, but it never really potentiated my kratom.

Anybody have any luck with anything? Have heard good things from tumeric but haven't tried it.

L-theanine works pretty good for me, and it's also nice to take on it's own (creates a soothing, calming effect). I started taking it a couple months ago and have noticed my burns are better.

I normally take 200mg after dinner and then go relax with some video games. Sometimes I mix it with caffeine for focus. It's pretty cheap on amazon, you can get 120 200mg capsules for about $10.

Rhodiola (standardized for salidrosides) can help with the boost, and the extracts of Passion Flower, Skullcap, Lemon Balm, and Magnolia Bark, can aid in feeling mellowed out. Theanine was mentioned above, and it is good.

Some other herbs are beneficial, often though a lot of their benefit isn't totally of the moment, and is more about the long term effects.

I take a couple of grams of powdered Ginger extract in the morning, and that offers really good bang for the buck.

Something fatty or oily works well for me. I take fish oil capsules. Honey is another that has worked.

I agree that L-theanine also is nice to have just on it's own. It lowers blood pressure, which is good because kratom raises it. I will have to take some with kratom and nothing else to see if I get better burns that way.

Agmatine works for keeping the pain relief the same at a lower dose of kratom, but it blocks the mood lift. Best used for tapering IMO. I've been taking it at night before bed. Hopefully it still helps lower tolerance that way.

Turmeric doesn't seem to do much for me, but again maybe I need to take just that and kratom to see.

Finally Black Seed oil is supposed to help with and withdrawal, but I like it for its anti-inflammatory properties: https://www.webmd.com/vitamins/ai/ingre ... black-seed

Apple cider vinegar is Amazing as a potentiater.Cheese also works really well.

PistolsAtDawn wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:33 pm Something fatty or oily works well for me. I take fish oil capsules. Honey is another that has worked.

I agree that L-theanine also is nice to have just on it's own. It lowers blood pressure, which is good because kratom raises it. I will have to take some with kratom and nothing else to see if I get better burns that way.

Agmatine works for keeping the pain relief the same at a lower dose of kratom, but it blocks the mood lift. Best used for tapering IMO. I've been taking it at night before bed. Hopefully it still helps lower tolerance that way.

Turmeric doesn't seem to do much for me, but again maybe I need to take just that and kratom to see.

Finally Black Seed oil is supposed to help with and withdrawal, but I like it for its anti-inflammatory properties: https://www.webmd.com/vitamins/ai/ingre ... black-seed

I've never seen anything about the mechanism by which kratom would cause high blood pressure, outside of mild adrenergic activity. All I've seen is CDC data which primarily collects data on associated factors, not causative factors, because that data is much more useful and can be parsed through.

So yes, it is a vasoconstrictor but that says nothing about the intensity of the pharmacodynamic effect. There's a similar issue I find with a lot of these herbal/natural medicines. Caffeine is a much, much more intense vasoconstrictor than kratom, but a lot of people with high blood pressure are able to drink it without issue, because even still, it is not that intense of an effect.

I really feel like it's a non-issue with kratom unless you are taking something like 10g doses and getting super sick and nauseous every single time, for some reason. Anecdotally I have had open heart surgery, and have not noticed a difference in the 7yrs I've been using kratom.

I am not saying kratom cannot cause high blood pressure, just that it usually seems not to. You will equally find studies saying that it lowers blood pressure. This study found that it only increased after hour 8, presumably when the kratom is about wearing off and you are beginning to go more into withdrawals. But that's just my guess.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4425236/

PistolsAtDawn wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:33 pm Something fatty or oily works well for me. I take fish oil capsules. Honey is another that has worked.

You know what, I take a lot of fat for THC/CBD edibles every day. I do feel like I notice a difference in effect when I take kratom alongside my MCT oil tincture, but I'm not sure if it's just in my head. I haven't really looked into it.

AVG bioavailability for kratom appears to be about 20-30% from a quick google search. So there is definitely room for improvement. I know mitragynine/7ho are not the most water soluble.

StringThing wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:10 pm I've never seen anything about the mechanism by which kratom would cause high blood pressure, outside of mild adrenergic activity. All I've seen is CDC data which primarily collects data on associated factors, not causative factors, because that data is much more useful and can be parsed through.

So yes, it is a vasoconstrictor but that says nothing about the intensity of the pharmacodynamic effect. There's a similar issue I find with a lot of these herbal/natural medicines. Caffeine is a much, much more intense vasoconstrictor than kratom, but a lot of people with high blood pressure are able to drink it without issue, because even still, it is not that intense of an effect.

I really feel like it's a non-issue with kratom unless you are taking something like 10g doses and getting super sick and nauseous every single time, for some reason. Anecdotally I have had open heart surgery, and have not noticed a difference in the 7yrs I've been using kratom.

I am not saying kratom cannot cause high blood pressure, just that it usually seems not to. You will equally find studies saying that it lowers blood pressure. This study found that it only increased after hour 8, presumably when the kratom is about wearing off and you are beginning to go more into withdrawals. But that's just my guess.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4425236/

Thanks for the info. I've seen both claims. That link you provided might be the most trustworthy info I've seen on this though.

PistolsAtDawn wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:24 pm

StringThing wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:10 pm I've never seen anything about the mechanism by which kratom would cause high blood pressure, outside of mild adrenergic activity. All I've seen is CDC data which primarily collects data on associated factors, not causative factors, because that data is much more useful and can be parsed through.

So yes, it is a vasoconstrictor but that says nothing about the intensity of the pharmacodynamic effect. There's a similar issue I find with a lot of these herbal/natural medicines. Caffeine is a much, much more intense vasoconstrictor than kratom, but a lot of people with high blood pressure are able to drink it without issue, because even still, it is not that intense of an effect.

I really feel like it's a non-issue with kratom unless you are taking something like 10g doses and getting super sick and nauseous every single time, for some reason. Anecdotally I have had open heart surgery, and have not noticed a difference in the 7yrs I've been using kratom.

I am not saying kratom cannot cause high blood pressure, just that it usually seems not to. You will equally find studies saying that it lowers blood pressure. This study found that it only increased after hour 8, presumably when the kratom is about wearing off and you are beginning to go more into withdrawals. But that's just my guess.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4425236/

Thanks for the info. I've seen both claims. That link you provided might be the most trustworthy info I've seen on this though.

Yea I really like figure 5 and 6 on there. As a kratom user, the timeline makes a lot of sense to me and seems to coincide with the effects I get from kratom.

If anyone is unfamiliar with how to read those graphs, it is called a box plot.

StringThing wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:32 pm

PistolsAtDawn wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:24 pm

StringThing wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:10 pm I've never seen anything about the mechanism by which kratom would cause high blood pressure, outside of mild adrenergic activity. All I've seen is CDC data which primarily collects data on associated factors, not causative factors, because that data is much more useful and can be parsed through.

So yes, it is a vasoconstrictor but that says nothing about the intensity of the pharmacodynamic effect. There's a similar issue I find with a lot of these herbal/natural medicines. Caffeine is a much, much more intense vasoconstrictor than kratom, but a lot of people with high blood pressure are able to drink it without issue, because even still, it is not that intense of an effect.

I really feel like it's a non-issue with kratom unless you are taking something like 10g doses and getting super sick and nauseous every single time, for some reason. Anecdotally I have had open heart surgery, and have not noticed a difference in the 7yrs I've been using kratom.

I am not saying kratom cannot cause high blood pressure, just that it usually seems not to. You will equally find studies saying that it lowers blood pressure. This study found that it only increased after hour 8, presumably when the kratom is about wearing off and you are beginning to go more into withdrawals. But that's just my guess.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4425236/

Thanks for the info. I've seen both claims. That link you provided might be the most trustworthy info I've seen on this though.

Yea I really like figure 5 and 6 on there. As a kratom user, the timeline makes a lot of sense to me and seems to coincide with the effects I get from kratom.

If anyone is unfamiliar with how to read those graphs, it is called a box plot.

One thing that I noticed in that publication is that they made tea. I'd be very curious to see if the results would be different with powder, extracts, etc.