Double M Herbals | Kratom Forum

Posted: **Mon Jan 24, 2022 1:46 am**

Hey guys,

How do you rotate your leaf?

i) Take 1 color from 1 vendor for the whole day (several servings)?

ii) Take different colors/strains for each burn through the day, but from the same vendor?

iii) Or do you Switch for every Single burn between vendor AND strain?

At the Moment I am going for a mix of method ii)+iii). For every burn (and to my regret i do have too many Single servings at the moment) I am using a different strain. Does not always have to be another vendor, but at least different strain. This is what I repeat every day.

I am asking because there are 2 Main opinions about rotation:
One says to always rotate and take a different strain so your body does not get used to a particular alkaloid profile, but on the other hand there are people saying that, especially when you get a New strain you sometimes need to get to know it first/better before you get the full spectrum out of it. So, you need to Stick with that particular strain for a while to let your body get 'used' to it (if that is the right word).

So, 2 totally different approaches. What is your opinion? Maybe Any hard facts for either the one or the other Method?

Please feel free to exchange the Word strain with Batch

Posted: **Mon Jan 24, 2022 5:54 am**

I rotate with different vendors for each burn. So inthe morning I burn a white from one vendor. In the afternoon I burn a green from another vendor. And in the evening or a couple hours before going to sleep, I burn an indoor dried red from another vendor. This keeps my burn from going dull from repeat use. The next day I can use the same vendors, but switch out the strains. However when I get some new leaf, I tend to burn the same leaf for a couple days or even a week to see what it has to offer at different times of the day. I need to learn some self control. But I like trying new leaf.

Posted: **Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:57 am**

I just use different strains, regardless of vendor. I also try not to take the same strain within a week. So say one day I take Philly K white Sumatra in the morning, TFH magic MD at noon, Denette yellow Malay in the evening and nodfather red nod 8 at night. The next day I may exclusively take different strains of Mitraman or two strains from STH then 2 strains from OKIE.
Sorry if this isn’t making sense, it’s almost 3 am and I am feeling super relaxed from OKIE Red MD. My favorite strain in the WORLD, tied with Lazy Sundae

Posted: **Mon Jan 24, 2022 10:58 am**

I try to take a different strain everyday, or switch between two different batches of kratom. I find this helps keep the effects good. I think trying different vendors, or adding them to my rotation helps me from getting stale vendor syndrome. I do sometimes mix different strains during the day but rarely. The best way I’ve found to keep getting the best effects is variety, and doing a short day, or two break sometimes.

Posted: **Mon Jan 24, 2022 10:34 pm**

Detuned wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 1:46 am iii) Or do you Switch for every Single burn between vendor AND strain?

I make a Red Bubble Tea blend of (2) strains which lasts 2 days... Switch it up every batch. So every 2 days, different Leaf.

Yeah, I'm still doing that. But!

. think about it. How much "difference" can there really be ?? With plain leaf powder. The BEST quality powder is "maybe" 2.0% Mitragynine. and GOOD kratom, the majority of batches... around 1.5% Mitra. Right? .. the weaker Bulk, Distro, stuff = being around 1.0% or less.

So, Per Gram, Best quality you're getting 20 mg. Which is... 5 mg more than Good quality. OK then. Assuming you avoid the cheap Bulk stuff. Does anyone really think they can tell, a REAL difference in effects @ 5 mg ?? X 4 grams, maybe = That's 20 mg Mitra... But could you identify ANY fake "strain" blindfolded?

Not to disappoint, or bring anyone Down To Earth here. Sorry. "Secret Shoppers" tried this... it's all, Folk Medicine or just more variation on Marketing Hype by vendors, to get people spending more Money, on basically the same product... We all know, the strains. We've seen the evidence, tested at Univ Florida research. NO difference between "strains". Alkaloid Profile ? hmm, what is that exactly.

What is your opinion? Maybe Any hard facts for either the one or the other Method?

Good topic. Thanks for starting it... Fact, "placebo" CAN be a strong factor, lol when evaluating teeny tiny differences between any Supplement. Hmm I'm feeling good, how good? And uh What did I have for breakfast... lol. Hey I'm rotating and doing it too... I filled up a complete Log Book, over a YEAR, with detail on every batch and strain. And now... in 2022 I'm trying to spend LESS time, being Anal about this stuff!

What does make a REAL difference. 1- Tolerance Management. 2- Mitragynine dosage!!

Those two things, are the "Next Level" for daily kratom consumers, no longer beginners, have self control, and want to enjoy a higher quality experience... skip the Tolerance discussion, here, but it's very important. Less Is More. Let's discuss dosage & How to raise and lower the Active Alkaloid. Good quality plain powder, let's say a 3 Gram serving, you're getting around 50 mg.

So getting a stronger burn, is NOT about "rotating" the same 3 grams of a different batch. You're still getting the same 50g Mitra!!

. To move beyond that, TWO things - 1 consume less raw Plant Material. Yep, that's right - Tea. Make filtered Tea w/ high alkaloids but does not have... sludge! Dirt. Bad stuff linked to negative effects. Theory ? Yes. But IME, In My Experience, adding Tea (alkaloids) to your regular 3 gram serving, does work.

OK - the #2. Anyone ready for a stronger burn, WITH control ? Spike your regular serving with a quality Extract. Yep! Simple as that.

. We're now starting to see, Lab Tested kratom extract products, available with exact milligram content, Per Serving: gram or ml for liquid tincture. AND, we're seeing those quality products, either in Isolate (Mitragynine Only!) or, Full Spectrum with all the trace alks. EXAMPLE: OPMS Black = (Mitragynine content 48%) – 180mg per bottle - Split 1 bottle into 5 servings. ADD to your regular plain leaf!!

Posted: **Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:14 pm**

My BEST experience was rotating one leaf, once per day, everyday, never using it more than one time per week

So using only one kratom "strain" (use whatever words you want) Monday, and only that strain, regardless of dose-let's say a Green Bali strain

Tuesday use another strain

Weds another

Etc...

That first strain from Monday, Green Bali, you wouldn't use again till the next Monday at the earliest

So obviously having 7+ more leafs/strains/batches/fucking whatever you want to call them since everyone here has different sayings (call them warm hugs if you want lol) if ideal, and having more than that is even better

The PROBLEM with having too many strains is that you start to use your favorite or mix them -- which is great -- but then you start to forget your own rotation rules

The plant starts to lose its footing and you're not feeling the warm, happy hugs you used to feel

The SOLUTION to this is clearly to buy my kratom which I have over 150+ strai... just kidding

Just stick to a schedule, follow it, repeat
(note: I have zero anything for sale, lol, joke)

Sparknote version:

+ Use only one strain per day

+ Use a different strain the next day

+ Have over 7+ strains so that you never use a strain more than once in 7 days

+ Having more strains is better

#1 Rule: Do what YOU want. That is WAY more important than anything anyone says here, including myself. Doing what YOU want and finding what works for YOU is most important. Read all of this and do it - read it all and ignore it - as long as you're doing what YOU want, you won't have any regrets and kratom will be fun.

I remember when I first tried it and didn't like it.

Then the second time

Then the 4th... it worked: "ok, yup, this is kratom, this is what it feels like and this is what I am going to do" I thought to myself

And I decided to follow what I saw worked for other people

And then picked what worked best for me

Afterall, we're all just sitting on our laptops/phones typing advice to others instead of writing our own routines/schedules/improving our own rotations
(the exception is if you have one that works, then share. sharing regurgitated mainstream-media advice or others advice repackaged in your own words is not helpful to anyone - not that anyone is doing that, but just as a forewarning, follow what you seem feels right in your gut and go from there

Talk soon
-Mike C

Posted: **Tue Jan 25, 2022 3:47 am**

BallzDeep9 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 10:34 pm
Detuned wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 1:46 am iii) Or do you Switch for every Single burn between vendor AND strain?
I make a Red Bubble Tea blend of (2) strains which lasts 2 days... Switch it up every batch. So every 2 days, different Leaf.

Yeah, I'm still doing that. But! . think about it. How much "difference" can there really be ?? With plain leaf powder. The BEST quality powder is "maybe" 2.0% Mitragynine. and GOOD kratom, the majority of batches... around 1.5% Mitra. Right? .. the weaker Bulk, Distro, stuff = being around 1.0% or less.

So, Per Gram, Best quality you're getting 20 mg. Which is... 5 mg more than Good quality. OK then. Assuming you avoid the cheap Bulk stuff. Does anyone really think they can tell, a REAL difference in effects @ 5 mg ?? X 4 grams, maybe = That's 20 mg Mitra... But could you identify ANY fake "strain" blindfolded?

Not to disappoint, or bring anyone Down To Earth here. Sorry. "Secret Shoppers" tried this... it's all, Folk Medicine or just more variation on Marketing Hype by vendors, to get people spending more Money, on basically the same product... We all know, the strains. We've seen the evidence, tested at Univ Florida research. NO difference between "strains". Alkaloid Profile ? hmm, what is that exactly.

What is your opinion? Maybe Any hard facts for either the one or the other Method?
Good topic. Thanks for starting it... Fact, "placebo" CAN be a strong factor, lol when evaluating teeny tiny differences between any Supplement. Hmm I'm feeling good, how good? And uh What did I have for breakfast... lol. Hey I'm rotating and doing it too... I filled up a complete Log Book, over a YEAR, with detail on every batch and strain. And now... in 2022 I'm trying to spend LESS time, being Anal about this stuff!

What does make a REAL difference. 1- Tolerance Management. 2- Mitragynine dosage!! Those two things, are the "Next Level" for daily kratom consumers, no longer beginners, have self control, and want to enjoy a higher quality experience... skip the Tolerance discussion, here, but it's very important. Less Is More. Let's discuss dosage & How to raise and lower the Active Alkaloid. Good quality plain powder, let's say a 3 Gram serving, you're getting around 50 mg.

So getting a stronger burn, is NOT about "rotating" the same 3 grams of a different batch. You're still getting the same 50g Mitra!! . To move beyond that, TWO things - 1 consume less raw Plant Material. Yep, that's right - Tea. Make filtered Tea w/ high alkaloids but does not have... sludge! Dirt. Bad stuff linked to negative effects. Theory ? Yes. But IME, In My Experience, adding Tea (alkaloids) to your regular 3 gram serving, does work.

OK - the #2. Anyone ready for a stronger burn, WITH control ? Spike your regular serving with a quality Extract. Yep! Simple as that. . We're now starting to see, Lab Tested kratom extract products, available with exact milligram content, Per Serving: gram or ml for liquid tincture. AND, we're seeing those quality products, either in Isolate (Mitragynine Only!) or, Full Spectrum with all the trace alks. EXAMPLE: OPMS Black = (Mitragynine content 48%) – 180mg per bottle - Split 1 bottle into 5 servings. ADD to your regular plain leaf!!

If all kratom is the same to you, why even bother with small batch, well reviewed kratom? May as well use golden monk as long as the mit count is high enough, right?

Posted: **Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:19 am**

BallzDeep9 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 10:34 pm
Detuned wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 1:46 am iii) Or do you Switch for every Single burn between vendor AND strain?
I make a Red Bubble Tea blend of (2) strains which lasts 2 days... Switch it up every batch. So every 2 days, different Leaf.

Yeah, I'm still doing that. But! . think about it. How much "difference" can there really be ?? With plain leaf powder. The BEST quality powder is "maybe" 2.0% Mitragynine. and GOOD kratom, the majority of batches... around 1.5% Mitra. Right? .. the weaker Bulk, Distro, stuff = being around 1.0% or less.

So, Per Gram, Best quality you're getting 20 mg. Which is... 5 mg more than Good quality. OK then. Assuming you avoid the cheap Bulk stuff. Does anyone really think they can tell, a REAL difference in effects @ 5 mg ?? X 4 grams, maybe = That's 20 mg Mitra... But could you identify ANY fake "strain" blindfolded?

Not to disappoint, or bring anyone Down To Earth here. Sorry. "Secret Shoppers" tried this... it's all, Folk Medicine or just more variation on Marketing Hype by vendors, to get people spending more Money, on basically the same product... We all know, the strains. We've seen the evidence, tested at Univ Florida research. NO difference between "strains". Alkaloid Profile ? hmm, what is that exactly.

What is your opinion? Maybe Any hard facts for either the one or the other Method?
Good topic. Thanks for starting it... Fact, "placebo" CAN be a strong factor, lol when evaluating teeny tiny differences between any Supplement. Hmm I'm feeling good, how good? And uh What did I have for breakfast... lol. Hey I'm rotating and doing it too... I filled up a complete Log Book, over a YEAR, with detail on every batch and strain. And now... in 2022 I'm trying to spend LESS time, being Anal about this stuff!

What does make a REAL difference. 1- Tolerance Management. 2- Mitragynine dosage!! Those two things, are the "Next Level" for daily kratom consumers, no longer beginners, have self control, and want to enjoy a higher quality experience... skip the Tolerance discussion, here, but it's very important. Less Is More. Let's discuss dosage & How to raise and lower the Active Alkaloid. Good quality plain powder, let's say a 3 Gram serving, you're getting around 50 mg.

So getting a stronger burn, is NOT about "rotating" the same 3 grams of a different batch. You're still getting the same 50g Mitra!! . To move beyond that, TWO things - 1 consume less raw Plant Material. Yep, that's right - Tea. Make filtered Tea w/ high alkaloids but does not have... sludge! Dirt. Bad stuff linked to negative effects. Theory ? Yes. But IME, In My Experience, adding Tea (alkaloids) to your regular 3 gram serving, does work.

OK - the #2. Anyone ready for a stronger burn, WITH control ? Spike your regular serving with a quality Extract. Yep! Simple as that. . We're now starting to see, Lab Tested kratom extract products, available with exact milligram content, Per Serving: gram or ml for liquid tincture. AND, we're seeing those quality products, either in Isolate (Mitragynine Only!) or, Full Spectrum with all the trace alks. EXAMPLE: OPMS Black = (Mitragynine content 48%) – 180mg per bottle - Split 1 bottle into 5 servings. ADD to your regular plain leaf!!

I agree with Nique^-- then why review "small batch vendors" and trash "large vendors"? If it's all the same and marketing hype

That means that all your reviewed vendors are also doing marketing hype?

I 100% believe and my personal experience is the opposite of yours, but I respect your insights

But positivity my man, postivity goes a long way

The same as negativity/trashing people does too whether trashing my posts like you have before or others

Share your experience, you're mad smart and have tons of knowledge probably more than anyone on this site

Just remember people are taking kratom to help with something - racing thoughts, pain, not sleeping, sex etc--

People here need more positivity in their life, not more getting shut down and negativity

Swallow your ego and re-read this and you might learn something -- the SAME way I swallowed MY EGO and I read YOUR review site -- and I LEARNED SOMETHING NEW! (serious) We can all learn from each other my man

Posted: **Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:03 pm**

NiqueKristan wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 3:47 am If all kratom is the same to you, why even bother with small batch, well reviewed kratom? May as well use golden monk as long as the mit count is high enough, right?

haha well #1 I never said that! what I'm saying is "within small batch" (higher quality) kratom, differences are... small.

. However comparing quality leaf, to Bulk Distro leaf, the stuff imported for $6 per Kg - difference is ? How much ?? Double. There's about double the amount of Mitra in quality kratom -VS- the cheap stuff.

That's definitely NOT "All the Same". And... what's kratom anyway ? Is the OPMS Gold Cap also... kratom ? Not kratom ? Hey I'm just pointing out, there are lots of products out there / And major divisions in the marketplace (Retail vs Online), (Bulk vs small batch)... And! IF that's not enough, kratom has changed, over the past 4+ years. There are MORE vendors, more products, and what's really exciting - Lab tested Extracts "refined" product, now sold at reasonable prices. If you look around!

To answer your question about Monk. I counted, 40 vendors who now Pay $ to AKA, to join their "Cartel", so-called GMP vendors, or KCPA vendors or whatever... the Retail guys. That's only around 20% of all vendors. By definition they are "Higher price, Lower quality" so... No I would not buy anything from Monk. Sure all vendors are In Business to make money but I like to think, and I know - Many small vendors do care for customer service. Not everyone is a scam profiteer, for the money. I don't support any AKA vendors, or buy Retail head-shop Leaf.

Sorry for getting Off Topic ? TL:DR - There IS a limit to how strong is natural, raw, powder. Rotating does not change that ? For me, I like to "switch up" by making Tea, and/or spiking my powder serving with Extract. Seems like kratom's effects can be made evan better by consuming Tea, or "Enhanced" powder. I also Rotate CBD, Kava, Phenibut, and others!

Just throwing out some ideas. Take or leave anything that helps... Or maybe I'm totally wacko, in that case please disregard!

Posted: **Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:27 pm**

HappyHugs wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:19 am I agree with Nique^-- then why review "small batch vendors" and trash "large vendors"? If it's all the same and marketing hype -- That means that all your reviewed vendors are also doing marketing hype? I 100% believe and my personal experience is the opposite of yours, but I respect your insight

I am writing here to contribute my thoughts same as you or others - I hope someone finds some interest in my ramblings - I have a writing style, we all do, I type pretty fast so (I hope) it comes out like conversation but, often, I do eat my words or phrase things better. Thank you for reading my stuff and commenting.

IMO as Kratom has grown and boomed over past 4 years, "Large and Small" have really separated due to logistical factors. The 2019 Shipping fiasco which led to Sea containers and 40 TON loads, at the same time, USA profiteers (including a few scammers!) Did beat-down Prices to the Indonesians, for these Bulk, Distro, loads and --> Indo has responded by dumping loads of plant material that's not Kratom. Which, is not a big deal for Drug Labs making extract, they will extract the Mitragynine even at 1.0% or less.

Here I go, getting Off Topic again lol, but - It does Reply to your concern and IMO, we've seen a division in this business... yeah, they all Hype to some extent but, this Forum gets dominated by a small group who actively use MM to advertise. I'll get back On Topic - by suggesting, again, there's more Bang for your Buck switching up "methods" and "combos" and enhancements - Not by rotating basically the same good powder, since we know "strains" don't exist... Thanks again!

Posted: **Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:49 pm**

Detuned wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 1:46 am Hey guys,

How do you rotate your leaf?

i) Take 1 color from 1 vendor for the whole day (several servings)?

ii) Take different colors/strains for each burn through the day, but from the same vendor?

iii) Or do you Switch for every Single burn between vendor AND strain?

I usually do ii) or iii). I pre-make oblates 2.3g - 2.5g and take a mix of different strains and vendors. I have found with my current tolerance the first morning serving is not enough to test a strain so if I want to know about a particular one I'd have to stick with it at least 2-3 servings but my tendency is to mix it all up. Today I started with 2 servings of D615 green remote jungle, then later had 1 TFH top shelf green, then last one around 4pm was Beleafer yellow malay. The last serving ended up being too much too soon so haven't had more yet and usually don't after 6pm and I already dozed off a little listening to an interview. So mainly it's a mix of strains and vendors but some days or weeks I decide to stick with one vendor for 3-4 days, alternating strains only which I think is really the only way to discover the uniqueness and appreciate the quality of that vendor's batches.

Posted: **Wed Jan 26, 2022 3:24 pm**

I think rotation is highly overrated, a bag of good kratom doesn't last long around me ;p

Posted: **Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:58 am**

All the above. I try to use what is going on for me mood and energy wise alongside the time of day and what I am going to be doing to determine what feels right and always change up something each time.

Posted: **Wed Feb 02, 2022 11:29 am**

I've found that alternating my morning whites has worked well. Probably just placebo but it does me no harm and I like trying new things. Just depends on what I feel like trying in the morning. On my days off I'll generally use a red batch that is more relaxing then my whites and (sometimes) greens for work days.

Posted: **Wed Feb 02, 2022 12:22 pm**

I switch up vendors and strains throughout the day. Fast in morning and noon, then slower at night. I write on the package what it did for me during the burn.
One question, i see a lot of people taking 2-2.5g per dose.....im at 6g 4-5x's a day. Ive been here for about 2years now. Is there anyone else who uses 6g per dose? Obviously I do what works for me but maybe I need to cut my dose down. Just curious would be glad to hear others experience. Take care and have a great day!!

Posted: **Wed Feb 02, 2022 12:38 pm**

I am not great at structured use sometimes. Lately I have been trying to rotate vendors between doses. However more often then not I feel like I am pretty random. Morning is whatever green I pull out with a pinch of red. Evening is about the same but with a bit more red in the mix. I would like to be able to structure it a bit more but doesn't seem like something I have been able to stick to yet really.

Posted: **Wed Feb 02, 2022 2:39 pm**

Roofdog wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 12:22 pm I switch up vendors and strains throughout the day. Fast in morning and noon, then slower at night. I write on the package what it did for me during the burn.
One question, i see a lot of people taking 2-2.5g per dose.....im at 6g 4-5x's a day. Ive been here for about 2years now. Is there anyone else who uses 6g per dose? Obviously I do what works for me but maybe I need to cut my dose down. Just curious would be glad to hear others experience. Take care and have a great day!!

My doses are between 3-7g. First one in the morning is 7g. Through the day doses are between 3-4g and in the evening between 5,5-7g again

Posted: **Wed Feb 02, 2022 2:59 pm**

Detuned wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 2:39 pm
Roofdog wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 12:22 pm I switch up vendors and strains throughout the day. Fast in morning and noon, then slower at night. I write on the package what it did for me during the burn.
One question, i see a lot of people taking 2-2.5g per dose.....im at 6g 4-5x's a day. Ive been here for about 2years now. Is there anyone else who uses 6g per dose? Obviously I do what works for me but maybe I need to cut my dose down. Just curious would be glad to hear others experience. Take care and have a great day!!
My doses are between 3-7g. First one in the morning is 7g. Through the day doses are between 3-4g and in the evening between 5,5-7g again

Appreciate the feed back. I will try dropping down a bit in the afternoon and see how that goes. Thanks!!

Double M Herbals | Kratom Forum

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