Double M Herbals | Kratom Forum

I don't like having to take large amounts of powder and prefer to use whatever the most potent product is, and during my searches I have come across this https://wgbotanicals.com/product/new-kr ... ab-reviews which has 7-hydroxy content that is insanely higher than anything else I've seen and which is far more potent than mitragynine. Anyone know of anything stronger? I imagine it'd be perfect for buying in bulk to add to whatever strain you want, better than buying expensive tincture bottles or whatever else overpriced products they make. I wonder how it compares to the strongest "50x" enhanced/extract powders or 45%. Apparently these https://wgbotanicals.com/product/opms-b ... ab-reviews have "<2.5%" but they're individual capsules, much more expensive than buying powder.

If moneys not a problem make tea. The concept is you can put a 100g dose in a teabag and steep in 1 inch of water and have 100g in a shot, no leaf. If time is a problem, pre make them. Put a whole kilo in a “tea bag” and steep it then divide the water and keep 10, 100g tea shots in the fridge, no powder at all

Totomman wrote: ↑Mon Jun 06, 2022 7:02 am If moneys not a problem make tea. The concept is you can put a 100g dose in a teabag and steep in 1 inch of water and have 100g in a shot, no leaf. If time is a problem, pre make them. Put a whole kilo in a “tea bag” and steep it then divide the water and keep 10, 100g tea shots in the fridge, no powder at all

how efficient is that though? can 1 inch of water really absorb 100g of plant matter?

No, that can't happen. Even using 100% ethanol about the most material you can absorb in 300ml of water is around 80 grams (and that's pushing it). Now - saying "an inch of water" is completely and scientifically absurd. That's not a measurement - an inch of water in a 30x15 foot pool could be gallons. An inch in a beaker could be less than 30ml. But if we are talking about making tea in a pot at home, I would say it's about two or three ounces and the best you can do with water is perhaps 25 grams (and THAT is overly optimistic).

Also - with ethanol you have to "steep" it for six weeks. Even heated water for a few minutes won't absorb all that much. The studies about this sort of thing indicate that the best you can do is get around 30% of the alkaloids out of Kratom with water (you can get 3x+ with this using ethanol). You *can* increase your draw by using some acidity - this can add up to 17% (but you are still only getting half).

So under the MOST optimistic conditions you can get the equivalent of around 12 grams of powder in that aforementioned "ounce". Not really all that powerful.

RemyVonLion wrote: ↑Mon Jun 06, 2022 1:49 am I don't like having to take large amounts of powder and prefer to use whatever the most potent product is, and during my searches I have come across this https://wgbotanicals.com .... Anyone know of anything stronger ?

Welcome to MM!! The real Answer to your Question is - The Extract product with a recent, dated, 3rd Party, Lab Test from a known, Legit chemistry Laboratory... showing both Mitragynine % and also 7-hydroxymitragynine %. In other words... PROOF.

The typical vendor website with NO labs, selling "50X" type products, Lots of Hype and Zero Proof - screw 'em. Does Not Count... same with "Fake Labs", no Date on Labs, Names removed from Labs ? etc, you have to assume it's bullshit - that's just the USA kratom business !!

ALL that being said, Wonderland Gardens DOES have some nice products . and "some" Legit PROOF for a few of their Extracts... Wonderland IS, one of the Best Extract vendors now, in 2022 - I've tried several and they carry a BIG selection. I just wish they had better Labs ? Posted on website ? THANKS for the Tip - this 38% MIT looks really good!

BallzDeep9 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 1:01 am

RemyVonLion wrote: ↑Mon Jun 06, 2022 1:49 am I don't like having to take large amounts of powder and prefer to use whatever the most potent product is, and during my searches I have come across this https://wgbotanicals.com .... Anyone know of anything stronger ?

Welcome to MM!! The real Answer to your Question is - The Extract product with a recent, dated, 3rd Party, Lab Test from a known, Legit chemistry Laboratory... showing both Mitragynine % and also 7-hydroxymitragynine %. In other words... PROOF.

The typical vendor website with NO labs, selling "50X" type products, Lots of Hype and Zero Proof - screw 'em. Does Not Count... same with "Fake Labs", no Date on Labs, Names removed from Labs ? etc, you have to assume it's bullshit - that's just the USA kratom business !!

ALL that being said, Wonderland Gardens DOES have some nice products . and "some" Legit PROOF for a few of their Extracts... Wonderland IS, one of the Best Extract vendors now, in 2022 - I've tried several and they carry a BIG selection. I just wish they had better Labs ? Posted on website ? THANKS for the Tip - this 38% MIT looks really good!

Yeah true kratom is part of the wild west grey market so regulations are wonky. They have a picture of the "labs" but it's a super tiny ass pic that you can't read anything of, which I agree is somewhat suspicious. I'm still gonna order 3 grams and see what it's like. Shit sounds like heroin the way they describe it saying you need a scale to measure it since a recommended dose is 0.1g and they don't recommend going over 0.2g, so it should be pretty clear if I'm getting scammed or not lol.

There's a post in a FB scam group I'm in (50/50) about the owner of Wonderland having a record for trafficking heroin and warning others they're dangerous with a photo of an arrest record

Lokey wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 11:59 am There's a post in a FB scam group I'm in (50/50) about the owner of Wonderland having a record for trafficking heroin and warning others they're dangerous with a photo of an arrest record

damn, well that seems to end up being the case for at least 90% of these online vendors sooner or later, maybe they did some shady stuff on the side, maybe they're just accusations, maybe they really are cutting their shit or just straight up not sending anything, who knows. I was ordering rcs from this popular site with a good rep(Proximo), then he suddenly changes to a new site(GCC) with pretty much identical layout and branding, but now a lot more selective scamming, just so a few people will still give him credibility and my god it works, I see people on reddit saying that people are just impatient and/or "need to give him a break" on posts wondering where their package is, like wtf hell no am I giving him a break, I proved that he sent me the wrong order and he didn't give a shit about it. The products he did send me were pure ethanol too. Anyway, if the potency of this powder is anywhere near what they claim, it should be obvious, so I shall be the guinea pig. I looked up reviews of the website and they seem to check out.

RemyVonLion wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 12:51 pm

Lokey wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 11:59 am There's a post in a FB scam group I'm in (50/50) about the owner of Wonderland having a record for trafficking heroin and warning others they're dangerous with a photo of an arrest record

damn, well that seems to end up being the case for at least 90% of these online vendors sooner or later, maybe they did some shady stuff on the side, maybe they're just accusations, maybe they really are cutting their shit or just straight up not sending anything, who knows. I was ordering RC's from this popular site with a good rep (Proximo), then he suddenly changes to a new site (GCC) with pretty much identical layout and branding, but now a lot more selective scamming ...

We're definitely in a grey market area w/ Online vendors & who sell both Plain Leaf and Extract - the Legal picture is a long story but many Leaf vendors won't touch Extract so choices are very limited. But there are a few, Legit sellers. Herbal RVA was a long time, well known, "Leaf Only" vendor & then a year ago decided to carry extract, due to popular demand lol... He is a Member here on Double MM. Obviously deals with a Wholesale Distributor for these Extract Caps, but he paid to get them tested a year ago. So HERE is an example, one Legit vendor offering a quality Extract at reasonable price... he used ARL (Analytical Resource Labs) for Lab Test, click on small image below Caps photo. These are 51% Mitragynine . so just HALF a cap works for me! Consume WITH 1 gram of plain Leaf. Link -- https://herbal-rva.com/product/extract-capsule/

Wonderland stocks SO many different Extract's, sold at LOW prices - that it seems obvious he's NOT re-selling "professional grade" from a Wholesaler ? . He's got some junior Chemist who is cranking these out in a basement somewhere... Just my impression ? I have tried several. I would suggest, avoid the Black color extract, which made me feel weirdly bombed out, a sluggish headache feeling next day... Like there's impurities in there... Again the best way to market these, is PROOF of a Lab Test - The BIG well established vendors who even deal in Extracts, (Viable or ANA!) you have more confidence in the Quality - These guys can't even update the website ? Click "Kratom" on their Main Menu & you get: "Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor"... and they haven't cleaned that up in OVER a year ? Strictly Amateur!!

Ballz can you tell me why the RVA extract caps are green on one end only and how do you half one of them? Dump it out and mix it all together and then half it I guess?

Lokey wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 11:59 am There's a post in a FB scam group I'm in (50/50) about the owner of Wonderland having a record for trafficking heroin and warning others they're dangerous with a photo of an arrest record

That's not necessarily conclusive tho; a lot of Kratom users are ex addicts that have used kratom to get off heroin.

Lokey wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 7:10 pm Ballz can you tell me why the RVA extract caps are green on one end only and how do you half one of them?

Any gel caps can be opened & you just pour out about half & then put cap back together again pretty simple... I know nothing about his photos

BallzDeep9 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 8:53 pm

Lokey wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 7:10 pm Ballz can you tell me why the RVA extract caps are green on one end only and how do you half one of them?

Any gel caps can be opened & you just pour out about half & then put cap back together again pretty simple... I know nothing about his photos

Oh well his photos are green on one end only and so are the 3 caps I received so I think it should be redistributed somehow, unless it's just the capsule that's colored green on one end.

Lokey wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 10:14 pm

BallzDeep9 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 8:53 pm

Lokey wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 7:10 pm Ballz can you tell me why the RVA extract caps are green on one end only and how do you half one of them?

Any gel caps can be opened & you just pour out about half & then put cap back together again pretty simple... I know nothing about his photos

Oh well his photos are green on one end only and so are the 3 caps I received so I think it should be redistributed somehow, unless it's just the capsule that's colored green on one end.

yeah the color of the cap means nothing, all of the powder inside is the same. just pour half of it out, or if you have a mg scale you can weigh it more accurately.

I'll check, never saw a cap like that, thought it was the powder inside. Thanks.
Edit its the powder, green on one end only so I had to dump it and blend it all together 1st

BallzDeep9 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 1:01 am

RemyVonLion wrote: ↑Mon Jun 06, 2022 1:49 am ?

ALL that being said, Wonderland Gardens DOES have some nice products . and "some" Legit PROOF for a few of their Extracts... Wonderland IS, one of the Best Extract vendors now, in 2022 - I've tried several and they carry a BIG selection. I just wish they had better Labs ? Posted on website ? THANKS for the Tip - this 38% MIT looks really good!

Please excuse me for “butting in” but I just ordered some of the Wonderland Gardens extract stuff because BallzDeep9 recommended it. I will post a review as soon as it is delivered and I try it.

HoagsObject

(Hoags Object is an unlikely looking double ring galaxy which the Hubble telescope took a pretty cool picture of)

The opms gold caps are the strongest extract I've tried but they are expensive. I take two and feel great.

HoagsObject wrote: ↑Wed Jun 08, 2022 3:45 pm Please excuse me for “butting in” but I just ordered some of the Wonderland Gardens extract stuff because BallzDeep9 recommended it. I will post a review as soon as it is delivered and I try it.

Please! Butt in, HoagsObject. . I'd just clarify that I don't recommend any product - Just a general observation they have 1- Big selection, and 2- Low prices. So my "Vendor Review" is, ordering was easy, I tried several Wonderland extracts and, they're OK - A good value when compared to other extracts out there. I did not like the Black color as much. IIRC they have "some" Labs posted... that does seem sketchy... Most likely these are home-made, kitchen table type, products which (I'm not going into a long discussion of extracts.) - which are NOT sold by most online vendors. Wonderland HAS a website, and Facebook group, so anyone buying, any questions, should go to Facebook.

Thanks! We look forward to your Review!

Lokey wrote: ↑Wed Jun 08, 2022 10:43 am I'll check, never saw a cap like that, thought it was the powder inside. Thanks.
Edit its the powder, green on one end only so I had to dump it and blend it all together 1st

I haven't seen the rva caps, are they different from regular capsules? I just assumed it was the same as every other capsule- even if the cap is two different colors, it's one container, and the powder isn't divided into two sections. the capsule's color has nothing to do with its contents. so if the rva extract caps are different and have two different compartments, I've also never seen a cap like that.

add to descartes wrote: ↑Thu Jun 09, 2022 8:14 am

Lokey wrote: ↑Wed Jun 08, 2022 10:43 am I'll check, never saw a cap like that, thought it was the powder inside. Thanks.
Edit its the powder, green on one end only so I had to dump it and blend it all together 1st

I haven't seen the rva caps, are they different from regular capsules? I just assumed it was the same as every other capsule- even if the cap is two different colors, it's one container, and the powder isn't divided into two sections. the capsule's color has nothing to do with its contents. so if the rva extract caps are different and have two different compartments, I've also never seen a cap like that.

The capsule is 100% all clear, the powder inside is green on one end only, about 1/4, and the rest is a whitish beige color.

that's strange. they must fill it like that.

HoagsObject wrote: ↑Wed Jun 08, 2022 3:45 pm

BallzDeep9 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 1:01 am

RemyVonLion wrote: ↑Mon Jun 06, 2022 1:49 am ?

ALL that being said, Wonderland Gardens DOES have some nice products . and "some" Legit PROOF for a few of their Extracts... Wonderland IS, one of the Best Extract vendors now, in 2022 - I've tried several and they carry a BIG selection. I just wish they had better Labs ? Posted on website ? THANKS for the Tip - this 38% MIT looks really good!

Please excuse me for “butting in” but I just ordered some of the Wonderland Gardens extract stuff because BallzDeep9 recommended it. I will post a review as soon as it is delivered and I try it.

HoagsObject

(Hoags Object is an unlikely looking double ring galaxy which the Hubble telescope took a pretty cool picture of)

I just tried Wonderland extract. I just tried 38% and 44% extract. Holy smoke this stuff is potent. I gave my sweet little wife some and she won’t shut up. Just kidding. Anyhow I can give Wonderland Gardens extract a recommendation.

HoagsObject wrote: ↑Sat Jun 11, 2022 3:59 pm I just tried Wonderland Extract. I just tried 38% and 44% extract. Holy smoke this stuff is potent....

Yeah. Last night, had their 44% Extract... the one advertised as "STRONG" on their website. I carefully weighed 0.2 mg, using a Milligram Scale - so 2 tenths of 1 gram.

Here's the Math. A 40% Extract has, 400 mg Mitragynine - so my 0.2 would have 80 mg. Follow me ? OK then, Plain Leaf kratom powder has about 15 mg per Gram. Some a little more, some a little less, you can use 15 mg for "Good Quality" kratom - my regular 2 gram serving would be 30 mg Mit. What I did last night, was take 1 gram kratom, PLUS the Extract: so (15 + 80) my dose was 95 mg... Over 3 Times my usual 2 gram kratom serving.

Divide the 95 mg by 15 = Equal to over 6 Grams of plain powder kratom. Well, that's a lot for me. I ate dinner after that... and got very tired and sleepy after meal. Went to bed early, and slept 10 HOURS. I was sleeping so hard I had this long weird dream... I don't know, this Extract feels like there's something else in there ? I've done whopper servings before...

But, the Price Is Right. I'm ordering some of the NEW 38% gold orange color stuff. ALL their extracts, around $6 bucks, to $8 per Gram. . (Compare that to Carolina, a rip-off vendor who sells 50X crap products, GOOD extracts over $50 per Gram.).. I'm also going to TRY some O.P.M.S. Black, which Wonderland sells for $15 - cheaper than anywhere else.

Such an interesting conversation. I've never really dabbled in extracts ever even though I've been kratom involved for many many years. This has me thinking that I should grab some of this cheap stuff and take it with some of my ">average" kratom...give it a boost.

I've had WG regular kratom before based on a recommendation, seemed like all flair and no punch. Definitely wouldn't be buying their standard leaf again anytime soon. But these extracts.. and prices...thing they ate drawing me back in.

How do you think this product compares to Caleb's extract or magnum opus? I'm probably going to order some, I just wonder as Caleb's is super bomb imo, but like 35$ per gram. Which is a lot, but I could spread it out for a bunch of doses along with plain leaf to get great effects. Interested in her opinion on this ballz!

If I am following Mr. B's math (and I may not be, as I just woke up - 6am or so here) my typical dose of around 6 grams would need at least .2 of a gram of any of those extracts to be as powerful. Given that such a dose of even the most premium stuff I can find works out to only around 55 cents versus the extract price of (the cheapest) $1.50 means I'm paying three times as much for the privilege of having to VERY carefully measure out something I can far more easily measure. So - I don't get it.

Plus - you are talking some powder along with it? Seems to me a lot of trouble for very little payoff unless you're saying that increasing your dose of your regular leaf doesn't work in the same way (and I would question why it wouldn't - I have a red I took at 4 grams that kept working for over eight hours and sounds VERY similar to what you experienced).

My curiosity makes me want to try some of these extracts but, like Alice, just saying curious and curiouser only leads to trouble (we know what it did to the cat).

Datkratboi wrote: ↑Sun Jun 12, 2022 1:46 am How do you think this product compares to Caleb's extract or magnum opus? I'm probably going to order some, I just wonder as Caleb's is super bomb imo, but like 35$ per gram.

You must be a Reddit veteran, Datkratboi - Caleb's Concentrates was, Legit for sure - But until recently he hadn't updated his website in OVER a Year ? (Signs of SVS = Stale Vendor Syndrome!), he had a Welcome message with a date over 1 Year ago, and also, announcements about his Family, Vacation, babies, etc. PLUS - ALL products "Out of Stock" like forever ... Gives a poor impression ??

Sure enough I look right now... Out Of Stock. . For his most popular 2 products the Pure Alks, and the Co2 Supercritical extract (A very interesting product!) - Caleb's ALWAYS out of stock... He's BEEN out of stock for 2+ Years now... something gone wrong with this vendor.... SAME with Magnum Opus, aka MO Botanicals, aka MOBO. Didn't the one partner die, or something ? - OOPS - I WROTE THAT BEFORE CHECKING - YES. He's dead. Sorry. https://www.mokratom.com/product/10-uemd/

Moral Of The Story - These Vendors COME and GO - in this business... We must always be alert! for signs of SVS - and MOVE to another vendor!! But Online Extract sellers, in a whole different category - There's very FEW of them, compared to the 300+ guys who wanna bee a vendor because they imported 1 Load of Leaf from some dude in Ponti - No. Extract shops are different.

Wonderland Gardens, HAS been in business for... 2+ years now ?? Time flies, I remember them popping up on Facebook. OK so, they are now "well established" . and, seems to me they're working with a Chemist there, who cranks out a nice variety of Extract batches. Great! As we've discussed... Price is Right - But - The #1 Extract vendor is still = ANA. All Natural Artisan, offers an amazing variety of gourmet Leaf, Enhanced blends, Tinctures and pure alkaloid powders... BOTH of these vendors, have put the old Caleb's and MoBo, "out to pasture" lol. There's just NO need to pay $35 a Gram anymore... Going Price now is $5 to 8 bucks a gram, Top quality. ANA and WG are leading the field.

Strongest one will be the time you took it last and space in between. Most likely when you sleep all night and first thing take it in the morning. Any favorite you got, there is no true strong batch, you will hunt for it until your wallet becomes empty. Might as well have your next thoughts lined up for whats in the street next thing to get high with? Or give kratom a break and enjoy.

Badgame85 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 11, 2022 9:38 pm Such an interesting conversation. I've never really dabbled in extracts ever even though I've been kratom involved for many many years. This has me thinking that I should grab some of this cheap stuff and take it with some of my ">average" kratom...give it a boost.

I've had WG regular kratom before based on a recommendation, seemed like all flair and no punch. Definitely wouldn't be buying their standard leaf again anytime soon. But these extracts.. and prices...thing they ate drawing me back in.

Wish I read this at 3am last night as I was contemplating what to get my 1st order. They have a great sample deal for new customers plus a sale on 4 way split of 500g and I got both as I'm always trying to get free shipping and they have $88 minimum. I hate the cost of shipping. So I ended up with a lot of plain leaf. I don't dabble in extracts but a sample is included. Some others were loving the plain powder on Reddit but maybe they added extract to it. I also got green kava and honey stix. Concerned about the kava now cuz I take xanax at night.

Thank god someone mentioned Ana they are number one literally been trying to tell people it’s simple extracts are almost always a rip off. There’s literally one choice so not hard to choose. When I first joined I tried so many extract vendors except Caleb’s because like ballz said they are all out of stock. I’ve discussed this with many members, and even have a grading system for if a extract is worth it. Unfortunately like I said most are trash. You need accurate labs, and a fair price otherwise why bother? You need the mit content which if they can’t tell you don’t buy it. I mean I’m pretty sure half of all my post is haikus, and the other is talking about extracts. In this case buy the diamond extract from AnA it’s over 50% mit, and wonderfull. Trust me I’ve tried it you won’t be disappointed.

There is no true strong batch, you will hunt for it until your wallet becomes empty

- CONFUCIUS maybe?

True though 100%

Lokey wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 10:55 am

Badgame85 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 11, 2022 9:38 pm Such an interesting conversation. I've never really dabbled in extracts ever even though I've been kratom involved for many many years. This has me thinking that I should grab some of this cheap stuff and take it with some of my ">average" kratom...give it a boost.

I've had WG regular kratom before based on a recommendation, seemed like all flair and no punch. Definitely wouldn't be buying their standard leaf again anytime soon. But these extracts.. and prices...thing they ate drawing me back in.

Wish I read this at 3am last night as I was contemplating what to get my 1st order. They have a great sample deal for new customers plus a sale on 4 way split of 500g and I got both as I'm always trying to get free shipping and they have $88 minimum. I hate the cost of shipping. So I ended up with a lot of plain leaf. I don't dabble in extracts but a sample is included. Some others were loving the plain powder on Reddit but maybe they added extract to it. I also got green kava and honey stix. Concerned about the kava now cuz I take xanax at night.

Oh no fear brother, you know how this system works. What works for some, doesn't for others right? Plus they have a pretty popular business so there must be a lot of satisfied customers. If Ballz even knows of them then their already beating out hundreds of other domestic vendors right?
I just got recommended some of their gimmicky blends like there "Black MD" and their "Friday the 13th blend" both of which had cool packaging yet did nothing for me. I did have an "enhanced" plain leaf option that worked fairly well. Just overall was more disappointment that happiness on the options I chose. I wish you a different outcome!

mivanqua wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:49 pm There is no true strong batch, you will hunt for it until your wallet becomes empty ... CONFUCIUS maybe ??

Truer Words never spoken my friend !! Yes. ANY "Batch" of ... Plain Leaf powder has.... LIMITS

Truth!! EVEN the "Best Batch" is only... around what. 2.0 % Mitragynine. Which = 20 mg per Gram. A "Good Average" Batch = 15 mg.

NOW! Follow The Math here... Let's say your Big whopping 4 Grams Serving = 60 mg. Right? And that's "Average Leaf". The BEST = 80 mg.

So everyone is scrambling around, fucking around, for a stinkin' 20 mg per Serving Difference ?? . That's the Big Difference around 20 mg. ALL this FOMO and All this running around after Reds and Greens, and which Vendor has a tiny 20 mg difference per Serving. OK ... Follow THIS - Now I buy one tiny Gram of Wonderland's 38% Extract.

ONE gram. Cost is 8 dollars. 38% = 380 mg Mitragynine per Gram !! . I take just One Tenth, of that 1 Gram, = 38 mg Mitra, like 1 tiny fingernail of Extract, and ADD that to my 4 Gram Serving of "Average Leaf"... Do the Math. My 60 mg Serving is NOW = 98 mg spiked... That makes, my "Average" Leaf, almost 25% STRONGER, than even the "Best Batch" ya'll are running around chasing & trading & FOMO about... 1 tiny DAB of this Exract, has made my Average Kratom = MUCH stronger!!

And! I didn't need to consume ANY more DIRT !! - My Serving = 98 mg Mitragynine, 4 grams Dirt. Your serving only 80 mg "Plain Leaf" same... 4 grams DIRT.