New Study by the NIDA

[Kelleytoons]

I know people here keep saying "relax, no way the government is going to stop our Kratom use" but I will tell you - those people are just naïve and the only thing I think of when I read what they write is "they are SO young".

As someone who lived through the 60's I know that Big Government (and Big Pharma) is to be feared and older, wiser heads will agree. In any case, I was recently contacted by someone from the University of Florida whom, up until now, I respected, who solicited me to participate in a new study done by the National Institute of Drug Abuse on Kratom.

The mere name of this organization should reveal their agenda - this ain't the FDA, or even, say, a study done by an independent source like a university. This is a study done by the folks who ban substances - they are NOT looking at finding out that Kratom is harmless (if they even thought that for a minute they wouldn't waste their time on this study). Just a quick glance at the other substances they have studied, like opioids and Fentanyl should give you a clue in case you didn't get it by now.

Some of you may get the notice as well but I'm not going to link to it here - oh, and they are also paying "volunteers" - up to $179. Yep, that sounds to me like a totally innocent study. They are out to make a case and none of us should give them any ammunition.

[Lokey]

Oh no! What did you tell him?

[mivanqua]

Wonder what would happen if you take the money and then spend it on kratom and change your number? Or dont. Hahaha! I78 bucks! NIDA? Who IS THIS??

OR :
How do you feel?
A little sick, that was three tablespoons of kratom
Potential ER visit, CHECK!

That's the game they are playing.

Never find shit so always doing some new Kratom Danger Study. Its outrageousness is almost comical. Almost. Kratom must be some super duper stuff in a way we don't know about. Lots of the alkaloids in the "use" column, it says "unknown," but that could just mean to YOU.
I think this means "pay your bribe" That's what it's all about anyway. Literally ALL OF IT. Hahaha!

Or every single person in these studies comes out of it healthier and probably not drinking anymore. Yuk! My stomach turned just thinking about that.

[Transformato]

I know people here keep saying "relax, no way the government is going to stop our Kratom use" but I will tell you - those people are just naïve and the only thing I think of when I read what they write is "they are SO young".

As someone who lived through the 60's I know that Big Government (and Big Pharma) is to be feared and older, wiser heads will agree. In any case, I was recently contacted by someone from the University of Florida whom, up until now, I respected, who solicited me to participate in a new study done by the National Institute of Drug Abuse on Kratom.

The mere name of this organization should reveal their agenda - this ain't the FDA, or even, say, a study done by an independent source like a university. This is a study done by the folks who ban substances - they are NOT looking at finding out that Kratom is harmless (if they even thought that for a minute they wouldn't waste their time on this study). Just a quick glance at the other substances they have studied, like opioids and Fentanyl should give you a clue in case you didn't get it by now.

Some of you may get the notice as well but I'm not going to link to it here - oh, and they are also paying "volunteers" - up to $179. Yep, that sounds to me like a totally innocent study. They are out to make a case and none of us should give them any ammunition.

I agree about the 3rd & 7th head of the Beast should not be taken for granted. I was a blissful toddler mid 1960's

My observation suggest that there do exist parts of larger entities and entities within entities and other seperate entities - for which some degree of balance is maintained. That's to say really big things are seldom of all one quality, intention or mission.

I'm not investing enough time here for strict fact checking re details but this is close if not completely true... you're welcome to correct details
As I recall, it was NIDA (or was it NIH for which NIDA is a part of) that defied the FDA (when nobody else was doing it) by not recommending- which is declining to chime in,.. declining to recommend that kratom be banned as doing so would put millions of Americans at risk. That consumer advocacy org discovered that a year later but it's supposed to be accessible to the public. Rather, it was hidden under somebody's fat ss the entire time lest it ripple one of FDA's facades.
Ok,.. Im not making any claims of what any entity intends to do, what they'll allow others to do, what they'll yield to, what we'll still be legally doing with the natural resource.

Beyond emotive reaction- This isn't about banning anything directly but with new drug in hand, unlike those that were entangled with patent problems in the past (a vision that to Very Many looks like a great idea- which is a problem) , there may be few arguments that office holding mutant / consumers will hear in support of letting people continue to apply innate resourcefulness and access material they can safely and legally work with for whatever purpose they see fit. Pharma is sure to guide with their reasons.

Nope, I don't think anyone should or shouldn't participate. I seem to cope better when I don't have to know everything. I think it's better to sit back and watch, study, move one piece on the board at a time. And examine what stimulates their choices- here, money is an incentive, not a reason. I think people should think carefully and be willing to suspend judgement sometimes because it gets easier to do with practice and you'll likely make fewer mistakes when not bolted down to one extreme or the other.

Everyone loves conclusions bc it's more comfortable than being in suspension but it's less empowering.

What they do with data - If I had to guess it would be both beneficial an destructive. Just as the world turns. Trees reach for the sun until consumer demand sends an enterprising poach to sever the vine before shipping the remains to a port city near you.

[Kelleytoons]

Oh no! What did you tell him?

I essentially said that I, as a scientist with a degree, was appalled that he would even cooperate with these folks (the U of Florida is doing a ton of very good research on Kratom, including growing it in the U.S. as a cash crop but also studying IMPARTIALLY the effects on people - that was why I contacted him in the first place and helped with HIS study). I also said there was no way I was going to pass to my friends how to participate (obviously if you folks really want to you can look it up yourself).

Look - I worked for the government for many decades. Not ALL government is bad, and not all studies various branches do are evil. But this branch definitely has an agenda and it ain't good for us. Plus - there is something a little creepy about the government even knowing your Kratom consumption. What if, at some point in the future, it DOES become illegal? Would YOU be comfortable having your name on a list of past users? (And, if so, please don't say so here, as I will lose all respect I have for you).

There are SO many things wrong about this I was literally shocked but at the very least he didn't give my name directly to them (so for that I am thankful - his study was VERY careful to protect information from those who participated).

[Lokey]

Wow, do you think if it became illegal and they had names they'd do search and seizure? Here's some positive news:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Vendorsofkrato ... urce=share

[mivanqua]

Wow, do you think if it became illegal and they had names they'd do search and seizure? Here's some positive news:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Vendorsofkrato ... urce=share

They'd plant it on you if you didn't have any. Don't have any illusions to the contrary. I could tell you real life stories about cops stealing drugs from people I KNOW, again, IRL, and this was nearly twenty years ago. I'm sure it's only MORE shitty now.

As far as being on lists, very likely on many lists, I'm pretty far from a "quiet" internet presence and I've doxxed myself multiple.times here in the public forum even because I really don't care. I am happy I know you guys and if you know more about me than you "should" oh well. This community has gained my trust and even my love in some cases. No! Not like that! Some people here are very dear to me. If you're snooping for some alphabet goons, and I mean this from the bottom of my heart. Believe it. FUCK YOU, BITCH!
I'm not hurting anyone (except h² with that link of our music project from twenty years ago. ) and most people who attempt to put their bad trip on me in real life could NEVER deal with the bullshit I have to. Guaranteed.

That doesn't mean I don't mind or want to be on a list or twenty, bitches will bitch I guess. They lists but refuse to do any audits. Go figure.

I have been this "paranoid" LOOOONG before the internet.

All of that being said, the article is great news, but I won't, nor should you, get cocky. Like I said in another post, they can end it all tomorrow. Why aren't they? Something to consider.

[BallzDeep9]

This ain't the FDA, or even, say, a study done by an independent source like a university. (CORRECT) This is a study done by the folks who ban substances (WRONG)

Jeezus man did you EVEN read the particulars ?? It's a small team of Research Scientists, probably under-grads, connected to Johns Hopkins University and funded by NIDA... yes "funded" this kind of shit costs money. Maybe READ the details first ? before launching into some Conspiracy rant... damn.

I don't think, or at least I suspect - OLD people like you and me, are not Qualified. . This is SCIENCE - meaning they want a Control group without unnecessary "Outliers" if you're familiar with Probability & Statistics ... in other words SCIENCE -- Anyone who is ANTI Science - some wacko ANTI Vaxx'er - or Religious Qanon Kook - Need Not Apply! . IT ALSO involves... "Reading and Comprehending" so if you can't do those things... Don't bother.

FOR "normal" people who DO enjoy Kratom (and are probably not TOO old, young, or weird like Me ?) Start HERE -- https://enroll.drugabuse.gov/kratom-nida/

[BallzDeep9]

I essentially said that I, as a scientist with a degree, was appalled that he would even cooperate with these folks (the U of Florida is doing a ton of very good research on Kratom, including growing it in the U.S. as a cash crop but also studying IMPARTIALLY the effects on people - that was why I contacted him in the first place and helped with HIS study).

Uhh... well... Hate to Burst your Bubble of ignorance here but... WHO do you think IS "funding" the U Of Florida team ? Dr McCurdy and Grundmann etc. ?? Right... NIDA. They are working under a HUGE multi million dollar Grant from... Hold onto your hat... NIDA. National Institute Of Drug Abuse.

It's just a NAME. It's a big Government Agency that falls "under" NIH (National Institute Of Health)... They HIRE, and are Staffed by - Scientists. -- https://old.reddit.com/r/kratom/comment ... ida_grant/

FUCK! Old Reddit link's already OUTDATED after only 3 years ?? Here. Try THIS one -- https://pharmacy.ufl.edu/2019/05/13/nid ... tom-grant/

[Kelleytoons]

Sorry, but as usual you're wrong. (And, don't get ME wrong - I do like you, but you are SO far off on things some times it's hard to even have a conversation with you).

And - yes, NIDA funds a lot of things but this particular study (which I DID look up the particulars on) is NOT a good one. It's by the exact same folks who made recommendations to the FDA to ban Kratom in the first place (so perhaps YOU should check the folks attached).

(And I know this because the scientist who asked me to participate told me - he told me particulars even YOU can't find out. He said he was very sorry to have even emailed me).

But - you know FAR better than anyone (geeze - if I didn't know better I'd think you were much older than even I and such an old fogey you have zero idea of anything. But - I've seen enough of your posts here to understand that every now and then you DO post something worthwhile. Not often, but often enough that I pay attention to what you write. And every now and then you post crazy stuff that even the tin foil hat guys wouldn't touch - your poop stuff is one such. But I find it amusing enough that I will ALWAYS read what you write, Mr. B :>).

[Lokey]

Wow, do you think if it became illegal and they had names they'd do search and seizure? Here's some positive news:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Vendorsofkrato ... urce=share

They'd plant it on you if you didn't have any. Don't have any illusions to the contrary. I could tell you real life stories about cops stealing drugs from people I KNOW, again, IRL, and this was nearly twenty years ago. I'm sure it's only MORE shitty now.

As far as being on lists, very likely on many lists, I'm pretty far from a "quiet" internet presence and I've doxxed myself multiple.times here in the public forum even because I really don't care. I am happy I know you guys and if you know more about me than you "should" oh well. This community has gained my trust and even my love in some cases. No! Not like that! Some people here are very dear to me. If you're snooping for some alphabet goons, and I mean this from the bottom of my heart. Believe it. FUCK YOU, BITCH!
I'm not hurting anyone (except h² with that link of our music project from twenty years ago. ) and most people who attempt to put their bad trip on me in real life could NEVER deal with the bullshit I have to. Guaranteed.

That doesn't mean I don't mind or want to be on a list or twenty, bitches will bitch I guess. They lists but refuse to do any audits. Go figure.

I have been this "paranoid" LOOOONG before the internet.

All of that being said, the article is great news, but I won't, nor should you, get cocky. Like I said in another post, they can end it all tomorrow. Why aren't they? Something to consider.

Most of you are way more intelligent, experienced snd knowledgeable than I am even though I'm old but you can tell the cocky ones are not me!

[BallzDeep9]

(And I know this because the scientist who asked me to participate told me - he told me particulars even YOU can't find out. He said he was very sorry to have even emailed me).

Well -- I DID read the Scientist - who posted on Reddit r/kratom yesterday - plus details of the Project - I'll assume you DID NOT read her Post ? (you did not mention it), She seems honest and forthright. It's a user STUDY... Those are needed for kratom. So... I thought OK I'll post the Link here on Double MM - and people can look, and decide for themselves...

BUT, sure enough I find this paranoid Conspiracy thing here... Judgemental, and NO, you don't have "inside information" because a Scientist was sorry he contacted you... (I can't imagine why ?) lol - You came to a WRONG conclusion based on "NIDA" - but then you praise the FLorida team - which is also funded by NIDA.

Making your whole ANTI science, argument look pretty silly ... Anyway. . People should READ the Study - and READ Reddit r/kratom sticky Post from the Scientist - and decide for themselves. Professional studies are needed for kratom. It's completely anonymous. And they PAY you for participating.

[Arob1000]

I took a look at her post, she seems sincere. As a scientist (I'm one too) you have to follow the science and remain impartial.
Funding agencies are just a conduit to get money to fund your research, they don't effect the research. I agree more research needs to be done on kratom.

On an unrelated note, I'm all for Charlotte's Web's peer reviewed research on the benefits of CBD use, but it isn't gaining as much traction as I thought...

[mivanqua]

Now Ballz, no offense, but it's perfectly normal to link "conspiracy" with " government study on kratom." That's absolutely natural, unlike getting shot in the chest with a shotgun and it's kratom that killed you. You know? Any government involvement should be questioned AT LEAST.

[Lokey]

They were overwhelmed with applicants from Reddit and closed apps for now.

[Roofdog]

Now Ballz, no offense, but it's perfectly normal to link "conspiracy" with " government study on kratom." That's absolutely natural, unlike getting shot in the chest with a shotgun and it's kratom that killed you. You know? Any government involvement should be questioned AT LEAST.

I agree. Science is what has caused a lot of problems for a lot of things. Look at what science has done to our food for instance. Gov needs to stay out of this one. Why does more research need to be done on kratom? We all already know what its done for us. What more is going to come from a study by the gov.....nothing good thats for sure. Their conclusion will be "we should have started taxing this a long time ago". Thats where gov science will get us. I am all about an advocate of kratom doing studies ect. Not the gov.

[Chiqqen]

I just want to chime in here really quick, and say that everyone on this thread has valid opinions regarding this subject and there isn't any one particular perspective that is more right than the other.

That being said, I can tell you that just about every Anti - Kratom group under the sun is actively taking this study with full intention of blasting it with negativity. I would not be at all surprised if several of them deliberately send in adulterated product to try and sway the study one way or the other.
Is that, in itself, a reason to take the study? Not necessarily, but it's something to consider. Challenging the negative with ample positive, can and will influence study results. The question at that point is what will be enough. Personally, I know there's more Pro Kratom than Anti, so if even just a percentage of us enroll, we can likely sway results.

All studies need funding, and I feel more comfortable knowing that this study is funded by an agency that stood against the FDA in a Kratom ban, than I would with just about any other agency. Who the study is funded by DOES matter but doesn't *necessarily* influence reasoning. Thats the biggest gamble here, in my opinion.

For the folks worried about putting yourselves on a ''list'', potentially setting yourself up for raids and whatnot from Big Brother:
The reality is, if Big Brother wants you, he's going to get you. All Federal and Monetary agencies log their records, so if the plant is banned, they're going to pull DMV logs, USPS delivery reports, Vendor sales logs, payment exchanges - just about anything that can confirm that kratom was shipped to here or there. USPS and FedEx ALREADY log all mail for Law Enforcement. Its not secret that they actively monitor cellular activity, and pulling personal and internet data is as easy as talking to your ISP.
The paranoia is warranted, I am NOT invalidating anybody's opinions here, but like, we live in the great ole' U S of A, where the government already knows where you sleep, what you eat, and what time you took a piss this morning. They ALREADY know about your stash, this study isn't going to change that, but it CAN change their understanding of WHY you have a stash at all.

For me, it comes down to whatever measures serve to protect the cause of legality, and as much as I too dislike Big Gov, this might just be a necessary evil. Make your own decisions, do your own research, build your own conclusions.
Much love to you all

[Loveandpeace]

I found this Reddit post to be applicable here. This is someone who signed up for the study, got accepted and details briefly...

https://www.reddit.com/r/smallbatchkrat ... tom_study/

[add to descartes]

to me this sounds a lot like conspiracy theory nonsense, which is unfortunately so prevalent these days with the anti-science anti-intellectual fringe ideas becoming commonplace. I get there's a lot of anti-establishment bias here, but take this for what it is - conjecture.

[Kelleytoons]

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

On this study they are asking folks for the name of the vendor they get their Kratom from. Yep - THAT hasn't got any implications whatsoever. I love *most* of you folks here, but some of you clearly didn't live through the 60's or you would know that the government tried EXACTLY the same things with pot. I won't say anything more on this thread because some folks just hate facts but this study is NOT benign.

[Lokey]

They're also asking people to mail them samples of their kratom!

[HalcyonicFrankfurter]

I could not agree more. I posted something like this on reddit and it got blocked. The reddit mods were encouraging people to participate. I wonder if it's just naivete or if they have an agenda.
My point is that because kratom is already legal in most places, there is absolutely nothing good that can come from this. If it was something that was already banned, then it might be a good idea to at least try to convince them otherwise. In this case, the only way they can go is more restriction. And I'm not against participating in studies. I took part in an independent study.
It's kind of annoying that there was a big push for cannabis legalization, yet they are trying to take kratom in the opposite direction.