Custom Blends Synergy - Best Practices?

[Kelleytoons]

So someone here (somewhere - I'm old) posted in the middle of the thread about keeping extensive notes and, essentially, creating your own perfect blends. While I've dabbled with this in the past, I mostly have used secondary batches added to my good stuff, so today I thought I'd shake things up.

My current rotation is 80 different batches (from various vendors, although mostly TFH and Denette) ranked from 2-5 (or, if you like, the simple grading system A-D - I don't have any failed batches in my rotation anymore). I find this system is FAR easier to track than using a more finely tuned one. I just put the number on each bottle (capsules only). It took a while to rank everything, but now that they all are I can mix them up.

This morning I took two grams of a 4 white with 1 gram of a 4 red. The result was definitely a 5 - clearly a standout. When I came home from tennis I tried two 4 reds (each at about 1.5 grams). Again, a knockout, almost literally (I slept for three hours without intending to).

Perhaps just lucky that I went 2 for 2, but it got me to thinking. I've seen a lot of folks mention taking two different batches, but no one I've seen (or remember :>) talked about best practices. So what do you guys who do this routinely do? Do you always mix vendors? NEVER mix vendors? Use two different colors? Use varying ranked batches? Or perhaps a really good one with a poor one?

I'm going to find my sweet spot in all this but so far my thinking is that it really isn't a great idea to use two 5's together - they are already great on their own, so why bother? And I think it's a natural to mix a red with a white, and perhaps even a green. I also think it might be a real good idea to mix vendors up, because a lot of vendors already use blends (so you'd be blending a blend, so to speak). But I want to hear from others. Again, not specifics - with 80 batches the numbers of combinations I could create would last beyond my lifetime. I'd just like to get a very general idea about what normally works best for people so I can try it myself.

[Nelson Baboon]

this is a subject that interests me, and i once posted a question very much like it (i think on one of the discord puddles), but got a bunch of smarmy answers.

but i also wonder about the following dynamic. One 'best practice' in general is not to repeat particular strains in close proximity, on the theory that ones body/mind gets used to that particular mix of alkaloids, and hence it will tend to hit less hard if one doesn't space out the burns appropriately.

But the central idea is that in order for the strain to hit its hardest, that mix of alkaloids would need to be novel to you. it becomes more novel once you 'forget' what it feels like, and maybe repeat the strain in a couple of weeks or so.

Wouldn't the same notion apply to blends? That a blend would tend to hit harder when first created, since the mix of alkaloids is novel - it would be totally analogous to burning a single strain. So that would be one reason why a blend would seem to be so spectacular when first tried.

Aesthetically, i like the notion of taking single strains from a favorite vendor and burning those. but yet i really do like, for instance, blends devised by a vendor - like i really like burning the STH blends. So, i feel like i'm being a bit of a hypocrite. But i do find it true - they work just like single strains work. I can get used to them in exactly the same way.

Just trying to figure this all out for myself. I haven't been blending like i used to because i've been getting so many new drops/strains from various vendors, and trying them out - and still having so many to go before i sleep.....

just thoughts, hopefully somewhat coherent, but fearing the worst.

[Transformato]

I know who that was.
I know there are others that blend doses. And there are few but some- including Shaun at Fused Flora that maintain journals.
That's a life changer thing to do btw. Journal. Learn multiple X faster- from what you would not have remembered. And other benefits beside.


Remember this day Kellytoons. You have now crossed the threshold of another Rarebit Hole.
On the warning label you read: "some study participants had difficulty returning to conventional dosing" <
So it's clear- this has addictive / obsessive potential but I think your capsules might save you from that. I won't recommend #### ######.
I don't want be a bad influence. I call it a high - end problem. But I'm not what I'd call - "sensible".

I've never even thought about keeping vendors varieties segregated. But I leave right/wrong out of it. It's your thing. Mix it up- definitely is my take on it though.

I agree with not mixing your 5's as you put it. Know what? I wouldn't like up to 2/3 of my stuff if I didn't find job placement for 155 out of 158 varieties.
So my system evolved from solving one less-than-ideal matter after another. Then I had to start rolling back complexity some while keeping the benefits.
I've had excellent ones with a lot of semi equal amounts but far more winners have base item(s) and a compliment(s) which might function as:
compliment / contrast or counter balance - whether wanted for dimension or for "insurance" (THIS is exactly how to have the experience from something
that might be uncomfortable sometimes- if kept testing we'd find it changes some each time. Get the insurance policy. Counter balance.
Did I mention brake pads?

You're going to have fun with this.


It was a white variety that was great 4 times before the 5th stomped on an exposed nerve ending - how I put it. Would you believe it?
At 70 minutes past onset, I threw a little red ball at it. I was AGRO but when I nailed it - it was AWESOME. So I never looked back.

[boureka]

I foresee an entire recipe section...kratinis..extra dry (for the toss and wash peeps) or with a twist for the rest.

[Kelleytoons]

Without having to quote individuals here, let me say that I like the theory that a "new" blend hits hard because, like a brand new strain, your body isn't used to it yet. However, given that the amount of combinations I could create is WAY beyond my lifetime I suspect the only way I'd happen to hit upon that same combo without journaling would be completely by accident and so remote it wouldn't be a worry.

And speaking of journaling - I did that my first year or so of kratom use but either because I didn't know nearly enough (true) or because my batches weren't from the greatest of vendors (also true) I didn't find it very valuable and took up WAY too much of my time (at my age the most valuable commodity I have left). So I'm not really looking to get into that again - the benefits just wouldn't outweigh the disadvantages. Which is also why I'm not particularly interested in specifics here (as the thread is titled, I just want general practices). So far, my best practices have been:

1. Don't blend an outstanding batch (no real need)
2. Don't repeat a blend (again, not a real issue given my rotation)
3. Do mix vendors (so don't combine batches from the same vendor)

That's about all I have so far. I will say that, upon further review (as they say) I did this two more times and both of THEM were outstanding (I got such outstanding results that I broke my "only three doses a day", using an extra one. I won't do that again but, as I said, I was on a roll). So that's 4 for 4, and I can't imagine that's just mere coincidence. As the poster above noted, it's most likely because this is a new combo my body has never had hit it before. PLUS we also know it's two (in this case I have not reached beyond two because, well, my life is WAY too short to go further :>) batches that already were good.

So far I've blended: White and a red, green and a red, two reds (twice). Again, the blends were EASILY a 5 in my grading scale (in my scale they'd be a 5+ or A+ depending on how you looked at it) and were only 4's (or B) batches. Today (and mostly this weekend) I still have a few more batches to test before I try any more blends but as another poster above said, this is a rabbit hole of enormous depth that I may never be able to get out of. But since I'm not going to try and repeat the same blend again I don't think I have to worry too much. I guess if I get a complete whiff I could mark that down, but I can't imagine any such blend being "bad", not when it has two good batches in it. I'm guessing the worst it could be would be "okay".

The one last thing I need to pin down is using lesser strains. Oh, speaking of which... (separate post to follow)

[Kelleytoons]

I wanted to make this a separate post because I HATE too long posts and because I think it's significant to this general thread.

A long time ago (okay, perhaps only a year or two ago :>) I got on the kick of using a "booster" (no vax stuff intended) that was kind of like a second stage rocket. The idea was you took around 2/3 your normal dose and then about 30 minutes later you took the other third but using a different batch. The idea was the rocket got so far up and then, as it started to fade, you "boosted" up again. The other part of this was the booster could be anything - even a total whiff batch - because it didn't seem to matter what you used.

This was my mode of dosing for a LONG time (almost a year) until I got so much goodness from such folks as TFH that I decided it wasn't necessary. (My rotation, however, is still set up this way with the main bottle jars taking up most of the rows and the small, prescription size "booster" batches on the side, although I never use them anymore).

What this has to do with this other thread is I am now thinking I need to revisit the lesser batches (3 or lower) that I removed from my rotation and blend THOSE, either with each other or with a 4 to see if that blending makes them viable. I took out a LOT of batches from my rotation - perhaps as much as 100 - so this is indeed a rabbit hole of immense proportions but I think I'll at least play a bit to see how well those turn out (I can't exactly put those back into my general rotation because I only have enough rack space to hold my 80 and my wife, for SOME odd reason, is opposed to me taking up one side of the kitchen for my stuff).

[Kelleytoons]

Ooo, I knew there was something else I wanted to address (sigh).

The practice of using unequal amounts. Again, I'm only talking about two batches here - beyond that the complexities (and possible benefits) are just too bewildering for me to handle (plus if I put three into the mix I'd go through my rotation WAY too fast. As it is my month rotation rack will be shrunk to two weeks if I use everything as a blend).

So far my 4 for 4 has been with *mostly* equal amounts (using capsules it's a bit trickier since because of the way the grind can be for any batch you can fit different amounts into each capsule. Plus I do NOT want to overshoot 3 grams, which is my absolute limit for any one dose). And, again, each time it was a home run. However - when I did the white with a red it was 2/3 white with 1/3 red (my theory was that I was trying to get a bit of pain relief in there but no sleepiness since I was off for tennis). So now I'm going to have to think about amounts now. Sigh.

[IdiopathicPain247]

I keep a journal of the effect of each batch. I too have a scale system of 5 being the best. I have started mixing batches. This morning I took 2 grams of White Indo, waited an hour and then took 2 grams D615 green. I take 3 grams of a good red about 1:30pm and nap for about an hour. At 6pm I take a good green 2 grams, and hour later either the same batch or mix with 1 gram of green. I take 3 grams of red at 10pm and sleep till about 2am. This time is the hardest and most painful. Pain level is 8-9. I then take 8 grams of a red and about 3/4 of the time fall asleep again and sleep until about 5:15. I am rotating batches of which I keep track of in my journal. That is about 18gpd. I have been trying this for about 2 weeks. I am having some constipation. I drink a lot of de-caf/herbal tea mix. I am taking psyllium husk ( teaspoon) per day, and about every other day take some MiraLax. I am doing fine with this system. Most of time my neuropathy is such that I can function well through the day. That IS tthe reason I started Kratom.

[BallzDeep9]

And speaking of Journaling - I did that my first year or so of kratom use but either because I didn't know nearly enough (true) or because my batches weren't from the greatest of vendors (also true) I didn't find it very valuable and took up WAY too much of my time (at my age the most valuable commodity I have left). So I'm not really looking to get into that again

Same here, and Same here & finally breaking myself of that silly habit (being very anal about always mixing "strains" lol) ~ I did Journal for 1+ year and, figured it would help identify blend combo's. (Usually just 2 in equal amounts.) Or strains or vendors ? But being a retired programmer, it became very clear that GIGO = garbage in and out. .. Strain names mean nothing - but maybe starting out I was like a lot of people buying into myths and OR, "tracking" my Reds and Greens and whites & associated effects until ... Finally realizing that what I rated a Top Combo, score "5" from last month - Same blend might score only 3-4, based on external factors. Food, sleep, etc.

Still have my Journal book, representing hours of valuable time lol - But ya Live and Learn, right ? Oh well. Blending IS a habit... but imo IF I gained anything it's appreciation for Top Quality leaf, vs the Low average stuff (which sadly is more common these days ?) When you buy carefully & the majority of your stash is Top Shelf - differences are small. Of course, no actual proof of Alkaloid Profiles, since most vendors still don't TEST potency anyway...

And although TOTAL alks may change (Top quality to Low) the RATIO of alks are much the same. Sure, the alks in real Red color, oxidized or fermented Leaf... are different, but weaker, and I'd guess most of us prefer stronger, Green color powder over the weak Red stuff. So maybe my Journal was helpful in pointing that out ?

Custom Blends ARE still, alive and well, for me - Blending with different extract types. from basic Tea, Red bubble, to the crude Indo "crystal" type, to newer high quality 70% Mit class. As long as you use a milligram scale, carefully splitting 1 Gram into tenths - and then splitting that into 5 servings - Even the strong stuff (Example: the 76% Astral Amber sold by DTE Botanicals !) ~ Goal being a Blend with more alkaloids VS Plain Leaf... sky's the limit really.

[Transformato]

And speaking of Journaling - I did that my first year or so of kratom use but either because I didn't know nearly enough (true) or because my batches weren't from the greatest of vendors (also true) I didn't find it very valuable and took up WAY too much of my time (at my age the most valuable commodity I have left). So I'm not really looking to get into that again

Same here, and Same here & finally breaking myself of that silly habit (being very anal about always mixing "strains" lol) ~ I did Journal for 1+ year and, figured it would help identify blend combo's. (Usually just 2 in equal amounts.) Or strains or vendors ? But being a retired programmer, it became very clear that GIGO = garbage in and out. .. Strain names mean nothing - but maybe starting out I was like a lot of people buying into myths and OR, "tracking" my Reds and Greens and whites & associated effects until ... Finally realizing that what I rated a Top Combo, score "5" from last month - Same blend might score only 3-4, based on external factors. Food, sleep, etc.

Still have my Journal book, representing hours of valuable time lol - But ya Live and Learn, right ? Oh well. Blending IS a habit... but imo IF I gained anything it's appreciation for Top Quality leaf, vs the Low average stuff (which sadly is more common these days ?) When you buy carefully & the majority of your stash is Top Shelf - differences are small. Of course, no actual proof of Alkaloid Profiles, since most vendors still don't TEST potency anyway...

And although TOTAL alks may change (Top quality to Low) the RATIO of alks are much the same. Sure, the alks in real Red color, oxidized or fermented Leaf... are different, but weaker, and I'd guess most of us prefer stronger, Green color powder over the weak Red stuff. So maybe my Journal was helpful in pointing that out ?

Custom Blends ARE still, alive and well, for me - Blending with different extract types. from basic Tea, Red bubble, to the crude Indo "crystal" type, to newer high quality 70% Mit class. As long as you use a milligram scale, carefully splitting 1 Gram into tenths - and then splitting that into 5 servings - Even the strong stuff (Example: the 76% Astral Amber sold by DTE Botanicals !) ~ Goal being a Blend with more alkaloids VS Plain Leaf... sky's the limit really.

betch can't guess which finger I'm holding up
Trash in is right- here comes trash talking extract pusher - like what's up with that. I've never seen anyone do that before.

[Kelleytoons]

While Mr. B is someone I nearly ALWAYS listen to AND agree with, when it comes to extracts he and I differ greatly.

And I won't get into it here - not really the topic - but for me it always comes down to... if extracts really work, then why won't taking more KRATOM work? Which we know it doesn't. Chasing your tail by taking more just kills your tolerance and stops the entire effort. So why would an extract - an extract of kratom - not just be the same thing? Unless someone is suggesting that the "other" stuff in kratom (the intangibles) is what causes intolerance issues. Which I think is bullshit.

So I completely draw the line at extracts - just seems very, very foolish to me - and don't really need them anyway. With my low doses and rotation (and keeping my body "clean" in all the other important ways) I've never had kratom stop working for me, and working well.

But that's a whole other topic. Blends I still think are a VERY interesting thing I will continue to explore (not this morning - testing a batch of something I need to pin down. But it's VERY good.

[Nelson Baboon]

While Mr. B is someone I nearly ALWAYS listen to AND agree with, when it comes to extracts he and I differ greatly.

And I won't get into it here - not really the topic - but for me it always comes down to... if extracts really work, then why won't taking more KRATOM work? Which we know it doesn't. Chasing your tail by taking more just kills your tolerance and stops the entire effort. So why would an extract - an extract of kratom - not just be the same thing? Unless someone is suggesting that the "other" stuff in kratom (the intangibles) is what causes intolerance issues. Which I think is bullshit.

So I completely draw the line at extracts - just seems very, very foolish to me - and don't really need them anyway. With my low doses and rotation (and keeping my body "clean" in all the other important ways) I've never had kratom stop working for me, and working well.

But that's a whole other topic. Blends I still think are a VERY interesting thing I will continue to explore (not this morning - testing a batch of something I need to pin down. But it's VERY good.

I LIKE getting to know the good vendors, and trying their kratom. There are occasions, mostly due to my own overuse, where things don't hit for me, but that is my own fault, and like you say - doing more just makes that experience more frustrating. I also know that if i start experimenting with extracts, despite the admonition to do less of it, and calculate your total dose to be about the same as with pure powder, I would likely fail at that endeavor. I simply am not tempted at all to enhance my experience by experimenting with extract. There is just something more satisfying to me in taking a couple of grams of drhk3, or a new denette strain, or something from lsms. And i simply don't think that it would be that easy, and worth the time and effort, to try to replicate the overall experience of, say, the drhk3 by taking some bulk kratom and experimenting with extracts, to fail miserably over and over. I want to keep this fun, as much as i can.

I will experiment more with blending, once I catch up a little with all of the strains that i've been capturing, but yeah - i'd like to have some kind of a theory to go by, rather than just mixing blindly. I like this topic.

[dantheleafman]

I think blending is a fabulous idea! I wish I were as disciplined as some of the journal keepers, but I'm not that way about anything in life. I'm more of an instinctual, "shoot from the hip" kind of blender. The only consistent rule I use is the 70/30 ratio. Although I break that all of the time in some of my "mad scientist" fits.

I'm absolutely for blending two top strains, especially if I'm looking for contrasting effects like a fast white/slow red "pink" blend. In fact, I really only do two types of blends. One for synergistic effects and one for contrasting effects. I even like to throw extract in the mix and make my own "enhanced" blends and have achieved some pretty special magic doing that.

It's a shame I'm not a notebook keeper as I've probably forgotten some of the great blends I've stumbled upon. But for me, that's part of the fun of it too. Hmmmm .... what will this one get like?

[Kelleytoons]

But for me, that's part of the fun of it too. Hmmmm .... what will this one get like?

I still think one of the best things about kratom are the effects are NOT predictable - it's like having many varieties of great wine but you have zero idea how they will taste each time you try them. I think it would be a pretty sad day if I could pin any one strain down and know EXACTLY what would happen when I take it (but of course that will never be - just my personal body conditions alone add so much to the equation it's impossible to predict).

When you add blends into the mix (so to speak) the roulette wheel spin gets even more complicated - and, yes, that is a huge part of the fun in it for me. I think about the only thing I really want to keep track of in my kratom is which strains "work" and which don't. That's pretty clear - while I have some that took a while to hit once I know whether a strain is good it stays good, and no "bad" one has ever come back to life. BUT now I'm introducing blends to the table and perhaps even this hard and fast rule will change. That's one of the things I want to experiment with next (I have around 100 batches I've removed from my rotation but now I'm going to mix them in and see what happens).

[dantheleafman]

Yeah man, with a private stock like yours the possilities are unlimited! Would love to hear about some of the more interesting ones you come across!

[BallzDeep9]

And I won't get into it here - not really the topic - but for me it always comes down to... if extracts really work, then why won't taking more KRATOM work? Which we know it doesn't. Chasing your tail by taking more just kills your tolerance and stops the entire effort. So why would an extract - an extract of kratom - not just be the same thing? Unless someone is suggesting that the "other" stuff in kratom (the intangibles) is what causes intolerance issues. Which I think is bullshit.

Well, the Topic "Custom Blends" should include all forms and sources of Kratom - don't you think? Or should this Topic, that you started - Only include your vendors, and your Plain Leaf "strains" ? Hey - it's an OPEN forum. We're trying to have a community here of All things Kratom... Not just a Private Vendors discussion.. Of course herbal extracts "Work", why wouldn't they ? By basic definition they work better since they're stronger.

But I'm not trying to HAVE an Extract discussion. Only to participate in this Custom Blends topic and, share MY years experience consuming and blending... Since you mentioned Journals - I shared my experience with that... In recent past, we've talked about, Daily consumption - Which it seems we both agree on? "Less Is More". I've just taken that to a different level - along with my understanding of Kratom - and to reflect how, the business has changed over time. We Consumers - Now have a MUCH better variety of different Kratom Products available!!

It's 2023. We have more vendors than ever, w/ larger selection of Products, being sold online... So I'll cut this short and offer, 1- I brew Kratom Tea - an extract. I remove the plant matter. Is that ALSO considered a no-no, from those who are being negative here? 2- Yes I still agree, Less Is More.. So in fact my Plain Leaf consumption is LESS! Which leaves more room for occasional blends, with extract. Enhanced kratom ~ IS a blend! When your powder - turns into Liquid - blending cocktails is easy!

Since Double MM is an OPEN forum, imo the "More the Merrier" on different Kratom topics ?

[dantheleafman]

And I won't get into it here - not really the topic - but for me it always comes down to... if extracts really work, then why won't taking more KRATOM work? Which we know it doesn't. Chasing your tail by taking more just kills your tolerance and stops the entire effort. So why would an extract - an extract of kratom - not just be the same thing? Unless someone is suggesting that the "other" stuff in kratom (the intangibles) is what causes intolerance issues. Which I think is bullshit.

Well, the Topic "Custom Blends" should include all forms and sources of Kratom - don't you think? Or should this Topic, that you started - Only include your vendors, and your Plain Leaf "strains" ? Hey - it's an OPEN forum. We're trying to have a community here of All things Kratom... Not just a Private Vendors discussion.. Of course herbal extracts "Work", why wouldn't they ? By basic definition they work better since they're stronger.

But I'm not trying to HAVE an Extract discussion. Only to participate in this Custom Blends topic and, share MY years experience consuming and blending... Since you mentioned Journals - I shared my experience with that... In recent past, we've talked about, Daily consumption - Which it seems we both agree on? "Less Is More". I've just taken that to a different level - along with my understanding of Kratom - and to reflect how, the business has changed over time. We Consumers - Now have a MUCH better variety of different Kratom Products available!!

It's 2023. We have more vendors than ever, w/ larger selection of Products, being sold online... So I'll cut this short and offer, 1- I brew Kratom Tea - an extract. I remove the plant matter. Is that ALSO considered a no-no, from those who are being negative here? 2- Yes I still agree, Less Is More.. So in fact my Plain Leaf consumption is LESS! Which leaves more room for occasional blends, with extract. Enhanced kratom ~ IS a blend! When your powder - turns into Liquid - blending cocktails is easy!

Since Double MM is an OPEN forum, imo the "More the Merrier" on different Kratom topics ?

I make a lot of different teas, blend in extracts, all sorts of different ingestion and extraction methods. So I'm all for including them in the mix!

[boureka]

Question:
Just asking .. is there a difference between blending your dose and taking ¾ of it and bumping the final ¼ with another strain/batch 30 minutes later?

[Arob1000]

Love this conversation. I haven't dabbled much in blends other than mixing in DRHK3 into anything to make it better but I'd prefer to only have 4's and 5's in my rotation. . If I have a "dud" (average kratom) it won't be in my rotation for more than a few doses. I find that if I'm blending I usually blend 2-3parts of the main component with 1 part of the "booster" (DRKH3/Otie's 2022 White Elephant/etc). My favorite blend of all time is 3:1 TFH Red Hangat Hulu with 2022 Otie's White Elephant...I need to bring that blend back in my rotation!

[Kelleytoons]

Question:
Just asking .. is there a difference between blending your dose and taking ¾ of it and bumping the final ¼ with another strain/batch 30 minutes later?

There is for me - I was a big proponent of the "booster" method but I have to say it's no comparison to taking the blend. The blend works like a brand new batch to your body - it hits it in very different and amazing ways. "Boosting" doesn't do the same thing at all - I never got as good results from my 2/3 - then 1/3 method (got decent results, but all my blends have been hitting it out of the park).

[Kelleytoons]

Love this conversation. I haven't dabbled much in blends other than mixing in DRHK3 into anything to make it better but I'd prefer to only have 4's and 5's in my rotation. . If I have a "dud" (average kratom) it won't be in my rotation for more than a few doses. I find that if I'm blending I usually blend 2-3parts of the main component with 1 part of the "booster" (DRKH3/Otie's 2022 White Elephant/etc). My favorite blend of all time is 3:1 TFH Red Hangat Hulu with 2022 Otie's White Elephant...I need to bring that blend back in my rotation!

I'm now down to ONLY 4/5's in my rotation - but using those 80 or so batches in blends are AMAZING. However, I haven't (yet) done the same blend twice and probably won't, because I think why a blend works is the same as why a new batch does - you body just isn't use to it.

(That's my theory and so far I'm sticking to it :>).

[Kelleytoons]

Most of my blends are 50/50 but when I use a red with a green or white it's usually 2 grams to 1 gram of red.

My capsules are always the same color as the kratom type (in general). For my HL pistachio dream I used light mint green. I just have to say I'm looking at my evening dose and it's light green with some red mixed in to it and it looks lovely, like some kind of cocktail <bg>.