Coming to America - African Kratom

[gumbyke1]

How would you all feel about your kratom if it was coming from Africa instead of Indonesia? There have been a lot of efforts in diversifying supply as of late... I know a few different locations where they are getting plantations started. I just wanted to get a pulse on what the community thinks about it.

Thanks!

[acejestyr15]

Honestly don't care where it comes from!!! How many of us can say for sure where our current Kratom purchases stem from. In all reality you can grow on the moon for all I care, long as can verify its good leaf, than that's all that matters to me!!

[BallzDeep9]

No, because the tree is NOT native outside of Southeast Asia: M. speciosa is indigenous to: Thailand, Indonesia, Malaysia, Myanmar, and Papua New Guinea, where it has been used in traditional medicines since at least the nineteenth century.

Yes there is some fake kratom being grown and harvested, anywhere and everywhere in attempt to make money... For example Phillipines, which is actually very close to Indo. However based on many kilos shipped out of the Phillipines.. it's just not the same. A close relative called Mambog does grow wild in the Phillipines. It's not the same leaf.

Sure anything's possible in the future.. 10 maybe 20 years down the road ? For NOW I will prefer wild harvest kratom from 30-year old trees in Borneo and Sumatra. There's plenty of jungle forest area that is totally un-touched... The current harvest in West Kalimantan around Kapuas River, is only a teeny tiny part of Indonesia!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitragyna_speciosa

[Quercus]

I think the idea is fascinating with a lot of potential positives. If areas with suitable soil and climate are available that can produce high quality kratom, why not give it a try? I'm very curious about the impact a totally new group of growing parameters might have on alkaloid concentration and distribution. I also wonder if an entire new environment might trigger changes in gene expression so that a new variety, or even subspecies of Mitragyna speciosa could develop over time. True, it would be a very long time since we're talking trees here, but who knows? I think the idea is definitely worth pursuing because it has the potential to add more variability to what is currently available. I would definitely give African-sourced kratom a try.

I'm also very much in favor of anything that involves planting trees and removing CO2 from the atmosphere.

[Ezriderx2x]

I agree that I do not care where it comes from, but as you are already seeing you will face some doubters. You will also have those who doubt strictly because it is different from what they have had in the past, the age of the tree or possibly a bad experience. Good quality or not you face that placebo effect once they have doubt in their mind. Thus is the same with any change. Regardless of where it comes from my satisfaction comes strictly from overall quality and uniqueness.

[pray4peace4]

I'd have no problem with it AS LONG AS IT'S GOOD QUALITY. I mean, seriously, why would anyone object to that? The assumption that kratom grown outside East Asia cannot be any good is speculation, not fact. There is value in considering that kratom has had probably millions of years to adapt to East Asian tropical climate & soil, so... can that be duplicated in Africa is the question. Someone I know is familiar with a plantation here in the USA & he said their kratom is extremely good. I'm taking his word for it because I've never tried it. Someone sent me some leaves from his kratom tree in his yard & I can attest that it was crap. Marijuana didn't originate in the USA but it seems to be doing just fine, so I think there's hope for kratom grown in other countries that have tropical climate or can be in an equivalent man-made environment.

[Tiggermanscrat]

This sounds like a great idea as long as the quality is good.
Would be interesting to see the effects of the same strains from different parts of the world.
I think Brazil may also be a great place for growing kratom.

[instantKARMA]

I think the idea is fascinating with a lot of potential positives. If areas with suitable soil and climate are available that can produce high quality kratom, why not give it a try? I'm very curious about the impact a totally new group of growing parameters might have on alkaloid concentration and distribution. I also wonder if an entire new environment might trigger changes in gene expression so that a new variety, or even subspecies of Mitragyna speciosa could develop over time. True, it would be a very long time since we're talking trees here, but who knows? I think the idea is definitely worth pursuing because it has the potential to add more variability to what is currently available. I would definitely give African-sourced kratom a try.

I'm also very much in favor of anything that involves planting trees and removing CO2 from the atmosphere.

My thoughts exactly. It may well be that alkaloid content, concentration and distribution could be effected by
different soil conditions and environment. I, for one, would be interested in trying it! Of course, I really don't care
if it originates from BFE as long as the quality is there. After all, that's what all of us are after...quality, potent leaf!

[NerdsTakeOnTheWorld]

However based on many kilos shipped out of the Phillipines.. it's just not the same. A close relative called Mambog does grow wild in the Phillipines. It's not the same leaf.

Mambog is Mytragyna speciosa and has grown wild in certain parts of the Philippines for decades. It is the same leaf, the problem supposedly is they dont grow in the same ground that you see in Borneo and the philippines "farmers" likely arent drying it the same way that's been learned in Indo. Supposedly the alkaloid makeup of real Thai and real Malay Kratom is different also. That's just how plants are.

[fusedflora]

I think there's very few areas in Africa where soil would support even moderate alkaloid content kratom. Not to mention lack of rain. Certainly there's rain forests there, but indo/malay/south china sea gets many more nutrients in the air on their forests from the pacific current. It's rich soil and nutrient rich rain. That and the areas in Africa where are feasible and not optimal, there are a lot of problems with distribution (weak government, war ridden, local militants, and corruption). I just don't think it'd be quality at all.

I'd be concerned with sanitation too. There's been lots of problems with vectors in Africa and the rise of a lot of disease due to conditions there. Where kratom could grow, well those are hot spots for ebola, malaria, marburg, and a few other really nasty things. I'd be leery, I mean there's a reason why you don't drink the water, import many of the crops, or see canned food from Africa. Again, yes there are exceptions, but overall, unless it's in South Africa, Morocco, Egypt, or some place that has their stuff together, I would think the risk outweighs the potential benefits (small chance of a better crop).

[gumbyke1]

The quality can be accounted for, that wouldn't be my concern. There is nothing specifically special about the Indonesian soil that prohibits quality kratom from growing elsewhere... just like many of the world's crops didn't originate in the place they are now mostly grown. Soil composition certainly plays a part, but I can assure you that there has been plenty of testing on how to increase the production of secondary metabolites in kratom trees, they absolutely can be manipulated.

My biggest concern would be sanitation as well, although It's already an issue in Indonesia. I wouldn't feel comfortable sourcing in Africa without heavy oversite and a clear "leaf chain of custody".

[Crunch]

I think my biggest concern is the potential use of pesticide/herbacide type stuff. I don't worry much about it right now because I believe much of what is being imported is being harvested from wild trees, which grow just fine without chemical help. However, if there is a large number of plants being domesticated and grown in a location that isn't native then the potential for the use of non-organic chemicals is exponentially greater.

All I'm saying is that I'd rather not develop some weird ass-cancer when the wild grown kratom seems to be getting the job done just fine.

[gumbyke1]

Actually, most of the kratom imported is not wild grown, its plantation. I don't think you would have to worry much about chemicals. The alkaloids in kratom are actually its natural defense, it's a very hearty tree that naturally keeps pests at bay. There is really no danger of chemical use in Indonesia because there really is no need, and nobody could afford to do so anyway. I think the same would apply in most other places.

What you would need to worry about is general sanitation, and the equipment used to mill the powder. Most of the Indonesian suppliers now use stainless steel blades, but not too long ago that wasn't the case. non-stainless steel machines are less expensive any would probably be the first choice for people new to the industry to purchase.

[Oletimer]

Well, ,that's something to think about, where else, besides Indonesian area,, are growing conditions similar? Islands around south america? Hawaii? Madagascar? Costa rica,? Polynesian islands? I really don't know, but isn't Africa a place where crops are hard to grow? ?I don't care where it comes from as long as it is good,,,and not outrageously priced,, seems like the effort involved in reproducing a fertile soil for trees to grow,,and everything else,,would drive up prices,,oh well, ,that's all,

[GrannyJ62]

What about homegrown I have a little garden of weed where I clone from a momma IF I could get a good clone of Kratom couldn't I put her in my homemade garden adjusted accordingly. I know that's a lot of ifs if I could get a clone that's how I've been thinkpad just grow for me What's your thoughts

[mivanqua]

What about homegrown I have a little garden of weed where I clone from a momma IF I could get a good clone of Kratom couldn't I put her in my homemade garden adjusted accordingly. I know that's a lot of ifs if I could get a clone that's how I've been thinkpad just grow for me What's your thoughts

PM labdog. He may have some left.