Good news from Thailand

[Babel-17]

https://www.thestar.com.my/news/regiona ... otics-list

BANGKOK (ANN): Justice Minister Somsak Thepsuthin and Minister of Public Health Anutin Charnvirakul signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) on Friday (Dec 27) to remove Kratom leaves from Thailand’s list of narcotics.

It aimed to study the impact of using marijuana and kratom leaves for other purposes, instead of as narcotics.

Witnesses at the MOU signing included representatives of the Office of Narcotics Control Board (ONCB) and other relevant agencies.

Somsak has said that kratom leaves did not match the narcotics characteristics specified by World Health Organization (WHO).

[Dale_Tisane]

I'll stir one up to celebrate.

[Greyfeather]

So, GOOD; no longer vilified as 'narcotics'. This really does sound like great news.

But, in the U.S. cannabis is still schedule I and (despite statewide legalization) your doctor won't talk about it (might, in fact DISCONTINUE treatment [FIRE YOU] if you do). Kratom will only ever be considered another schedule 1 substance

I brought up Medical MJ card to my Rheumatologist last week and she all but said "You will never get pain meds if you do it." I haven't had weed since I was 17 (SEVENTEEN). thought I would try it for pain, but F-That.

I need labs every 3 months but now this bitch will probably start screening me for MJ just because I brought it up ( I will not be buying it. I can't believe it would be anywhere as effective as kratom and 4 times more $$ every month).

OK, I'm ranting. This is Good NEWS, but what the U.S. will do with it is absolutely un-related. If Big Pharm can't profit, they will make us suffer.

Stay on top of the issue folks. Use the internet - find out where your local and state government stands on this issue!! You could lose your access to this remedy overnight. Don't let that happen!!

[mivanqua]

Now, here's the thing. I'm a fan of marijuana, not so much for myself these days, but still. The kiddos love it! Anyway, there is a question I've had about medical marijuana for pain. I've always read, and found out first hand with bangin' toothaches, that marijuana is a SENSITIZER, meaning it amplifies whatever is going on, good or bad. I realize that different strains are engineered to have certain attributes, but how much can you REALLY change the effects of a plant? I know! Coming from a kratom user that sounds like an odd question, but you get the idea. How does a sensitizer HELP pain? It always made mine much worse and more "all encompassing," if you will...anyone have good experiences for pain management?

[RumRunner]

My question is will Thailand kratom suppliers and growers now be able to export? I’ve heard there’s untouched forests there.

[brave777]

My question is will Thailand kratom suppliers and growers now be able to export? I’ve heard there’s untouched forests there.

I think if Thai government was smart, they would hire people to collect and promote best kratom prototypes to be grown every where. Not only they will make more money, also the population of Thailand will be happy while people around the word get off hard drugs or use it in general for many reasons, pain, stress, etc. i think they probably on the right path since they already removed it from narcotics list, next step i am sure is to start plantations.. i guess we can only watch and see what happens.

[chortle]

@mivanqua

Interesting pov, speaking to the empathic, 'bringing MORE' over of whatever you focus on, specifically its psychedelic properties of Cannabis. I never thought about that but it makes sense. However, I'm fairly certain people being Rx'd for pain and seizures and other ailments are most likely using some form of Cannabis Indica, either Indica dominant (80/20 Indica:Sativa or otherwise) or hybrid 1:1 50/50 Indica to Sativa genetics or just pure Indica. Indica's provide a more narcotic like effect (some Sativa's as well but mostly Indica works on the body, esp edibles or pills containing decarbed Cannabis products whereas Sativa works more on the mind/brain and CNS to a degree) and Sativa's are more stimulating to the mind and senses. I live in IL and am excited to be able to buy pure Sativa strains to help with my depression and foster more nature walks. Maybe a pure Indica for sleep. I like hybrids (most on the street are at least) but I am seeking pure genetics (MJ Nazi lol) of some old school strains that don't come around much often.

Kind of similar to fast greens & whites = pure Sativas and Sativa dom hybrids

Slow reds/greens/whites = pure Indica/Indica dom hybrids

Cannabis Sativa works primarily on the mind/brain, cerebreal oriented

Cannabis Indica works primarily on the body

The Terpenes present in Cannabis alter the experience (or high) as well (which influence the smell and flavor profile of one strain to the next) "THC is like the gas pedal in a car and Terpenes are like the steering wheel", interesting quote I just came across.

Hope this helps. It really is a bummer how Cannabis is profiled in the US (and large part of the 'West', so advanced, yeah right!) Our body has innumerable Cannabinoids and receptors which utilize them for a vast array of operations to keep us alive and balanced, homeostasis. Seeing as how this plant produces primarily Cannabinoids, we should value it much highly than we do (as a society, and speaking to the medical professions) and should have special status to be protected and researched, etc. People should be encouraged to grow in their homes for whatever reason they may need it or like to use it recreationally. Only negatives for me is the smell, when smoking it advertises in a large radius that someone is smoking weed or having it on your person you are going to reek unless you have it vacuum sealed or in a container or bag which is air tight. And the munchies! Although I don't mind as I have a generally fast metabolism and enjoy food. But if you're on a tight budget, that can be troublesome.


https://www.leafly.com/news/strains-pro ... ating-pain

https://www.leafly.com/news/cannabis-10 ... abis-types

https://www.healthline.com/health/sativa-vs-indica

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheOCS/comment ... one_chart/

https://www.reddit.com/r/MMJ/comments/8 ... different/

[Greyfeather]

Now, here's the thing. I'm a fan of marijuana, not so much for myself these days, but still. The kiddos love it! Anyway, there is a question I've had about medical marijuana for pain. I've always read, and found out first hand with bangin' toothaches, that marijuana is a SENSITIZER, meaning it amplifies whatever is going on, good or bad. I realize that different strains are engineered to have certain attributes, but how much can you REALLY change the effects of a plant? I know! Coming from a kratom user that sounds like an odd question, but you get the idea. How does a sensitizer HELP pain? It always made mine much worse and more "all encompassing," if you will...anyone have good experiences for pain management?

Hey mivanqua!!
It really is embarrassing that I've been on this planet 5 decades but still know virtually nothing about weed. I never had the 'friend groups' (contacts) or expendable income to buy it. And since it was illegal anyway, I just gave it a pass and bought into Big Alcohol.

But WOW, your comment takes me back to my first experience with Weed. I was 17, out of school for the summer, running around with some older 'city kids'. One late night we ended up a a tiny strip=mall shoe shop - AFTER HOURS. The manager let us in, then brought our one of those vintage(?) 5 foot tall all-glass bongs (with red roses engraved into it).

As a 87 lb. girl without muscles I literally could not hoist that smoke to the top of the pipe. A dude had to do it and blow it into my mouth.

All I felt was Massive Anxiety. I was supposed to chill out, yeah? No. After an hour I was shaking with dread. The same thing happened 12 years later.

I understand that there are several types - Sativa and Indica. Some people - Online - say that their pain is lessened. But I DID read some articles that echo exactly what you wrote: That marajuana only INCREASED the Subject's pain.

I don't know if I want to spend $300.00 finding out if this is true: only to be dumped by my only Dr.

[brave777]

Grey your not alone, i have same reaction to weed. Anxiety trough the roof, and any alcohol mixed i will puke my guts out. On the other side i know a lot who smoke some weed to have great sex because it increases sensitivity but not kill pain.

[mivanqua]

Thank you all for your insight into this perplexing topic. Pot USED TO give me a lot that I was looking for in the inspiration department. Nowadays, i can't even fathom taking it unless i take amphetamines to counteract the paranoia and bad head trip it sends me on. I think kratom plays a huge part in that. Pot just hasn't been the same since I started. Also, when I was a daily smoker, when this designer bud was few and far between, the Mexican brick was what I got in my neighborhood. Although this sounds strange because that designer stuff is so pretty, the brick weed had something that I really loved that IS NOT in the designer stuff. The designer stuff just wants to send you over the moon, and even when I used heroin (and all other drugs inclusive here) I was always going for a FUNCTIONAL dose, not a nod. I like feeling INSPIRED and lots of drugs can give you that feeling until they don't. These days, I can't find inspiration anywhere! I feel like it's water in "The Rime of The Ancient Mariner" by Coleridge, Water as far as the eye can see, but not a drop to drink. I KNOW there is non drug-induced inspiration out there somewhere, I just haven't seen it in years.

[brave777]

Thank you all for your insight into this perplexing topic. Pot USED TO give me a lot that I was looking for in the inspiration department. Nowadays, i can't even fathom taking it unless i take amphetamines to counteract the paranoia and bad head trip it sends me on. I think kratom plays a huge part in that. Pot just hasn't been the same since I started. Also, when I was a daily smoker, when this designer bud was few and far between, the Mexican brick was what I got in my neighborhood. Although this sounds strange because that designer stuff is so pretty, the brick weed had something that I really loved that IS NOT in the designer stuff. The designer stuff just wants to send you over the moon, and even when I used heroin (and all other drugs inclusive here) I was always going for a FUNCTIONAL dose, not a nod. I like feeling INSPIRED and lots of drugs can give you that feeling until they don't. These days, I can't find inspiration anywhere! I feel like it's water in "The Rime of The Ancient Mariner" by Coleridge, Water as far as the eye can see, but not a drop to drink. I KNOW there is non drug-induced inspiration out there somewhere, I just haven't seen it in years.

What do you mean there is no inspiration good drug? have you looked into Ayahuasca?

[Luk3]

The key to weed these days is a very low dosage. Don’t try to over do it. That inspiration can still be found with the proper variety. That being said I used to smoke all the time and after using kratom a few years it is something I rarely use anymore, except in the evenings.

[mivanqua]

Thank you all for your insight into this perplexing topic. Pot USED TO give me a lot that I was looking for in the inspiration department. Nowadays, i can't even fathom taking it unless i take amphetamines to counteract the paranoia and bad head trip it sends me on. I think kratom plays a huge part in that. Pot just hasn't been the same since I started. Also, when I was a daily smoker, when this designer bud was few and far between, the Mexican brick was what I got in my neighborhood. Although this sounds strange because that designer stuff is so pretty, the brick weed had something that I really loved that IS NOT in the designer stuff. The designer stuff just wants to send you over the moon, and even when I used heroin (and all other drugs inclusive here) I was always going for a FUNCTIONAL dose, not a nod. I like feeling INSPIRED and lots of drugs can give you that feeling until they don't. These days, I can't find inspiration anywhere! I feel like it's water in "The Rime of The Ancient Mariner" by Coleridge, Water as far as the eye can see, but not a drop to drink. I KNOW there is non drug-induced inspiration out there somewhere, I just haven't seen it in years.

What do you mean there is no inspiration good drug? have you looked into Ayahuasca?

I would LOVE to try ayahuasca, however in my circles it's a little hard to find.

[chortle]

Have dreamed about trying Ayahuasca on a couple occasions. I had tried making it the semi-traditional way of preparing. Began with the B. Caapi vine (thick pieces! NOT easy to break up after soaking overnight, maybe should have soaked longer?) and boiled with the leaves (Chacruna, P. Viridis, for hours. Think I didn't make it strong enough, needed more steeping time or else more material. Didn't get too much effects beyond what you might feel off Syrian Rue seeds extract, slightly elevated mood/energy, slight psychedelic headspace but mostly stimulant feeling yet dream-like. I remember dry heaving a little bit, nothing extreme. Usually, when/if (majority of times you are going to) get sick, you feel like a weight has been lifted from your shoulders/chest, what have you and is a somewhat cathartic feeling, sense of well-being (after surviving something life threatening, knowing you are in the clear now) and the nausea fades away. I wonder if Cannabis products can help with the nausea? I hear CBD (and CBG esp.) helps with that. Another time I believe I tried making the tea but never got to try it. I still have a good chunk of the vine left here. Can use different plants, that's what makes it so interesting for me. This was at least 10 years back. Wanted to try it initially just as something to explore my mind with. I most certainly was in no place, prepared for any full blown experience with the concoction, so I guess it was merciful to me that I didn't go all the way in at the time? For therapeutic purposes (and spiritual) this is a promising medicine.

I do, however, grow San Pedro. Such a beautiful, life affirming cacti! I do not consume them, just grow. Giving back. Under the Sun they give off innumerable hues of greens and blues (with the Peruvian Torches esp, re blues). I buy every couple years cuttings and plant them in quality cacti soil I buy from a local nursery. Tallest ones I have are around 4' tall. Feel humbled around them. In the Summer I'll perform Qi-Gong near them out in the middle of the yard where they sit around the firepit (which we don't use). This plant has also many therapeutic uses if taken with care (no real way to o/d unless you take an extract and far too much of it vs the tea, which is the trad'l way).

I'll post up a couple interesting audiobooks and videos I have on this subject (therapeutic uses of entheogens). I'll post up some images of my cacti fam. as well. About to smoke this top shelf CBD flower, this strain is called Lifter. Blend with Orange Herijuana, small bud I have left. Cleaned my glass. Need to get more hemp wick to light my herb. Burned some June DG red Indo, KOG white Borneo and Mitra Genie (US) PRMD 8 and this hit near all the right circuits! Have a few strains I rarely use which I want to try over the coming days. Making an order with KOG and then a few vendors here (for "work" strains, faster/upper spec leaf). Have a few pages up (among my 40+ tabs I have opened, heh) I combed through the forums recently.

https://erowid.org/chemicals/ayahuasca/ayahuasca.shtml

https://erowid.org/plants/cacti/cacti.shtml

My source for cacti since mid 2000's. Good dude (and his dogs and animals.. he lives on a farm I guess, I guess it can be considered a SP plantation.) I've never had the T. Bridgesii strain but have been wanting to add it to my collection since I became aware of it. Unfortunately it is more rare and he hasn't been selling them since this Spring I believe. Now he won't have any for sale until later next year (2020). Has the highest percentage of alks I guess.

My source I noted above has been 'Cactus Kate' or 'Trichocereus Heaven'. I didn't realize he was selling what is said as "PC" (predominant cultivar) which I guess doesn't nec. have as much alks as non-pc. Oh well, as I said, I just like growing them.

https://trichocereus.com/sitemap.html

https://sanpedrocactus1.com/san_pedro_cactus.htm


Found another source (search on Reddit) will have to give a try when they re-stock their Bridgesii.

https://www.mallachtsplants.com/collections/cactus


Couple books I can rec'd (will be included in the Google Drive link I'm preparing. Some cool stuff, don't miss out!)

The Antipodes of the Mind: Charting the Phenomenology of the Ayahuasca Experience by Benny Shanon

https://maps.org/news-letters/v13n1/v13n1_47.pdf

I have this one in e-book format:

https://www.amazon.com/Hummingbirds-Jou ... 184694242X

One I need to obtain next:

https://www.amazon.com/Mescaline-Confes ... 1724908537

[chortle]

Useful channels on YT

New Thinking Allowed w/ Jeffrey Mishlove, guest Dr. Rick Strassman (author of DMT: The Spirit Molecule) conversation with https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tnTMC8YOkY

[brave777]

chortle thanks a lot, i ll look into all that, i did make a bee hive out of resin and shungite rocks and powder all around it, i saw you had a map of it. that pretty cool. I also drink water everyday from elite shungite stones. I re-fill it every 24 hour and put new well water inside. I am just happy you have some cool info i will be looking trough. You saved me time and got it all in one, thank you for putting your time into it.

[mivanqua]

Wow, chortle! Thanks for the amazing reading material! Also, I haven't crossed paths with you here, welcome to the forum. I always like people that bring something to the party, which, you DEFINITELY did. I'll be reading for weeks. We got some strange blue-green pills when I was a late-teenager that were labeled as mescaline, but upon further investigation years later, they were WAAAAAY too small to be any kind of active mescaline dose. That was my first ever trip and I can assure you it was something! I realized I was in love with a friend of mine and from then on, for 25 years, I retained that intense feeling for her and at one point around the turn of the century, we were working on a project together. and it almost came together. I'm glad it didn't though, in retrospect, because where do you go from there? Still a good friend and I think I finally got over the lovey-dove feelings somehow. Even if not the relationship I was looking for, we still love each other special which is practically impossible relationship wise for her, shes the definition of "introvert." Anyway. That's my "mescaline" experience. Off on an early morning tangent...now I'll be thinking about Robin all day and will likely meet her for lunch or something....

[creatus]

If weed becomes legal in the USA (aka pot revenue out-funds prison revenue) I think kratom would be the next shoe-in. Would that not be a beautiful world? Canna-kratom shops food and drink would have massive cultural ramifications... one can dream. Happy New Year. Here's to the 2020s and a quickly changing world.