Amber Veined Bali - Gimmick or Legit?

[Daniel]

Excerpt:

You might be asking yourself, how does one produce an Amber colored Vein for Mitragyna Speciosa Korth (Kratom). There is a special drying process that is used by the Indonesians in which a special kind of dry heat is implemented to the point of almost toasting the leaf, but not to the point of over drying (moisture content is about 5%). This leaves the vein a beautiful amber color, much like your yellow and gold counterparts, but with a richer color. It adds notes of a slightly more mellow aroma, somewhere in between a White and a Red.

So far, we’re the only vendor to carry this product, while there are many yellow and gold variations, there is none with an amber colored vein, such as this product.

Source: https://pdobotanicals.com/products/amber-veined-bali/

Can't say that I'm *not* tempted to buy it.... but financially, I just want to go for more of a "sure thing" which is somewhat ironic given the unpredictable nature of Kratom batches. Although, if you're reading this PDO, throw me a sample. Haha. I do have trouble distinguishing the drying process from other Yellow or Gold's.... but what do I know. =/

[RumRunner]

You’re tempted to buy 100 grams for $30? Maybe you should be asking if that’s legit.

[Daniel]

You’re tempted to buy 100 grams for $30? Maybe you should be asking if that’s legit.

Well, you must take into account the drying process. If it undergoes a special fermentation process as described, it seems perfectly reasonable.

EDIT: Also, let me be clear, I just heard of PDO Botanicals today. I've no affiliation with them. I'm just curious about this new exquisite process. After all, I did admit it could be a marketing gimmick in the title.

[acejestyr15]

You’re tempted to buy 100 grams for $30? Maybe you should be asking if that’s legit.

Well, you must take into account the drying process. If it undergoes a special fermentation process as described, it seems perfectly reasonable.

EDIT: Also, let me be clear, I just heard of PDO Botanicals today. I've no affiliation with them. I'm just curious about this new exquisite process. After all, I did admit it could be a marketing gimmick in the title.

What does the drying process have to do with the atrocious price point?!

[beathappening]

Sounds like a gimmick. Even if it was somehow true, there's no way to verify it. I don't even think there's any reason to think a "super secret special" drying method would be any better than other strains. On top of that, them saying they're the only vendor to have it is really suspect. And it's $30 for a 100? Not only is it price gouging, but they're lying in the process. Highway robbery.

[Daniel]

You’re tempted to buy 100 grams for $30? Maybe you should be asking if that’s legit.

Well, you must take into account the drying process. If it undergoes a special fermentation process as described, it seems perfectly reasonable.

EDIT: Also, let me be clear, I just heard of PDO Botanicals today. I've no affiliation with them. I'm just curious about this new exquisite process. After all, I did admit it could be a marketing gimmick in the title.

What does the drying process have to do with the atrocious price point?!

I have no idea. That's what I'm trying to figure out. Kratom is a complex plant filled with a multitude of organic alkaloids. I'm just curious about the process and if it's truly one of a kind. I'm not really concerned with the price, nor am I encouraging anyone to buy it.

[Daniel]

Sounds like a gimmick. Even if it was somehow true, there's no way to verify it. I don't even think there's any reason to think a "super secret special" drying method would be any better than other strains. On top of that, them saying they're the only vendor to have it is really suspect. And it's $30 for a 100? Highway robbery.

Yeah, that sounds about right. I also heard for the first time about "nano" Kratom as well. Is that a gimmick too? I would imagine that actually allows more plant material to gather into tbsp, but I don't know.

[acejestyr15]

Never heard of such a thing and realistically there is no special process or special leaf that is worth $30 for 100g. There is so much incredibly high quality leaf going around with the popular vendors and newer small batch sellers, some at less than half the price, that I couldn't be convinced to look elsewhere. That's how I see it, and I'm sure many of not most others would as well....

And yeah nano strains are just a much finer grind than your typical strains we are used to.

[beathappening]

I've only just heard about nano. I don't know what it is but I'm already leaning gimmick. I'll reserve judgment but I just think there's only so much you can do to a leaf, and kratom already has a history of using silly names to market it.

[Daniel]

Never heard of such a thing and realistically there is no special process or special leaf that is worth $30 for 100g. There is so much incredibly high quality leaf going around with the popular vendors and newer small batch sellers, some at less than half the price, that I couldn't be convinced to look elsewhere. That's how I see it, and I'm sure many of not most others would as well....

Have you not perused mmmspeciosa and then looked at Canopy? Am I the only one who has encountered high prices? Nonetheless, the price point is moot. I'm more curious if some new fermentation process was developed.

And yeah nano strains are just a much finer grind than your typical strains we are used to.

Yeah, more plant material into tbsp is a win.

[beathappening]

And yeah nano strains are just a much finer grind than your typical strains we are used to.

That brings to mind the old joke "what weighs more, a pound of lead or a pound of feathers?"
The grind isn't going to turn less into more.

[Daniel]

I've only just heard about nano. I don't know what it is but I'm already leaning gimmick. I'll reserve judgment but I just think there's only so much you can do to a leaf, and kratom already has a history of using silly names to market it.

Benni has it and I'm excited to try it, the nano grind that is. I'm very interested in all this, but it seems the price drove some of you mad. Mods, feel free to delete thread. I wasn't even considering the price when I posted thread. Thank you all for the replies.

[beathappening]

Yeah, more plant material into tbsp is a win.

Can you explain why?

[Daniel]

And yeah nano strains are just a much finer grind than your typical strains we are used to.

That brings to mind the old joke "what weighs more, a pound of lead or a pound of feathers?"
The grind isn't going to turn less into more.

Heheh. Well, you can fit more material/precious alkaloids onto the serving, whether its 1/4th TSP or 1/2 TBSP and that means more alkaloids total in a package. For example, what if they did not remove Stem and Vein from our Kratom? :O

[beathappening]

You'll just be taking more weight. That's why you use a scale and not spoons.

[Daniel]

You'll just be taking more weight. That's why you use a scale and not spoons.

Yeah, I don't use a scale. Why do you use a scale?

[beathappening]

So I know how much I'm taking. It doesn't matter how much you can fit into a spoon, 3 grams or 5 or 10. You go by weight. You think grinding up the same leaf different ways is going to produce a different amount of product?

[Daniel]

So I know how much I'm taking. It doesn't matter how much you can fit into a spoon, 3 grams or 5 or 10. You go by weight. You think grinding up the same leaf different ways is going to produce a different amount of product?

Fair enough. I've never used a scale. No, I don't think grinding up a product different ways will change its substance. However, in my case, the more densely packed, the more I can fit on a measuring spoon.

Also, I realize we are getting way off topic. It's been nice chatting with you.

[beathappening]

What is the advantage of being able to fit more into a spoon? Why not just use a bigger spoon?

[acejestyr15]

I've only just heard about nano. I don't know what it is but I'm already leaning gimmick. I'll reserve judgment but I just think there's only so much you can do to a leaf, and kratom already has a history of using silly names to market it.

Benni has it and I'm excited to try it, the nano grind that is. I'm very interested in all this, but it seems the price drove some of you mad. Mods, feel free to delete thread. I wasn't even considering the price when I posted thread. Thank you all for the replies.

I am one of the mods here actually Daniel lol. And there is no reason we need to take the thread down.... Just explaining why it is that the price will drive most ppl away off the bat that's all.

And we use scales to ensure that our dosage/serving size is consistent each time.... 1 for tolerance sake, 2 to conserve leaf, 3 to keep track of a gram per day count as it makes it easy to compare reviews with other kratomites. Highly recommend you grab a cheap digital scale that uses AAA batteries from Amazon or something. It will def make Kratom usage better for you all around I promise. You may think you're taking the same amount give or take each time and learn you have been taking a rather large range of dose sizes.... Happened to me a couple years or so ago when I first started using Kratom daily.

[Daniel]

What is the advantage of being able to fit more into a spoon? Why not just use a bigger spoon?

Hehe. Are you trolling me? Anyway, 10 years ago when crushed leaf was popular, many ground it down to fit it on a spoon t make it more practical for a toss n' wash. That is all.

[Daniel]

I am one of the mods here actually Daniel lol. And there is no reason we need to take the thread down.... Just explaining why it is that the price will drive most ppl away off the bat that's all.

And we use scales to ensure that our dosage/serving size is consistent each time.... 1 for tolerance sake, 2 to conserve leaf, 3 to keep track of a gram per day count as it makes it easy to compare reviews with other kratomites. Highly recommend you grab a cheap digital scale that uses AAA batteries from Amazon or something. It will def make Kratom usage better for you all around I promise. You may think you're taking the same amount give or take each time and learn you have been taking a rather large range of dose sizes.... Happened to me a couple years or so ago when I first started using Kratom daily.

Well, I'm a chronic user. I don't use everyday. In fact, yesterday was the first time I've burned any Kratom in about 6 months. However, I will heed your advice as a wise elder of the community, and at the very least look into it. For me, my usage is just so sporadic and chronic, I'm happy to measure by a measuring spoon. (for now)

[beathappening]

Nevermind. I don't think you understand but it's ok. I guess the marketing gimmicks do work on some people. Google "chronic definition" if you get a chance.

[Daniel]

Nevermind. I don't think you understand but it's ok. I guess the marketing gimmicks do work on some people. Google "chronic definition" if you get a chance.

Heh. Perhaps I misspoke. I'm human and deeply flawed. I've been using Kratom on and off for severe anxiety and depression, especially social anxiety. When I said "chronic" -- I meant "on and off" over the past ten years and should have said occassional user, or something. Anyway, thanks.

[Celestial-Oceanic]

It's a gimmick. Anything on PDO's site is a gimmick and a rip off. He's preying on people who get their kratom knowledge (or lack thereof) from ILK.

[Greyfeather]

Vendors says:

"You might be asking yourself...".

'Nuff said.

[herbalhippie]

Daniel, it's a very good idea to use a scale. Depending on the powder/batch/vendor there can be a big difference in how much is in a teaspoon.

[beathappening]

Its a gimmick (nano) but it could still be good kratom. As long as it's priced the same as any other plain leaf. If it's more expensive than that's deceptive, I hope respected vendors like benni and Liza aren't going to pay/charge more for it. I haven't seen it up on any sites for sale yet.

BTW I have some magenta vein maeng da for sale it's $35 for 112 grams and no one has it but me, it's dried using a brand new process at a secret Indonesian dry cleaners, pm me

[Celestial-Oceanic]

Its a gimmick (nano) but it could still be good kratom. As long as it's priced the same as any other plain leaf. If it's more expensive than that's deceptive, I hope respected vendors like benni and Liza aren't going to pay/charge more for it. I haven't seen it up on any sites for sale yet.

BTW I have some magenta vein maeng da for sale it's $35 for 112 grams and no one has it but me, it's dried using a brand new process at a secret Indonesian dry cleaners, pm me

Nano powder is going for the same price. It's just a super fine grind, very fluffy. I've tried Benni's and have some from another vendor in route. It's not something people need to freak out about, if the leafs good, it's good. The "nano grind" isn't going to make mediocre leaf any better. You do need a scale however, if you use a spoon you will take too much.

[Ezriderx2x]

I have seen nano In a few different cases. One being Bennie's Green Goddess,which he states has a "nano grind.". Very fine grind like baby powder. The leaf itself was very good, though more difficult to swallow. I don't think the grind has anything to do with the effects, but does have more to do with the onset time. In this case the onset was very quick ~15 minutes.

The other nano I have tried was a "strain" name or phenotype. White Nano, Green Nano, etc. No claims were made, it was just used as another BS name made by a vendor.

For OP, Amber veined would be a gimmick as most replied. Vendors, farmers and suppliers still have a market full of customers that are naive to the process in which Kratom is made. They will and do say anything to pull in more sales. It's possible their is a unique drying process for this, but unlikely.

[Daniel]

Daniel, it's a very good idea to use a scale. Depending on the powder/batch/vendor there can be a big difference in how much is in a teaspoon.

Thank you. I do agree with the old Kratom adage "less is more". I always start small, if that's what you're getting it. (at least 1/4th tsp, sometimes 1/8th) Nonetheless, if a scale is what you a recommend, a scale it what I'll get.

and yeah, after spending more time at PDO, it seems every product is some type of new process they invented. Hey, at least it made for some entertaining reading! Embarrassed that I posted the topic!

[beathappening]

Embarrassed that I posted the topic!

Don't be, we all have to start somewhere. That's what this forum is for! And maybe someone else that's new will see this thread and gain some benefit from it.

[Daniel]

Embarrassed that I posted the topic!

Don't be, we all have to start somewhere. That's what this forum is for! And maybe someone else that's new will see this thread and gain some benefit from it.

Aw, thanks! I was tempted to let this thread die, but I wanted to acknowledge the informative recommendations as well as, if I spent a little more time reading PDO, I would have noticed the site filled with bogus claims. Much love!

[IndelibleDotInk]

You're right about the grind - a finer grind will have more surface area and require less processing in your gut, letting it hit you faster and harder.

[beathappening]

You're right about the grind - a finer grind will have more surface area and require less processing in your gut, letting it hit you faster and harder.

The surface area doesn't matter, the volume/weight does.

The difference between "nano" and the regular fine flour grind that most people are used to would be so insignificant, a person wouldn't be able to tell a difference in effects. It's laughable to think about something so minute having something to do with a substance that you need a relatively large volume to cross the dose threshold. That's like literally splitting hairs. Can you tell a difference between the fine flour grind and the more coarse grind? I personally can't, at all, in effects.

[IndelibleDotInk]

Yes, the volume and weight and composition of kratom matter, but so does the grind. The finer kratom will hit faster because it is 'predigested.' As to how much faster, I don't know, but by discounting the importance of surface area in this situation is a mistake. Think about tablets you need to chew before eating, or time delayed medicines. I would not say nano is just hype, it's a next step in kratom efficiency. A tiny step, but it's cool, like the improvements hypermillers do to cars.

We got really off topic... get a scale, then you can track that important weight.

[Daniel]

Yes, the volume and weight and composition of kratom matter, but so does the grind. The finer kratom will hit faster because it is 'predigested.' As to how much faster, I don't know, but by discounting the importance of surface area in this situation is a mistake. Think about tablets you need to chew before eating, or time delayed medicines. I would not say nano is just hype, it's a next step in kratom efficiency. A tiny step, but it's cool, like the improvements hypermillers do to cars.

We got really off topic... get a scale, then you can track that important weight.

Have you noticed a vast difference in a measure of material weight from Vendor A to another from Vendor B?(ie, Vendor A 1TSP 3.2 grams, Vendor B TSP 4.86 grams) Also, how much does does a TSP of finely milled kratom weight versus a nano TSP? I'm very curious about this 'nano-grind'.

As I've said above, In my 10+ years of Kratom use I've never used a scale even though I realize weight may vary, I've always seen it as negligible. It is interesting because I do like to be meticulous, and the first five years I would take notes on what I've had to eat, if I took a B Vitamin, on an full, mostly full, emtpy stomach, or hungry stomach, et al... So, for whatever reason it never struck me as important. For me, the difference had to to do from batch to batch or different strain. Of course, in hindsight, it would be have been great to know 2 Grams of Speciosa Specialists Super Green Malay really hit the spot, so to speak. Ah well, live, learn, grow and move foward.

Oh, and FWIW, I lost all 5 years of notes. Did not back up to the cloud. HD Died.

[beathappening]

A tiny step, so small, so as to be unnoticeable. Maybe that's why it's called nano, because the difference is nano. You're talking down to the atoms. And this is kratom which you need grams at a time. The surface area difference between a flour grind and whatever nano grind really is? I don't think I can be convinced that it makes any real difference. How much faster would it hit you, 10 seconds? Is that really even worth calling attention to? Do we need to split open an a molecule to make kratom better? I guess there really is something to be said about the users that care about that. This is the definition of a gimmick. There are so many other variables that would affect how kratom works in your body that would have more of a difference in noticeable effects.

As far as time released medications...they use fillers and binders to make it release slower. See: ER/XR meds. It's artificially done.

As far as the difference in vendors/teaspoons, that is the exact reason teaspoons are an inaccurate measure of kratom. The dose is going to weigh different depending on how tightly packed it is. A nano grind isn't going to result in a change of mass/volume, which a scale sorts out.

[RumRunner]

I worry that gimmicks (or at least degrees of gimmicks) are all around us in this community. I cringe when I read about phenotypes, nano strains and amber colors. The pressure on vendors to somehow separate themselves from the pack must be intense. But it’s nothing new. Anyone remember Gaia’s 9 in 1 purple? The fact is that hype and gimmicks work and aren’t going anywhere any time soon.