Worried about AKA/KCPA?

[Seacookie]

So, I'm sure many of you also get the plethora of emails from the American Kratom Association as well. I've noticed recently each state/city that brings forth legislation to ban kratom, after hearing testimonials, usually goes against a full ban but instead adopts measures brought forth in the KCPA(i.e. just happened in Mississippi)On the surface of course seems like a win to the kratom consumer, but underneath is it basically creating a monopoly on kratom in a sense, and going to make it harder for our favorite small batch vendors to compete with the big headshop type vendors if it essentially passes nation wide? Basically how marijuana legalization is killing the small mom/pop farms in California because they cant afford all the ridiculous testing and packaging requirements the govt has imposed. I dunno may just be the cannabis working its conspiratorial ways on me, but what is your take on it?

[Seacookie]

What the Kratom Consumer Protection Act is:

Defines Kratom
• Requires Kratom vendors, creators, and sellers to properly label products with specific labeling requirements
• Prohibits sale of certain Kratom products altogether
• Creates specific penalties for violations of these rules
• Requires registration for Kratom production
• Requires that the Department of Agriculture and Food set up standards and enforces them on Kratom production and sale

The last part is what really gets me. I've just always been weary of big government dabbling around and getting involved. We here in the DoubleM community have a great self policing in a way. Once a vendor starts pushing out bunk products we spread our reviews diligently so we can avoid and on to the next one. Obviously it's working well so far. Then the labeling sounds like a page right outta the legal weed book. Like i said just some purely cannabis + 24k bali gold from TFH inspired thoughts

[CatfatherB]

I live in Tennessee and there is currently no plan to make kratom illegal (again)...I'd hate to see the kcpa pass here cuz we already have the restrictions...21 and over and no extracts.

As for the the people in the States where kratom is being considered for ban...i really feel for them cause passing KCPA may be the only thing they can do to keep it legal...if enough states pass it, it'll just cause a lot of great vendors to shut down

[Seacookie]

As for the the people in the States where kratom is being considered for ban...i really feel for them cause passing KCPA may be the only thing they can do to keep it legal...if enough states pass it, it'll just cause a lot of great vendors to shut down

Yeah, that's basically what I was thinking and hope that day never comes! I haven't heard anything about kratom legislation here in Florida ,THANKFULLY , but would definitely be a sad day for me and so many others. Seems the FDA is backing down recently only for this KCPA to come in sweeping the nation.

[CatfatherB]

As for the the people in the States where kratom is being considered for ban...i really feel for them cause passing KCPA may be the only thing they can do to keep it legal...if enough states pass it, it'll just cause a lot of great vendors to shut down

Yeah, that's basically what I was thinking and hope that day never comes! I haven't heard anything about kratom legislation here in Florida ,THANKFULLY , but would definitely be a sad day for me and so many others. Seems the FDA is backing down recently only for this KCPA to come in sweeping the nation.

Don't ever think those asshats (FDA) will back down...not for a second, it's from their misinformation, the reason all these states everywhere are even considering a ban! The fight continues.....

[Bestboy143]

I'm ok with the KCPA in theory... the practice can be a different story of course, but I don't think it will be; I'm sure the vendors would have a better idea. My main concern is monitoring and testing for harmful pathogens. I've gotten pretty sick a few times before. A lot of vendors on here are very vigilant, but there are so many out there.

As for reviews leading the way and keeping each other informed, while it's great for those of us on DoubleM, we make up a tiny percentage of kratom users. All we need are salmonella and e. coli stories circulating in the news, or any RC "enhanced" leaf getting around to damage kratom's image. Just my two cents.

[mivanqua]

He's hopping right now, but I'm really interested to hear gumby's take on KCPA. Fused Flora as well. Those guys are IN the game, not just consumers. Gumby particularly because he usually has a little inside scuttlebutt, if you will. As for me, a consumer, it makes me nervous. It's a good way for the government to get their grimy little fingers into the TAXES side of all of this, which, very likely that's what its REALLY all about. Their piece of the pie, which they absolutely DO NOT deserve. They don't give two shits about us OR our safety. Believe that! More will come to light over time and the effects will be a fair amount of time coming, but even if I have to use Kraken Kratom or something, it beats a ban by a giant margin. We can all get used to it, right? At any rate, it will be much easier to get used to than an outright ban.

[Greyfeather]

I'm ok with the KCPA in theory... the practice can be a different story of course, but I don't think it will be; I'm sure the vendors would have a better idea. My main concern is monitoring and testing for harmful pathogens. I've gotten pretty sick a few times before. A lot of vendors on here are very vigilant, but there are so many out there.

As for reviews leading the way and keeping each other informed, while it's great for those of us on DoubleM, we make up a tiny percentage of kratom users. All we need are salmonella and e. coli stories circulating in the news, or any RC "enhanced" leaf getting around to damage kratom's image. Just my two cents.

May I ask which vendors made you sick?

We all seek certain vendors for our own reasons: We are newbies and don't know where to go. Some dude said "buy there." We saw one of a hundred online vendors and believed in the Magic. Or everyone is looking for a freakin' deal in our shitty economy so "I bought a kilo for $50."

When it comes to the KCPA and the AKA - theory or no (haha) - they are NOT going to look out for your best interest any more than you have.

By which I mean to say that, if you want GOOD (fire!) kratom and you DON'T want to get sick, then be a savvier shopper. Your saying that you have bought a lot of kratom from a lot of "vendors" means absolutely NOTHING concerning its safety. And asking an agency to protect you from your own bad decisions is making me laugh out loud.

[Feeltheburna13]

Greyfeather nailed it.

[mivanqua]

"The MAGIC..." HAHA! Nailed it for sure.

[BallzDeep9]

On the surface of course seems like a win to the kratom consumer, but underneath is it basically creating a monopoly on kratom in a sense, and going to make it harder for our favorite small batch vendors to compete with the big headshop type vendors if it essentially passes nation wide? Basically how marijuana legalization is killing the small mom/pop farms in California because they cant afford all the ridiculous testing and packaging requirements the govt has imposed.

Bingo. AKA and their KCPA, is a shameless Power Grab, with the apparent goal of driving OUT all small-batch vendors.. and "cornering the market" for Big Money retailers, head-shop folks and the big Florida drug labs. All those guys have lots of... Money. They all donate big bucks $ to AKA.

I mean... It's up to everybody. Either you guys 1- Realize what's happening, 2- Get involved, start posting on Facebook and online, 3- Call and Write your local State government, politicians, legislators.. and your State next door. Either you get off your ass... start doing that, OR kratom "As we know it" will effectively get BANNED, state by state, nationwide. Probably by next year.

Here's the deal. KCPA is great! But ONLY, As an alternative to any Red State move to BAN kratom. Red states.. you know, goober states. Arkansas. Alabama. Mississippi, Indiana. Ohio and West Virginia. OK but.. kratom IS banned in Vermont, a liberal state you say? Yes but.. they are already considering reversing the ban. Bottom Line, Kratom should NOT and will not, get banned in any Legal Weed state... Blue States. But yeah, in Red states where you do Prison Time for 1 pot plant? KCPA is fine. Better than allowing the Republicans to ban kratom.

Thank You for starting this. I've spent a lot of time, personally, fighting this KCPA thing in Oregon and now Idaho. Why? 1 Blue and 1 Red state. Both have in common... There is NO proposal to Ban kratom, in either of those states!! KCPA is totally un-necessary. OK then, how and why is this happening?

Important to understand it's a Lobbying move by the AKA.. They have a bunch of smart, big money, Attorneys going around to certain states (AKA has a List of states they are targeting in 2020!) and.. they approach legislators, and they float the idea of KCPA. That's called Lobbying - it's done by corporations and basically "money" interests all the time. Unless we get Bernie Sanders elected... (not likely) then, Lobbying will continue. Please JOIN ME, call and write to STOP the KCPA - in Idaho this week!!

[kmu777]

On the surface of course seems like a win to the kratom consumer, but underneath is it basically creating a monopoly on kratom in a sense, and going to make it harder for our favorite small batch vendors to compete with the big headshop type vendors if it essentially passes nation wide? Basically how marijuana legalization is killing the small mom/pop farms in California because they cant afford all the ridiculous testing and packaging requirements the govt has imposed.

Bingo. AKA and their KCPA, is a shameless Power Grab, with the apparent goal of driving OUT all small-batch vendors.. and "cornering the market" for Big Money retailers, head-shop folks and the big Florida drug labs. All those guys have lots of... Money. They all donate big bucks $ to AKA.

I mean... It's up to everybody. Either you guys 1- Realize what's happening, 2- Get involved, start posting on Facebook and online, 3- Call and Write your local State government, politicians, legislators.. and your State next door. Either you get off your ass... start doing that, OR kratom "As we know it" will effectively get BANNED, state by state, nationwide. Probably by next year.

Here's the deal. KCPA is great! But ONLY, As an alternative to any Red State move to BAN kratom. Red states.. you know, goober states. Arkansas. Alabama. Mississippi, Indiana. Ohio and West Virginia. OK but.. kratom IS banned in Vermont, a liberal state you say? Yes but.. they are already considering reversing the ban. Bottom Line, Kratom should NOT and will not, get banned in any Legal Weed state... Blue States. But yeah, in Red states where you do Prison Time for 1 pot plant? KCPA is fine. Better than allowing the Republicans to ban kratom.

Thank You for starting this. I've spent a lot of time, personally, fighting this KCPA thing in Oregon and now Idaho. Why? 1 Blue and 1 Red state. Both have in common... There is NO proposal to Ban kratom, in either of those states!! KCPA is totally un-necessary. OK then, how and why is this happening?

Important to understand it's a Lobbying move by the AKA.. They have a bunch of smart, big money, Attorneys going around to certain states (AKA has a List of states they are targeting in 2020!) and.. they approach legislators, and they float the idea of KCPA. That's called Lobbying - it's done by corporations and basically "money" interests all the time. Unless we get Bernie Sanders elected... (not likely) then, Lobbying will continue. Please JOIN ME, call and write to STOP the KCPA - in Idaho this week!!

Ballz, I appreciate your insight here. I live in Texas, a decidedly RED state. I'm relatively new to Kratom, and I gotta be honest, I'm a bit worried (probably more paranoid) - I feel like it's just a matter of time before we hear about a proposed "ban" in this state. Do you have any other recommendations on how to advocate for Kratom? Earlier this year, I made a donation to the AKA...was this misguided? I'll be more than happy to write any officials/senator, etc. but it feels like there's gotta be a way to take more action. My girlfriend lives in our neighboring state, Arkansas, where there is a total ban. I'd hate to see Texas go that route.

[jabro70]

Maybe I’m completely misguided, but I firmly believe that if it were not for the AKA, Kratom would have been made a schedule 1 substance by the Federal Government back in 2016. For that, I at least owe them my gratitude.

[acejestyr15]

Maybe I’m completely misguided, but I firmly believe that if it were not for the AKA, Kratom would have been made a schedule 1 substance by the Federal Government back in 2016. For that, I at least owe them my gratitude.

Well, yes of course, I am sure everyone feels the same way about that part!! But, it seems that since that situation the AKA has possibly shifted priorities and or changed their perspective on how to move forward with their mission.....but who know for sure, right?!

[Bestboy143]

I'm ok with the KCPA in theory... the practice can be a different story of course, but I don't think it will be; I'm sure the vendors would have a better idea. My main concern is monitoring and testing for harmful pathogens. I've gotten pretty sick a few times before. A lot of vendors on here are very vigilant, but there are so many out there.

As for reviews leading the way and keeping each other informed, while it's great for those of us on DoubleM, we make up a tiny percentage of kratom users. All we need are salmonella and e. coli stories circulating in the news, or any RC "enhanced" leaf getting around to damage kratom's image. Just my two cents.

May I ask which vendors made you sick?

We all seek certain vendors for our own reasons: We are newbies and don't know where to go. Some dude said "buy there." We saw one of a hundred online vendors and believed in the Magic. Or everyone is looking for a freakin' deal in our shitty economy so "I bought a kilo for $50."

When it comes to the KCPA and the AKA - theory or no (haha) - they are NOT going to look out for your best interest any more than you have.

By which I mean to say that, if you want GOOD (fire!) kratom and you DON'T want to get sick, then be a savvier shopper. Your saying that you have bought a lot of kratom from a lot of "vendors" means absolutely NOTHING concerning its safety. And asking an agency to protect you from your own bad decisions is making me laugh out loud.

Makes you laugh out loud? What's with the arrogance here? Did you read anything I wrote? People getting sick looks bad for kratom and the media and FDA will jump on that every chance they get. Half of their argument is heavy metals and salmonella already. You don't have to be a master strategist to figure out the less they have to go cite, the worse their argument is.

If you read what I wrote, we make up a small percentage of kratom users. Most of the people out there are buying 20 dollar ounces and have no information about the vendor. I haven't used shit vendors in years. The 2 times in the last year I got sick was from 2 great vendors supported on this website. No it wasn't because i ate sushi. No it wasn't because I redosed too soon. It wasn't the flu. It was severe stomach pain for days, and one time for 2 weeks that was 100 percent from the kratom.

I don't say their names because i'm not trying to hurt anyone's business, when they are good honest people doing the right thing, and I still order from them regularly. Shit happens. They are great vendors and most of their stuff has been great. My point is, if you read what I wrote, there are plenty of shady vendors out there that can get the public sick and not think twice about it. That looks terrible for kratom.

Regulations is not always bad. The AKA seems to think so too. The idea of not wanting standards for something you ingest regularly is retarded.

[acejestyr15]

I'm ok with the KCPA in theory... the practice can be a different story of course, but I don't think it will be; I'm sure the vendors would have a better idea. My main concern is monitoring and testing for harmful pathogens. I've gotten pretty sick a few times before. A lot of vendors on here are very vigilant, but there are so many out there.

As for reviews leading the way and keeping each other informed, while it's great for those of us on DoubleM, we make up a tiny percentage of kratom users. All we need are salmonella and e. coli stories circulating in the news, or any RC "enhanced" leaf getting around to damage kratom's image. Just my two cents.

May I ask which vendors made you sick?

We all seek certain vendors for our own reasons: We are newbies and don't know where to go. Some dude said "buy there." We saw one of a hundred online vendors and believed in the Magic. Or everyone is looking for a freakin' deal in our shitty economy so "I bought a kilo for $50."

When it comes to the KCPA and the AKA - theory or no (haha) - they are NOT going to look out for your best interest any more than you have.

By which I mean to say that, if you want GOOD (fire!) kratom and you DON'T want to get sick, then be a savvier shopper. Your saying that you have bought a lot of kratom from a lot of "vendors" means absolutely NOTHING concerning its safety. And asking an agency to protect you from your own bad decisions is making me laugh out loud.

Makes you laugh out loud? What's with the arrogance here? Did you read anything I wrote? People getting sick looks bad for kratom and the media and FDA will jump on that every chance they get. Half of their argument is heavy metals and salmonella already. You don't have to be a master strategist to figure out the less they have to go cite, the worse their argument is.

If you read what I wrote, we make up a small percentage of kratom users. Most of the people out there are buying 20 dollar ounces and have no information about the vendor. I haven't used shit vendors in years. The 2 times in the last year I got sick was from 2 great vendors supported on this website. No it wasn't because i ate sushi. No it wasn't because I redosed too soon. It wasn't the flu. It was severe stomach pain for days, and one time for 2 weeks that was 100 percent from the kratom.

I don't say their names because i'm not trying to hurt anyone's business, when they are good honest people doing the right thing, and I still order from them regularly. Shit happens. They are great vendors and most of their stuff has been great. My point is, if you read what I wrote, there are plenty of shady vendors out there that can get the public sick and not think twice about it. That looks terrible for kratom.

Regulations is not always bad. The AKA seems to think so too. The idea of not wanting standards for something you ingest regularly is retarded.

For 1.... We have rules against name calling and personal attacks so please keep it civil!!!

And for 2.... How is it "retarded" that people have a different opinion than you?! Or against prices getting jacked up who knows how much all for nothing more than to line government official pockets further?!?! You can go ahead and have your opinion just the same as myself and everyone else here being entitled to theirs. No one likes having the opposition's views rammed down their throats, so just take it easy man.

[mivanqua]

Why all the hate and bullshit, guys? See. I was worried about this happening. Remember when everything was copacetic and everyone just got along and shared opinions and there was no such thing as a locked post other than trading post? Ahhhhh....those were the days....Now its gotten substantially bigger and it's not like a group of friends hanging out in the virtual living room anymore. And what did Ballz mean by "my sub?" Did he accidentally spill some beans? Seems that way. Doesn't it?

[CatfatherB]

Why all the ha te and bullshit, guys? See. I was worried about this happening. Remember when everything was copacetic and everyone just got along and shared opinions and there was no such thing as a locked post other than trading post? Ahhhhh....those were the days....Now its gotten substantially bigger and it's not like a group of friends hanging out in the virtual living room anymore. And what did Ballz mean by "my sub?" Did he accidentally spill some beans? Seems that way. Doesn't it?

I think Ballz was referring to his kratom vendor sub reddit back in the day? Is that what you were referring to? From the 7ohm thread?
The thing about arguing here is what keeps this place real...if I went to any forum and everyone was cheery and happy all the time...id be waiting for the sales pitch or punch line, if you will. We come from all different walks of life and have different opinions on things...I'm a "goober" from a red state but in my heart know if someone I knew here called me that..they've got my best interest at heart, at times we get overheated and need to be separated...just like at the workplace or at school and sometimes we just just stay away from each other till time passes...

Just my thoughts....

[mivanqua]

I agree I guess. Ballz had a vendor sub? Interesting. Didn't know that. I just dislike tension as a rule, especially here. Everything you said is true. We are all different people with different backgrounds, but that 7ohm thread was pretty crazy. Ballz needs to be reeled in a little bit if he can't come up with some proof. Steve is absolutely right. Accusation without proof IS slander. Give me some proof. I'll listen. Until then it's all just words. Again, I don't have a problem with Ballz, i was just pretty astounded to read that discourse between them. And Steve has never been anything but nice to me as well. It was just...uncharacteristic of this place. That's all. I mean, ballz is always gruff and abrasive and I'm used to it, but damn! Cough up proof. It's only fair.

[acejestyr15]

I agree I guess. Ballz had a vendor sub? Interesting. Didn't know that. I just dislike tension as a rule, especially here. Everything you said is true. We are all different people with different backgrounds, but that 7ohm thread was pretty crazy. Ballz needs to be reeled in a little bit if he can't come up with some proof. Steve is absolutely right. Accusation without proof IS slander. Give me some proof. I'll listen. Until then it's all just words. Again, I don't have a problem with Ballz, i was just pretty astounded to read that discourse between them. And Steve has never been anything but nice to me as well. It was just...uncharacteristic of this place. That's all. I mean, ballz is always gruff and abrasive and I'm used to it, but damn! Cough up proof. It's only fair.

At the same time Steve/7ohm as a vendor should be able to defend himself and present his case without stooping to such a low level and saying some of the shit that he said too.... In my opinion that's the exact type of behavior from a vendor that will keep me from ever sending business their way!!! But, that's just how I view things...Not saying ballz was right or his behavior was okay. Everyone involved was at very least partially in the wrong I'd say.

[BallzDeep9]

Maybe I’m completely misguided, but I firmly believe that if it were not for the AKA, Kratom would have been made a schedule 1 substance by the Federal Government back in 2016. For that, I at least owe them my gratitude.

Well, yes of course, I am sure everyone feels the same way about that part!! But, it seems that since that situation the AKA has possibly shifted priorities and or changed their perspective on how to move forward with their mission.....but who know for sure, right?!

Exactly right, Ace.. and Jabro70 is correct as well - I dashed off that post yesterday & forgot to add, Thanks to AKA for all their work on Federal Law: DEA and FDA.. all things Federal. All that stuff going back to 2016. I think everyone understands, we're very grateful to AKA, and huge $ were donated.

But NOW.. things have changed. Right? Things do change over time? Or do we assume everything's the SAME as it was in 2017 - No of course not. Times have changed. Many NOW believe.. the threat of DEA scheduling kratom, a Federal Ban on kratom - is over. That's over and done with? Has anyone heard anything from DEA in... oh, the past 2 years??

Alright so "Moving On" what is AKA doing with all that money? Well, they've got a PLAN.. They've hired attorneys or lobbyists, who are going state by state, pushing a VERY harsh and un-necessary Regulation of kratom which ( IF you READ the proposed KCPA? ) will have the effect of wiping out online vendors in the USA. JMHO Just My Humble Opinion from reading it, has anyone else read it, can anyone read, is anyone still on Reddit lol

I mean the KCPA is pure bullshit. It requires vendors to PAY high fees for Registration, to each State, and even at the County level? What's the proposed FEE $1000 - in some states? but $350 in the State of Idaho? And then, a County in Michigan has their own KCPA which requires $400 FEE paid to that County in Michigan? I'm just going off memory there. Yes their KCPA has been proposed at the County level.. This is Madness.

That's ONLY for starters. Why should Kratom vendors be "Registered" at the State and County level, when... Kava, Moringa, Ginseng, and 100's of other herbs and botanical products are sold freely in stores and online? WHY? because the head-shop Kratom vendors have fooled the public into paying $20 per serving, for 1 SHOT of a silly Mitragynine extract / O.P.M.S or MMK45 - for example.. I've seen them standing in line, paying $20 per shot. Are people really that goddamn stupid?

I guess so. On Reddit recently, a State Law came up for discussion.. some Eastern state (MD, NJ, or Delaware maybe?) and several people thought we should Call and Write the United States Senator's office - hello? The U.S. Senate has nothing to do - with State Law. So... I'm about ready to give up... I see on Reddit, bubs is happily promoting the KCPA bullshit in Idaho, dozens of folks blindly posting their Support.

[MikeEdoessomething]

Maybe I’m completely misguided, but I firmly believe that if it were not for the AKA, Kratom would have been made a schedule 1 substance by the Federal Government back in 2016. For that, I at least owe them my gratitude.

Well, yes of course, I am sure everyone feels the same way about that part!! But, it seems that since that situation the AKA has possibly shifted priorities and or changed their perspective on how to move forward with their mission.....but who know for sure, right?!

Agree with both of you. I def believe the AKA has been key in helping keep kratom legal, and they still are. They do fantastic work. But absolutely agree with ace that their mission appears to have shifted.

What I find concerning is how the AKA is constantly stating in their emails and in the public hearings that states need the KCPA because of adulterated kratom. I'm going off of memory so I may be wrong, but the AKA often states kratom need to be regulated so other substances (like other opoids or even fentanyl) can not be mixed in with the Kratom. Besides the "Kypton" incident in Europe several years ago, has there been any confirmed problems of kratom being mixed with other dangerous substances, like the AKA constantly implies is happening/is a problem in the industry? I know there has been issues with bad kratom that has gotten people real sick and had salmonella, but any instances of kratom being spiked/mixed with harder drugs? Even with the KCPA these things could still occur (as adulteration occurs in other industries despite regulation). I am for regulation, but it just seems the AKA is pushing an idea that a lot of kratom on the market is being adulterated, and in my view looks to be a narrative that would allow a select group to control the market. I agree with regulations on age and regulations like the supplement industry. But def don't agree with having an "approved vendors list" that would be only vendors able to sell kratom (I know its different for each state). Look at the AKA approved vendors, some of them are some of the shadiest vendors in my opinion. Not the best representation, but again just my opinion.

The perception I get from the AKA public emails and when Mr. Haddow speaks is that there is a serious threat of the kratom supply being tainted/spiked/adulterated. Maybe that is true. Others know far more on this than me. It just appears like the AKA is pushing a narrative that will allow the kratom market to be controlled by a select group, like as someone mentioned has been done with weed in a few states.

That is just how I view the subject. I could be dead wrong and be putting my foot on my mouth. But without the AKA I do believe Kratom would have been banned, or at least banned in several states. So I still respect the hell out of them and donate when I can with what I am able to donate.

[BallzDeep9]

I agree I guess. Ballz had a vendor sub? Interesting. Didn't know that. I just dislike tension as a rule, especially here..

Then stop hi-jacking this thread, dude! please. Most of your questions are answered in the other thread, if you bother to READ the links posted. That's really all it was.. I discovered, and posted, those lost Reddit threads and got back 3 pages of SCREAMING in ALL CAPS

HERE we are discussing the KCPA - It's a very complex thing that involves LEGAL issues, matters of State law, and Federal law. AND... the future of Kratom in the U.S.A. Lots of questions... Lots of concerns. Legit concerns!. Yesterday, I think I had too much caffeine - Had a coffee at the store, plus 1+ extra cup of Aeropress after grinding some Sumatra Mandheling beans.. then I dipped into my stash of MD Ultra from KOG. I'd swear that MD Ultra is laced with caffeine, maybe Green Tea?

Anyway, someone said Texas. Lets say, you're a Online Vendor, with physical address located in Texas... you're selling via a website, to people in 49 states? Minus the 7-8 states who BAN kratom under their State Law, right? OH and Sarasota County in Florida... and San Diego County. Any others? (It's getting to be a LONG, long, list of states and counties that each have their own Laws and Regulations and bans and rules...) So, you're in Texas. A guy in Idaho buys kratom by email, or your website. You ship that kratom to Idaho.

Oops! Lets say Idaho, now has a KCPA Regulation. With $ Fines and criminal charges for selling kratom to residents of Idaho, without a Idaho license to sell.. you SOLD that kratom through your website. You never PAID the State of Idaho the $400 or whatever, to be registered.. so you're now breaking State law. First... HOW does Idaho even find out? Easy - that customer was really a vendor, who "Set you Up" and turned you in. Yes. That fake customer... can now, do several things: 1- They can SUE you in Court, State of Idaho, for violating the KCPA. You'll need to appear in Idaho court, if you don't travel there & appear you get a Default Judgement against you for a Fine of $2500, (plus expenses and court costs?) and... then Idaho as all states, will attempt to collect via the state's Long Arm statutes.

OH... and you could face criminal charges. Misdemeanor. Which means if you stay in Texas, you're not likely to be extradited from Texas to Idaho to face those criminal charges of selling unregistered kratom... Still, it SUCKS to have this stupid law on the books? Oh screw it. Fuck it, you'll just shut down your Online Vendor business and forget kratom... You don't need criminal charges in Idaho and $2500 fines from a dozen other states.

[mivanqua]

Not hijacking the thread. Not to mention, you blatantly hijacked BOTH of those locked threads. I dont want to start a new thread because I'm pretty sure it would turn into round three. I already commented on my feelings about the KCPA et. al. I snuck this in here because it could easily be overlooked in general and not result in another locked thread because two full-on adults wanna sling some shit at each other like monkeys or something. I'm going to message those people on reddit and find out once and for all. For the benefit of ALL.. FYI I'm allowed to have my opinion, as well as speak it if I feel inclined to do so just as you are. I would comment on the threads that are applicable to the subject, but....so I can't start a new thread, can't comment on the appropriate thread, what other option IS THERE besides this one? Just prove it. Problem solved. Two year old reddit posts wouldn't hold up in court, so why do you think they hold up here? Seriously. Just PROVE IT. If your case is so strong, that should not be too much to ask or too much trouble. You can't half-ass this shit. Half-assing accusations is not correct. Would you want me to half-ass some accusations about you? What's the FIRST thing you'd say? "Prove it!" right? That's my point. I'm listening. I'm on neither side here. I want the truth, not a bunch of speculation and bullshit. We ALL do. As Rollins also said on Henrietta Collins and the Wifebeating Childhaters, "HIT ME!"

Here is the lesser known, and in my opinion, the ONLY good Rollins work I've heard, and I used to live with a punk rocker, Ive heard (or been subjected to in this case) the lot of it. You're welcome.

https://youtu.be/gfWIPi74lug

His other stuff sucks! He is BY FAR the worst Black Flag singer. Poser sell-out piece of shit. But THIS? A moment of brilliance. At least he had ONE I guess...

And yes, I "bothered" to read those reddit links. I always "bother"

[KratomAdvocateMO]

So if i live in a state that passes KCPA does that mean i can no longer order from my go to vendor on the internet if he/she is out of state

[CatfatherB]

So if i live in a state that passes KCPA does that mean i can no longer order from my go to vendor on the internet if he/she is out of state

Yep...

[MikeEdoessomething]

So if i live in a state that passes KCPA does that mean i can no longer order from my go to vendor on the internet if he/she is out of state

Yep...

This is my biggest fear with the KCPA. I know every state is different, but if this type of bill is passed and stops people from buying from out of state vendors, that would suck. Of course that is better than a ban, but I really wish the AKA pushed for basic regulation like age limits/labels but without the requirements that Ballz listed.

I'm in North Carolina, which the AKA has listed as a Target state. There are no ban attempts in North Carolina and the state has many Kratom/Kava bars, so don't know why they are targeting NC. Curious, how would a KCPA change Kratom bars?

[mivanqua]

It's a little hazy. What if your favorite vendor is Herbal RVA. You live in a KCPA state. You order HRVA. I suppose jfish would stop selling to KCPA states, but who would ever even know? Most vendors I've dealt with send their stuff in very nondescript boxes or envelopes. It just, at this point, makes no sense. What about OWNERSHIP? Am I only allowed to carry around Remarkable Herbs and not Botanical Bunny if I live in a KCPA state? How would they even know? They are opening a pretty, pretty, pretty big can of worms that I think THEY haven't even thought all the way through. Political types have dollar signs in their eyes. If it's the best the AKA can do, I'm with it, I guess...I'm sure there is a way around all of this. And that way, unfortunately, is money. I am pretty sure that there is some sort of PAYMENT TO STATE GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS buried in the KCPA somewhere and that's the important part. Even if you can't find it or it's not talked about publicly, it's most certainly there somewhere. THATS where your donations go. Lobbying officials. It's ok, guys. As fucked and completely UNDEMOCRATIC as that sounds, it's the way these things work.Our government and its policies are ALL up for sale to the highest bidder. I'm hoping the KCPA isnt followed to the letter, and it's just a monacre that states "Hey Big Pharma, The AKA paid us more money than you, so..." Are any of the KCPA states actually moving toward adhering to the guidelines or are there any publicly known plans to do so on the books? That's the important part and a part we should be following.


All I hear is crickets.....

[Greyfeather]

I'm ok with the KCPA in theory... the practice can be a different story of course, but I don't think it will be; I'm sure the vendors would have a better idea. My main concern is monitoring and testing for harmful pathogens. I've gotten pretty sick a few times before. A lot of vendors on here are very vigilant, but there are so many out there.

As for reviews leading the way and keeping each other informed, while it's great for those of us on DoubleM, we make up a tiny percentage of kratom users. All we need are salmonella and e. coli stories circulating in the news, or any RC "enhanced" leaf getting around to damage kratom's image. Just my two cents.

May I ask which vendors made you sick?

We all seek certain vendors for our own reasons: We are newbies and don't know where to go. Some dude said "buy there." We saw one of a hundred online vendors and believed in the Magic. Or everyone is looking for a freakin' deal in our shitty economy so "I bought a kilo for $50."

When it comes to the KCPA and the AKA - theory or no (haha) - they are NOT going to look out for your best interest any more than you have.

By which I mean to say that, if you want GOOD (fire!) kratom and you DON'T want to get sick, then be a savvier shopper. Your saying that you have bought a lot of kratom from a lot of "vendors" means absolutely NOTHING concerning its safety. And asking an agency to protect you from your own bad decisions is making me laugh out loud.

Makes you laugh out loud? What's with the arrogance here? Did you read anything I wrote? People getting sick looks bad for kratom and the media and FDA will jump on that every chance they get. Half of their argument is heavy metals and salmonella already. You don't have to be a master strategist to figure out the less they have to go cite, the worse their argument is.

If you read what I wrote, we make up a small percentage of kratom users. Most of the people out there are buying 20 dollar ounces and have no information about the vendor. I haven't used shit vendors in years. The 2 times in the last year I got sick was from 2 great vendors supported on this website. No it wasn't because i ate sushi. No it wasn't because I redosed too soon. It wasn't the flu. It was severe stomach pain for days, and one time for 2 weeks that was 100 percent from the kratom.

I don't say their names because i'm not trying to hurt anyone's business, when they are good honest people doing the right thing, and I still order from them regularly. Shit happens. They are great vendors and most of their stuff has been great. My point is, if you read what I wrote, there are plenty of shady vendors out there that can get the public sick and not think twice about it. That looks terrible for kratom.

Regulations is not always bad. The AKA seems to think so too. The idea of not wanting standards for something you ingest regularly is retarded.

I'm sorry that you ended up with some kratom that made you sick. I certainly don't find that amusing. And I also apologize if I sounded arrogant. I have strong opinions about the AKA and the KCPA.
You're right; we do enjoy a privilege here on Double M. I think that we try to stay informed. We help to educated each other. It can be easy to forget that there are thousands of people out there who don't have the tools to make choices that benefit them most. And, of course, there is so much misinformation - which I feel hurts us every bit as much as some tainted leaf.
When it comes to that subject: forums like this give us the chance to "weed out" the bad vendors. When I started using kratom, safety was my first priority. It always will be. How to keep it safe and see Small Batch Sellers continue to thrive? Wouldn't it be nice if we could get the Money Guyz to back off? I'm going to take Ballz's advice and become more active.
Again, I'm sorry if I offended you. I did not mean to minimized your experience.

[jabro70]

So if i live in a state that passes KCPA does that mean i can no longer order from my go to vendor on the internet if he/she is out of state

Yep...

I don’t really know if it will come to that. I live in Georgia (one of those goober states). KCPA has been passed for some time now. I still order from the same vendors that all the rest of you order from. My time may be running out though, so I have at least stocked up a bit. All it will probably take is a tainted batch getting out and reported in the news and I think the screws might start to tighten. (And I struggle with whether or not that would be a bad thing).
I guess if that happens I’ll deal with it. I really don’t want to live anywhere else.