How widespread do you think "bait and switching" is in the industry?

[WarmFoothills]

I'm sure many of you are aware of this accusation... vendor knows customers shop for a variety of small amounts, trying to determine which strains to buy in bulk. The theory that some have espoused is that they knowingly sell you small amounts of high quality leaf, then we you come back for a kilo of what you think is the same product they sell subpar quality kratom.

I feel like this may have happened to me a couple times, but honestly I'm not positive. Could have been an honest mistake (supplier tells vendor it's the same batch when it's not, something like that?). I feel like some element of placebo may be involved? Often times I also notice the same batch of kratom can be fantastic one day but then for whatever reason the next day can be a letdown.

But I don't know, what do you all think? Do you suspect this happens fairly frequently in the industry or just a few bad apples? Or is it something of a myth?

[onespeedstop]

The only time I ever bought a sample-pack it worked out o.k. Since then I've found smaller vendors (ie = no brick and mortar store, and they don't sell capsules) and hardly had any bunk without ordering any samples first, just a split kilo and a hail-mary since I'm basically guessing on which strains to order unless I saw a recent review here on double M ha-ha. My guess is it's fairly rare, the problem as I understand it, is that say a vendor gets say 20-30 kilos of a strain, well, by the time you've ordered a sample, tried it, and decided you wanted more, that exact one is sold out. They probably just send you the next batch, or something similar, and maybe it's not as good or not the same. That'd be my best guess, cause purposely deceiving/cheating your customers is not a very bright move if you want to be in business for very long. Word travels pretty quick online.

[MycatTimmy]

Do you think that may be another reason that many vendors are moving away from sample packs ? I know that they are labor intensive to prepare for very little profit. Then he runs the risk of being accused of bait and switch after selling sample packs. It seems like a no win situation all the way around for the vendor

[Greyfeather]

A while back Shaun at Fused Flora sent me a very nice 6 'strain' sample. I don't know if he still does that but it was an extremely nice gesture. He has a solid reputation here.

[Devil_Dog21]

Funny you bring this up cause this happened to me but I didn't think of it being a bait and switch, just thought it was a bad batch but I bought a kilo of this stuff which isn't as good as the sample.

[KBull]

I really don’t think it’s that common. Although I’m sure there’s a handful of companies that do/did that. Find a vendor you trust and you’ll know your getting the truth. Most vendors recommended on here are good choices to trust. After years of buying around, now I have only 2 vendors I buy from. And I trust and love them so I give them all of my support. I know they would never try to scam me, and never get duds. Sure sometimes a batch may not have my desired effects, but no duds. Find a vendor you support and trust!

[starshine]

...After years of buying around, now I have only 2 vendors I buy from. And I trust and love them so I give them all of my support. I know they would never try to scam me, and never get duds. Sure sometimes a batch may not have my desired effects, but no duds. Find a vendor you support and trust!

curious, who are your top two? I'd say mine have been TFH, denette, lucky, and rhino. there's several others I like too. def not just two lol. but I agree with finding a couple you fully trust and loyalty. also love your profile pic

[DylanJames]

You know I've had passing thoughts about this before never really thought on it. I never ordered more than 250g back in the old days. But I just ordered a kilo from Lucky Herbals and then I saw this post. He's a trusted vendor with excellent product but I'm still glad he shows you the batch number and when he's out of stock.

It really doesn't make sense to bait and switch unless you sell something fire to people. Then when you're out hype up the next batch and even do pre-orders. Then sell it fast and pack up shop. Then do it again later. The work involved in that would not be worth it.

[LuckyHerbals]

We encountered this all the time as consumers... Order a small bag of a particular strain we really enjoyed, ask the vendor if it was still available a couple of weeks later, and of course, it ALWAYS WAS and then get the order and it was completely different.

Since becoming vendors, we have learned alot about how the Indo and stateside industries operate. As I have said so many times before, integrity is everything. A vendor should lab test. Vendors should strive for GMP (Not necessarily AKA GMP). If you're not 100% there yet, you should still be keeping records for the rare event of an FDA audit or warning. Let me get back on topic..

Basically, the majority of small batch vendors buy an enormous variety of Indo blended strains. There are so many variables that can determine how a batch will turn out. These strains consist of 2 or more base colors blended at different ratios. Make a last minute change to your order, and your Indonesian counterpart may just bag up a bunch of random stuff just to get it out the door.

Alot of these strains are made by using a blending chart, and are not crafted for effects whatsoever. After all, most Indonesians do not consume kratom. So who's judging this harvest before it's blasted off overseas?

Unfortunately, making sales is still the biggest driving factor for so many vendors. So many will say and do whatever it takes to make that "fire batch" sell. And as we all know, when that type of batch is gone, it's gone forever. Thankfully, we have a supplier who uses 4 independent, small batch processors to supply us and 3 others. He sends the majority of his 2 primary farmers' stock to us and one other vendor who I have never seen mentioned anywhere here or anywhere on social media. They have a brick and mortar store in Missouri.

Alot of it is still a mystery I plan to unravel, in due time. Stay tuned.

[Rhino236]

This is why batch numbers are so important.

[LuckyHerbals]

This is why batch numbers are so important.

Batch numbers are useless without vendor integrity.

[Jfish030]

This is why batch numbers are so important.

Batch numbers are useless without vendor integrity.

Truth!

The FDA is the JUDGE. When the batch runs out the batch runs out. If you cheat your opening yourself up to a big whoop ass if something ever happens.

Batch numbers really aren't for the customer, per say. They are for the vendor who will have to address any issue with a batch. If your lying on your batch numbers. You might be addressing WAY more people then needed if any issues ever arise. Batches numbers aren't for hype fire strains, they are for identifying customers if needed if any issues occur with a batch.

You should be keeping some kind of records to find out quickly who ordered a specific batch. If not if the FDA ever comes your done.

If you dont have batch numbers in this day and age of kratom your truly doing yourself and your customers a disservice, or you dont care about them and probably wouldn't even make an announcement or try to relay any information to them if you discovered something wrong.

[pray4peace4]

Yeah, I've had bait & switch pulled on me. I placed an order for a specific strain I liked, & when it arrived it was something else. I contacted the vendor & he said he ran out of what I wanted so shipped me the other. That really pissed me off. I got it fixed but... g**d&#... that is the crappiest customer service ever. What buyer ISN'T going to notice that? He shoulda contacted me first & told me the situation before deciding for me. That mindset is a great way lose customers, especially if word gets out.

[belushi]

Yeah, samples here on double M are just free kratom in my mind. Seems like most the vendors here burn through batches fast, it tends for me to be the get it now or don't get it at all. Very few opportunities to buy/try first and then buy big.

Though I will say, if a sample blows me out of the water and I ask the vendor specifically for more of that one, I don't think I've ever been told no. TFH, soul, HL, benni, ff, have always been forthcoming about a batch if I like it. I don't think I can fault them if they run out before I get he one I like. Communication is key though, rhino just recommended some others to me this week when he was out of what I was wanting. I don't think it's common here with reputable vendors... the backpackers... maybe. I just think it's more burning through a whole batch rather than the bait and switch.

[Playerpiano72]

Haha, haven't heard the term "backpackers" used in awhile. It's got slightly negative connotations I think, but they've certainly taken the kratom game over lately, kinda become the new standard.

[MetalMamaRocks]

Ugh. I've had this happen to me. Got a 10 gram sample that was soooo good, then ordered a kilo and it turned out to be bunk. This was years ago when "customer service" wasn't as important as it is now. I've since also learned not to order kilos. I'll go 500 grams but that's about it. It lasts forever.