Kratom Reddit WILL kill someone

[Havok970]

The night before last I was banned for attempting to help someone in the Kratom Reddit. Here is my post:

"I completely understand where you are coming from. I have had problems coming off antidepressants, and I find that Kratom withdrawal for me can feel similar to SNRI or SSRI withdrawal, which includes severe depression. If you have severe depression symptoms, please be careful. Remember your discomfort is temporary. What you are going through is fairly rare, and lists won't understand. Don't worry about them, and please take care."

This was in response to someone that was hurting badly, depressed, and sounded suicidal. Mark my words: Covering up inhibitor withdrawal and punishing those trying to help people in trouble will DIRECTLY result in somebody dying.

They are more interested in covering up, which WILL HURT KRATOM MORE IN THE LONG RUN! Their actions are clear and wilful negligence, lack of due diligence, and WILFULLY attempting to cover up REAL risks of using this plant. They should be held directly responsible for the death they will inevitably cause, possibly even the person I was trying to help.

[Playerpiano72]

lol ok

[mivanqua]

r/kratom had its day which isn't, by the way, today. Seems like dragonbubbles has jumped ship or at least gone on to greener, less censored pastures. Its not much fun anymore these days, but ill give it lots of points for its presence a few years ago helping us all along. This place is the place to be nowadays. I would be driven crazy by the same questions day in, day out, so don't take this as an anti-r/kratom or anti-dragonbubbles post because it isn't. When I go there, its just to check stuff out because there is always something interesting, even if you do have to dig a little.

[e_poison]

The insane amount of censorship in r/kratom is what what originally led me to create r/kratomm (hence the Double M), a censorship free subreddit to discuss kratom.

And then reddit came out a while later and said "sorry but no more vendor talk or using subreddits as a marketplace", so we then moved here, to our own private website a few years ago.

I haven't been to r/kratom in years. They censor/delete A LOT of content. If you even suggest kratom has any downsides or side effects, the post will never see the light of day and you will most likely end up with a ban. At least, that's how it used to be run. I think a newer team is in charge over there these days since a lot of the old mods jumped ship.

[Sanbutsushin]

It still seems to be that way, unfortunately. There are other kratom subs that people flock to whenever they've been banned from the main one, and I've seen all sorts of reasons given. Someone recently said they were banned for talking about how they make their tea, or something like that. Which sounds like there MUST have been more going on there, because why on earth would you get banned from a kratom subreddit when you're talking about how you take your kratom? Idk. It's odd.

There is definite censorship going on at r/kratom, and I can't claim to understand the basis for most of it (it's also much harder to talk about kratom when you're forbidden from talking about vendors than I would have initially expected!)... and there's a ton of misinformation I've seen just in the handful of times I've browsed there, that often times goes unquestioned and uncorrected. But at the same time I don't know that "kratom reddit WILL kill someone" is necessarily a statement I'd feel comfortable making.

[mitragy9]

People are so worried about a potential ban and legality issues they'd rather lie, even to themselves. Still people deny kratom's potential to cause physical dependence or the fact that it's an opioid by the definition of the word "opioid." The shitty thing is lying or being dishonest about kratom will hurt kratoms legal status in the long run(IMO) as well as put new users at risk for misuse/abuse. I often see kratom get compared to caffeine which is laughable to me that anyone would think the two are even closely related in terms of their dependence causing properties. I love kratom and believe it to benefit a ton of people but we have to be honest about its use otherwise the lies and dishonesty will be used against us.

[Havok970]

Thanks to everyone for the information and support. I have chronic pain and so would be in a world of hurt (literally) without Kratom, and I don't wish to harm it or its users. I also feel it is MUCH better than the alternatives IF used with appropriate knowledge and caveats. I knew that I have a sensitivity to antidepressants, but I didn't know Kratom did it, too, and so had to find out the hard way. I just want to help out others that may have never experienced it, because the first time I went through it decades ago, I almost committed suicide. It boggles my mind that anyone would risk endangering Kratom with a death rather than examine issues like this honestly and frankly.

I admit I was so afraid this post would be censored or I would be flamed so I just now got the guts to look it up. Not the first time this board has surprised me POSITIVELY. I saw some of the drama surrounding r/kratom before I started frequenting Reddit, but I had NO IDEA it was SO BAD. Thanks so much for creating this board, and Kratom on!

[Playerpiano72]

wow. You weren't flamed because no one flames on this board, despite the insanity of the post. That's what gets you banned. Go ahead believing that kratom makes you end up killing yourself. If you really feel that way, you need to be talking to a mental health professional, not anyone here.

[Luvndpeace]

People are so worried about a potential ban and legality issues they'd rather lie, even to themselves. Still people deny kratom's potential to cause physical dependence or the fact that it's an opioid by the definition of the word "opioid." The shitty thing is lying or being dishonest about kratom will hurt kratoms legal status in the long run(IMO) as well as put new users at risk for misuse/abuse. I often see kratom get compared to caffeine which is laughable to me that anyone would think the two are even closely related in terms of their dependence causing properties. I love kratom and believe it to benefit a ton of people but we have to be honest about it's use otherwise the lies and dishonesty will be used against us.

Excellent point!!!

We all love this community, but there seems to this misplaced anger towards addicts. The enemy is the entities coming after us. Addicts recovering or still active are a major part of this community and deserve to feel welcomed. Knowledge is power, and people are going to do dumb shit it’s inevitable. It is on them to take the risk. Does that affect the community if they use one crazy example to target the community? Yes of course, but that’s not on the addict. Especially when info is already out there, I’d rather them get good honest feedback to process this decision than say no we shouldn’t have that info on here.

There just seems to be an heir from some users who put down addicts or people with high tolerances, and it’s not cool. They have a place in this community. If people spent less time making them feel like crap, maybe they would actually hear some of the great advice that’s out there - because it is! There’s so many experienced people on here. However if the message is tainted with judgement, disapproval, blame, and superiority - none of those people will hear the often times good messages being offered from, I believe, often well intentioned people.

Everyone is different. That is fact. So while a majority of people might find their experience led them to one path, keep up front it’s still your opinion, unless you have some scientifically sturdied and published info backing it up. Everyone got here by different means and with different backgrounds. They all have their path to finding their right amount and method of consumption. This is a safe space for them just as much as anyone else period.

[mitragy9]

wow. You weren't flamed because no one flames on this board, despite the insanity of the post. That's what gets you banned. Go ahead believing that kratom makes you end up killing yourself. If you really feel that way, you need to be talking to a mental health professional, not anyone here.

What's so hard to believe about this post? First off drugs affect everyone differently, op states that they've had problems coming of SSRI's therefore they may be sensitive to serotonergic drugs which kratom is known to have some activity on serotonin. Obviously someone who suffers from major depression will be in a much worse spot after quitting kratom and possibly entering the lovely state known as opioid withdrawal. What's so insane about this concept? Any changes in brain chemistry can be disastrous for someone who suffers from clinical depression. No one here is trying to demonize kratom or say it's evil and needs to be outlawed. Yet people like yourself and those on r/kratom take it this way every single time someone points out a potential side effect or adverse reaction. Everything has pros and cons kratom is no different.

[BallzDeep9]

wow. You weren't flamed because no one flames on this board, despite the insanity of the post. That's what gets you banned. Go ahead believing that kratom makes you end up killing yourself. If you really feel that way, you need to be talking to a mental health professional, not anyone here.

Agree. Well, nobody gets banned on this board, it's No Censorship which includes negative FUD, and false info... Let's be honest, some people, should not take Kratom. Any substance has a downside when abused in huge amounts... Kratom being "new" its like, OK, anything goes ?? No. Our little community is now dealing with a flood of poly-drug abusers, OCD, and those with serious mental problems... Bi-polar or schizophrenic, who should follow a Doctor's advice. It's unknown how kratom may interact with some other medications.

Online Forums always change, they never stay the same... 3 Years ago when MM started, we didn't have these "issues". People come and go.

[brave777]

I think people who never took a breaks from kratom should have zero say in anything to do with that kratom never gives WD's. Well i am saying at least one full week of no kratom. 2 or 3 days dont count. I just have a deep feeling maybe 50% of people on this board never took a full week off from kratom. First time going trough WD's and not knowing how to cut the bad feeling in half so you dont go crazy suicidal can get intense especially if you a crazy high doser. And to be blunt, there is a lot of noobs who chasing dragons without expecting any consequences. Its a good thing when someone comes to rescue but if got no proper support or internet it can get hard for noobs. I dont think at all kratom WD's are bad, not even close to anything pharma gives people. Its easy i mean very easy to taper down, instructions are written on the wall all over internet even reddit. If any noob didnt do any research, its their own fault for falling into the pit of HELL. I tell everyone to do their own research and spend a full day, if i mention kratom. That way they dont come back to me and say, oh i thought this was like coffee, you lied! So lets not confuse people and be strait with them when talking about kratom.

[Luvndpeace]

wow. You weren't flamed because no one flames on this board, despite the insanity of the post. That's what gets you banned. Go ahead believing that kratom makes you end up killing yourself. If you really feel that way, you need to be talking to a mental health professional, not anyone here.

Agree. Well, nobody gets banned on this board, it's No Censorship which includes negative FUD, and false info... Let's be honest, some people, should not take Kratom. Any substance has a downside when abused in huge amounts... Kratom being "new" its like, OK, anything goes ?? No. Our little community is now dealing with a flood of poly-drug abusers, OCD, and those with serious mental problems... Bi-polar or schizophrenic, who should follow a Doctor's advice. It's unknown how kratom may interact with some other medications.

Online Forums always change, they never stay the same... 3 Years ago when MM started, we didn't have these "issues". People come and go.

And exactly who is it up to who qualifies as people who should be taking Kratom? To be clear - so you want Kratom regulated? Everyone got here for one reason or another. Everyone takes it for something - mood, relaxation, energy, and many more uses that are personal to everyone.

People subscribe to this one size fits all formula for Kratom, but that’s not reality. The human body is amazing and there are many different reasons why different people need different things. Especially in regards to some of the known interactions that occur within our body like possible CYP enzyme intersections. There is still so much to learn, that cannot be learned from anecdotal evidence and personal preference, no matter how many people “subscribe” to certain experiences.

This entire forum is filled with opinions - not medical science. Yes there is very limited data and studies that have been done. However, there is still way too much to learn to make 90% of the comments made on here.

Kratom is out there, and those outsiders are now part of the community, whether you think they should be here or not. Or maybe the FDA and pharma should be the ones to hand out the 2g/day that many think is the max anyone “needs.”

Like any forum people have their own personal responsibility to read through others’ experiences and find their path. As far as I’m concerned people with mental health and Polysub use issues are just as much a part of this community as me. Oh and by the way - no one in here is on prescribed meds? Blood pressure, diabetes, etc. because pretty sure these interactions have not been thoroughly studied either. So only people not on any meds should consume Kratom? No it’s up to that person to discuss with their doc and make that personal decision themselves.

[Sanbutsushin]

Agree. Well, nobody gets banned on this board, it's No Censorship which includes negative FUD, and false info... Let's be honest, some people, should not take Kratom. Any substance has a downside when abused in huge amounts... Kratom being "new" its like, OK, anything goes ?? No. Our little community is now dealing with a flood of poly-drug abusers, OCD, and those with serious mental problems... Bi-polar or schizophrenic, who should follow a Doctor's advice. It's unknown how kratom may interact with some other medications.

Online Forums always change, they never stay the same... 3 Years ago when MM started, we didn't have these "issues". People come and go.

Oh dear. This kind of judgment is not helpful, my friend. As someone who openly lives with Bipolar II, I really can't help but to take this one personally.

I can agree that some people should not take kratom... but that is not for you or me to decide. That is up to the individual. To call out people with health issues as some sort of negative influence on the community when we make up what I suspect is the majority of the community, that sours me a bit.

I don't know how much experience you have with psychiatric medications, but the side-effects are plentiful and often severe. They can run the gamut from just aches and pains to significant weight gain, to dangerous sleepwalking, to serious conditions that have the potential to be fatal. Yes, everyone with any illness should consult a doctor. I myself have no plans to stop taking my psych meds because I found kratom - I take it for chronic pain in a world where it is exceedingly difficult to get actual pain medication to deal with that - but I understand people who look at the problems with long-term use of psych meds and turn to kratom as an alternative, especially after my own experiences of a decade of jumping from med to med.

But if people can take kratom in place of opioids without falling under fire for that, I really don't see the difference. Addicts have found relief in kratom. You would think this is a positive thing, something to be celebrated; it's honestly pretty terrible to treat any group of people that's trying to better their lives as though they're a burden or unwelcome. We are all here because we find kratom to have done good for us. What are the major reasons people use kratom at all? Physical or mental ailments they're trying to alleviate. Of course it's not a regulated substance and interaction with existing medications is always something to consider, but again, not a single one of us can control what someone else puts into their body. It's an extremely personal decision and I would not pretend to know what's best for anyone but myself. We should all extend that same attitude to the people around us instead of trying to say that they shouldn't be here. Who decides what is or is not an "acceptable" reason to take it? For heaven's sake.

I just found this post to be unnecessarily condescending and alienating for a significant portion of the people who use kratom. Apologies if it comes across as at all incendiary but I can't let that slide without addressing it. I've found this board to be incredibly welcoming and helpful to me; I would really hate to see someone else driven away from this board or from kratom itself because of attitudes like those in the quoted post.

EDIT: Oh it would seem I jumped the gun there, Luvnpeace said what I meant to say in a much more concise manner, lol!

[DittonW]

Let's be honest, some people, should not take Kratom.

we should find those people and warn them before they do something they shouldn't do

[Playerpiano72]

Oh dear. This kind of judgment is not helpful, my friend. As someone who openly lives with Bipolar II, I really can't help but to take this one personally.

I can agree that some people should not take kratom... but that is not for you or me to decide. That is up to the individual. To call out people with health issues as some sort of negative influence on the community when we make up what I suspect is the majority of the community, that sours me a bit.

I don't know how much experience you have with psychiatric medications, but the side-effects are plentiful and often severe. They can run the gamut from just aches and pains to significant weight gain, to dangerous sleepwalking, to serious conditions that have the potential to be fatal. Yes, everyone with any illness should consult a doctor. I myself have no plans to stop taking my psych meds because I found kratom - I take it for chronic pain in a world where it is exceedingly difficult to get actual pain medication to deal with that - but I understand people who look at the problems with long-term use of psych meds and turn to kratom as an alternative, especially after my own experiences of a decade of jumping from med to med.

But if people can take kratom in place of opioids without falling under fire for that, I really don't see the difference. Addicts have found relief in kratom. You would think this is a positive thing, something to be celebrated; it's honestly pretty terrible to treat any group of people that's trying to better their lives as though they're a burden or unwelcome. We are all here because we find kratom to have done good for us. What are the major reasons people use kratom at all? Physical or mental ailments they're trying to alleviate. Of course it's not a regulated substance and interaction with existing medications is always something to consider, but again, not a single one of us can control what someone else puts into their body. It's an extremely personal decision and I would not pretend to know what's best for anyone but myself. We should all extend that same attitude to the people around us instead of trying to say that they shouldn't be here. Who decides what is or is not an "acceptable" reason to take it? For heaven's sake.

I just found this post to be unnecessarily condescending and alienating for a significant portion of the people who use kratom. Apologies if it comes across as at all incendiary but I can't let that slide without addressing it. I've found this board to be incredibly welcoming and helpful to me; I would really hate to see someone else driven away from this board or from kratom itself because of attitudes like those in the quoted post.

EDIT: Oh it would seem I jumped the gun there, Luvnpeace said what I meant to say in a much more concise manner, lol!

Well said my friend.

[Luvndpeace]

Agree. Well, nobody gets banned on this board, it's No Censorship which includes negative FUD, and false info... Let's be honest, some people, should not take Kratom. Any substance has a downside when abused in huge amounts... Kratom being "new" its like, OK, anything goes ?? No. Our little community is now dealing with a flood of poly-drug abusers, OCD, and those with serious mental problems... Bi-polar or schizophrenic, who should follow a Doctor's advice. It's unknown how kratom may interact with some other medications.

Online Forums always change, they never stay the same... 3 Years ago when MM started, we didn't have these "issues". People come and go.

I EDIT: Oh it would seem I jumped the gun there, Luvnpeace said what I meant to say in a much more concise manner, lol!

Sanbutsushin - Thank you for your honest and fearless post. I see you and what you go through, and I respect you for it! It’s not easy.

I would argue you said it better. What you said was personal and from the heart and takes guts.

I hope that anyone who finds this community knows they are welcome no matter what they are going through or where they came from - mental health issues, addiction, pain, stress, and more.

There are people that want you here, and there are people just like me, sanbutsushin, and many others who feel your pain and struggle.

Unfortunately, not all of us have the luxury of going through life without any ailments.

[StringThing]

The insane amount of censorship in r/kratom is what what originally led me to create r/kratomm (hence the Double M), a censorship free subreddit to discuss kratom.

And then reddit came out a while later and said "sorry but no more vendor talk or using subreddits as a marketplace", so we then moved here, to our own private website a few years ago.

I haven't been to r/kratom in years. They censor/delete A LOT of content. If you even suggest kratom has any downsides or side effects, the post will never see the light of day and you will most likely end up with a ban. At least, that's how it used to be run. I think a newer team is in charge over there these days since a lot of the old mods jumped ship.

The mods on r/kratom are messed up. You cannot even refer to kratom as an opioid. I have been banned multiple times on that sub just for talking about kratom's addictive potential.

I really don't understand why they don't focus on advertising the science instead of covering up the facts. Lack of recruitment at arrestin-beta-2 proteins means it is significantly safer and less intense than opiates. No respiratory depression. No overdoses. That is MASSIVE. Honestly who cares if it is addictive when it is saving lives? This is the major selling point they need to be pushing with kratom. It shows people that it isn't dangerous.

Really not a fan of the way the AKA tries to suck donations from people either. They operate totally on fear tactics and they embellish and hide a lot to shine kratom in a good light. They're fighting propaganda with propaganda.

[e_poison]

Well, nobody gets banned on this board,

Ohhhh yes they do lol. We've banned plenty of disruptive people over the years. There is a HUGE difference between trolling and having a heated debate. You may have seen heated debates here, but we do our best to clean up the blatant trolling. When it turns into personal attacks and name-calling, that's when we step in and clean it up. We let debates run their course as long as they stay civil.

it's No Censorship which includes negative FUD, and false info...

It's a chance to educate. When people post bad or misleading info here, they usually get called out on it pretty quickly.

[Luvndpeace]

Hope I did not break any rules or overstep e_poison . Please let me know or message me. I tried to respectfully offer my perspective on something that's very personal to me and I know some others in the community.

I was given a hand by many members, and I'm grateful and want to do the same in the best way possible.

[e_poison]

Hope I did not break any rules or overstep e_poison . Please let me know or message me. I tried to respectfully offer my perspective on something that's very personal to me and I know some others in the community.

I was given a hand by many members, and I'm grateful and want to do the same in the best way possible.

No worries! You're completely fine! My post wasn't about this thread or targeting anyone in particular. Just that we understand heated debates happen, which is totally okay, unless they devolve into personal attacks at which time we step in as mods. We like to keep this place as friendly and welcoming as possible for everyone.

[Luvndpeace]

Hope I did not break any rules or overstep e_poison . Please let me know or message me. I tried to respectfully offer my perspective on something that's very personal to me and I know some others in the community.

I was given a hand by many members, and I'm grateful and want to do the same in the best way possible.

No worries! You're completely fine! My post wasn't about this thread or targeting anyone in particular. Just that we understand heated debates happen, which is totally okay, unless they devolve into personal attacks at which time we step in as mods. We like to keep this place as friendly and welcoming as possible for everyone.

Appreciate it! Didn't take it personally, but did have a should I have posted that thought afterwards, which the answer is usually no if you're asking yourself that.

I'm grateful to be here, and I want to positively contribute like so many others have done and helped me with their experience and hope

[dystopianlost]

lol ok

What is funny about this to you?

[BallzDeep9]

We've banned plenty of disruptive people over the years. There is a HUGE difference between trolling and having a heated debate. You may have seen heated debates here, but we do our best to clean up the blatant trolling. When it turns into personal attacks and name-calling, that's when we step in and clean it up. We let debates run their course as long as they stay civil .... It's a chance to educate. When people post bad or misleading info here, they usually get called out on it pretty quickly.

E, 2 years ago a large study was done on Kratom media, and found 92% negative, false, misleading, stories out there. The website project: Kratom Info Center, had zero links to vendor sales. They even produced a large graphic, summary of the study: LINK

Obviously this has gotten worse since you started MM. Over recent years the amount of false BS, "Reefer Madness", and some outright lies / online trolling, have really jumped... This post is one example. I think we can objectively state, NO - there is zero evidence that Kratom causes suicidal thoughts. In FACT - a majority of users report just the opposite!! Reddit IS the largest Knowledge Base for kratom, a search on "Suicide" shows, many reports that "Kratom Saved Me From Suicide" and similar... Search LINK:

So I get, these are tough issues & you've invested enough time on MM, without having to micro manage the board.. I'm certainly not self appointed Voice Of Reason here... we have guidelines from AKA regarding Kratom, and from science. The concern is, volume of negative false BS gets to the point where it's harming the many Lurkers, who seek real Info about kratom... Yes Reddit has gone overboard on censorship. But, I now have mixed feelings. I'm still pissed about getting banned, the current Mod gives a Ban for single words or phrase even.

However I think we agree... Some trolls deserve a Ban. Are those from Reddit, welcome to post their BS here on MM ?? As I said, boards change over time. You may be familiar with Reveddit, a script that attempts to un-delete Reddit... what's happening, appears to be: Manual approval, of New posts ? So by default ALL new posts are blocked. Then the dude who spends all day modding, warning, & banning... Picks out a few he deems worthy. The Result: around 90% of New topics on Reddit are now censored. Including many False, crazy, and trolling ones. Check it out... Here's a Reveddit LINK: https://www.reveddit.com/r/kratom/

Again, I'm just a Truth Seeker, not saying I have all the answers... A large # of Americans, believe a Big Lie about the election.

[Ravenflow]

Kratom reddit is cancer I got banned from Kratom reddit for calling out someone

[e_poison]

E, 2 years ago a large study was done on Kratom media, and found 92% negative, false, misleading, stories out there. The website project: Kratom Info Center, had zero links to vendor sales. They even produced a large graphic, summary of the study: LINK

I'll check it out, thanks for the link!

Obviously this has gotten worse since you started MM. Over recent years the amount of false BS, "Reefer Madness", and some outright lies / online trolling, have really jumped... This post is one example. I think we can objectively state, NO - there is zero evidence that Kratom causes suicidal thoughts. In FACT - a majority of users report just the opposite!! Reddit IS the largest Knowledge Base for kratom, a search on "Suicide" shows, many reports that "Kratom Saved Me From Suicide" and similar... Search LINK:

So I get, these are tough issues & you've invested enough time on MM, without having to micro manage the board.. I'm certainly not self appointed Voice Of Reason here... we have guidelines from AKA regarding Kratom, and from science. The concern is, volume of negative false BS gets to the point where it's harming the many Lurkers, who seek real Info about kratom... Yes Reddit has gone overboard on censorship. But, I now have mixed feelings. I'm still pissed about getting banned, the current Mod gives a Ban for single words or phrase even.

I have to disagree here about reddit as a whole. I used to think reddit was the be-all end-all of information, but it's really not. It is mainly a site for entertainment, not real information. As an example, many of the personal finance/real estate/investment subs just contain straight up BAD info. It's like first year finance students or high school kids giving advice. Much of it is wrong. Real experts and investment millionaires aren't hanging out on reddit and doling out free advice. In many cases, it's just kids posting BS for upvotes.

As far as the kratom reddit, it is one-sided. Of course only the posts that fit their narrative sees the light of day. Like you said, it's gone way overboard on censorship. It's the same thing as I just pointed out above. A lot of these overly positive and glowing posts are merely posted for karma or upvotes, and in many cases, the poster themselves admits they've just started taking kratom.

To get to the whole picture and understand anything, you need to see the positive and negative aspects, the up and the downs, the ying and the yang. Not just a carefully curated, one-sided view. And unfortunately, kratom reddit will never be the knowledgebase when they only allow censored posting. A real knowledgebase would allow all points of view to get to the truth.

[IndelibleDotInk]

Man, I'm glad I found DoubleM and skipped reddit. Aside from a few AMAs, I never got sucked into reddit, I find the format is distracting and there's a horrible flow when trying to follow a topic.

This is really a great forum, mahalos e and hippie!

[DittonW]

I have to disagree here about reddit as a whole. I used to think reddit was the be-all end-all of information, but it's really not. It is mainly a site for entertainment, not real information. As an example, many of the personal finance/real estate/investment subs just contain straight up BAD info.

I'm going to take responsibility for myself and not blame my $7000 emergency room bill on r/quitingphenibut . But they sure didn't help . it's my own fault for asking for medical advice there, but still. Not a voice of reason in the crowd. I asked for advice when I cold turkeyed phenibut and I got a string of hysterical voices urging me to go straight to the emergency room . It was a definitive over reaction.

[herbalhippie]

I asked for advice when I cold turkeyed phenibut and I got a string of hysterical voices urging me to go straight to the emergency room .

I probably would have been one of those people. Isn't it true you can die from withdrawals from substances like phenibut? That you have to taper down?

[DittonW]

I asked for advice when I cold turkeyed phenibut and I got a string of hysterical voices urging me to go straight to the emergency room .

I probably would have been one of those people. Isn't it true you can die from withdrawals from substances like phenibut? That you have to taper down?

Well, I know hindsight is 20/20. and yes , tapering is highly recommended . In my case , the only point I am trying to make is that the ONLY THING that came of visiting r/phenibut was increased anxiety. There are a lot of ways to manage high blood pressure and anxiety besides going to the emergency room though .

I have not been able to find any documented cases of death from phenibut withdrawal. Because it reacts in a somewhat similar way the benzodiazepine's on gaba receptors I think that people mistakenly attribute benzo characteristics to it . Even death from benzodiazepine is pretty rare - but that could be because the mental and psychologic distress reaches unbearable levels before it reaches that point. .

I understand that it is better safe than sorry when giving withdrawal advice - but in my case the only thing I was reporting was slightly high blood pressure and anxiety . After posting on r/phenibut asking for advice my blood pressure shot up significantly after the stream of "holy shit you could die!" replies. It just fed into the anxiety resulting in a low level panic attack . My blood pressure came down significantly at the emergency room before I was even treated . And then later I found out that their "treatment" consisted only of IV fluids.

[epicnessity]

Kratom reddit is cancer I got banned from Kratom reddit for calling out someone

Reddit as a whole is cancer. It, along with every other social media, is giving a very large microphone to all of societies problems and forcing everyone to listen at 11.

[Kratomtoa]

I think the key word here is EDUCATION. You can’t control others behaviors and it’s frustrating because those behaviors can then effect what happens to you. People WILL use and abuse absolutely anything, what’s important is that the information is out there. Both the good and the bad. Censoring or limiting discussion hurts everyone. If someone says something balls-to-the-wall crazy/incorrect/inflammatory, correct them and explain WHY. Not for their benefit, but for everyone else reading. That, hopefully, will provide the tools to navigate whatever else they encounter in the future and can make an educated decision. Whether it’s a smart one or not, at least it’s not ignorance.

[Havok970]

We've banned plenty of disruptive people over the years. There is a HUGE difference between trolling andn having a heated debate. You may have seen heated debates here, but we do our best to clean up the blatant trolling. When it turns into personal attacks and name-calling, that's when we step in and clean it up. We let debates run their course as long as they stay civil .... It's a chance to educate. When people post bad or misleading info here, they usually get called out on it pretty quickly.

E, 2 years ago a large study was done on Kratom media, and found 92% negative, false, misleading, stories out there. The website project: Kratom Info Center, had zero links to vendor sales. They even produced a large graphic, summary of the study: LINK

Obviously this has gotten worse since you started MM. Over recent years the amount of false BS, "Reefer Madness", and some outright lies / online trolling, have really jumped... This post is one example. I think we can objectively state, NO - there is zero evidence that Kratom causes suicidal thoughts. In FACT - a majority of users report just the opposite!! Reddit IS the largest Knowledge Base for kratom, a search on "Suicide" shows, many reports that "Kratom Saved Me From Suicide" and similar... Search LINK:

So I get, these are tough issues & you've invested enough time on MM, without having to micro manage the board.. I'm certainly not self appointed Voice Of Reason here... we have guidelines from AKA regarding Kratom, and from science. The concern is, volume of negative false BS gets to the point where it's harming the many Lurkers, who seek real Info about kratom... Yes Reddit has gone overboard on censorship. But, I now have mixed feelings. I'm still pissed about getting banned, the current Mod gives a Ban for single words or phrase even.

However I think we agree... Some trolls deserve a Ban. Are those from Reddit, welcome to post their BS here on MM ?? As I said, boards change over time. You may be familiar with Reveddit, a script that attempts to un-delete Reddit... what's happening, appears to be: Manual approval, of New posts ? So by default ALL new posts are blocked. Then the dude who spends all day modding, warning, & banning... Picks out a few he deems worthy. The Result: around 90% of New topics on Reddit are now censored. Including many False, crazy, and trolling ones. Check it out... Here's a Reveddit LINK: https://www.reveddit.com/r/kratom/

Again, I'm just a Truth Seeker, not saying I have all the answers... A large # of Americans, believe a Big Lie about the election.

It's not clear how much of this is aimed at my post, but I do feel some need to respond.

Sharing one's personal experience is way different from spreading disinformation. If you have had anti-depressant discontinuation syndrome, you never want it again or want to see anyone go through it. I think the leap to "Kratom causes suicide" is an unfair characterization.

I just would urge the people who know they have this be aware and taper and/or cross taper, but due to the rules, I thought that would surely get me banned.

I would also urge people who don't have experience with it to educate themselves about it and help anyone who might be experiencing it because the first time is HELL.

On Reddit:
As for Reddit, it is crowdsourcing that is significantly better than Facebook, but it is only as good as the moderators. My experience with the Mods has been fairly negative, but there are also groups with good moderators like r/altcannabinoids.

The bottom line for me is "the devil is in the details" (so to speak) and ignoring (or banning) the details will in my experience always leads to bad outcomes. A little knowledge and tapering is all that is required to mitigate this issue, and I maintain that banning people for the slightest mention could kill someone.

[brassy]

@brave777 -- I was sorry your withdrawal was so severe but to doubt most accounts from folks who get no withdrawal whatsoever is as silly as denying withdrawal is a factor for many Kratom users.

I have been using Kratom daily for over a year but ran out of it three times -- twice for over a week (I am a very laggard shopper ... I will literally eat the last dry bean in the house before making a supermarket run or even ordering online, if I don't want to deal with it).

I expected WD. I used to be a cigarette junkie (four packs a day), still crave them after 20 years. I get withdrawal if I go off caffeine and years back, when GHB was popular, I got WD when I kicked.

But nothing happens to me when I stop using Kratom,
apart from thinking it would be nice if I hadn't run out of Kratom which I mostly take for pain (I'm awaiting surgery which should resolve the pain issue).

I also haven't really developed tolerance.

Look, I can't say that I won't be a raging addict after another year or that I won't develop tolerance in future but you are holding the Kratom community deniers to a ridiculous standard.

Remember when Prozac and other SSRIs and SRIs came out? I sure do. My high priced NYC docs told me it was impossible I could be experiencing withdrawal (even though withdrawal from psychotropic meds has since been exhaustively documented).

The Kratom community is still relatively young and Kratom may never be studied to anywhere near the same degree as prescription meds.

As a result, we have to depend on anecdotal accounts of others along with our personal experiences.

I am not denying your account of your withdrawal experiences with Kratom but I urge you to keep an open mind concerning others who relate that their own experience with withdrawal was more benign.

[brave777]

@brave777 -- I was sorry your withdrawal was so severe but to doubt most accounts from folks who get no withdrawal whatsoever is as silly as denying withdrawal is a factor for many Kratom users.

I have been using Kratom daily for over a year but ran out of it three times -- twice for over a week (I am a very laggard shopper ... I will literally eat the last dry bean in the house before making a supermarket run or even ordering online, if I don't want to deal with it).

I expected WD. I used to be a cigarette junkie (four packs a day), still crave them after 20 years. I get withdrawal if I go off caffeine and years back, when GHB was popular, I got WD when I kicked.

But nothing happens to me when I stop using Kratom,
apart from thinking it would be nice if I hadn't run out of Kratom which I mostly take for pain (I'm awaiting surgery which should resolve the pain issue).

I also haven't really developed tolerance.

Look, I can't say that I won't be a raging addict after another year or that I won't develop tolerance in future but you are holding the Kratom community deniers to a ridiculous standard.

Remember when Prozac and other SSRIs and SRIs came out? I sure do. My high priced NYC docs told me it was impossible I could be experiencing withdrawal (even though withdrawal from psychotropic meds has since been exhaustively documented).

The Kratom community is still relatively young and Kratom may never be studied to anywhere near the same degree as prescription meds.

As a result, we have to depend on anecdotal accounts of others along with our personal experiences.

I am not denying your account of your withdrawal experiences with Kratom but I urge you to keep an open mind concerning others who relate that their own experience with withdrawal was more benign.

Honestly i think i made a big mistake blamin kratom, this started when co workers started jabbing them selfs. Shedding was unreal,we literly had 7 new people replace old co worers, having no choice but to work with vaxxed people thatalways in contact with,, made me lose taste and completly zero effects from kratom and made meall the symptoms described that vaxxed people get. I left a good paying job wont even regret, its the best paying job in SC or up there but its not even about the money , its about the health. Health is more important. I every night i showed up to work was feeling weirder and weirder once i left after a week i fully recovered. I found out later about vaxxed people shedding. When i came back to kratom it made me very sensetive to even 2 grams, but now i am back to normal 4 or 6 grams. Really regret saying less is more at the same time if you do once in a while, yes that works but if you dose everyday, less is more wont work. And you right i have never had it so bad in 7 years, it only started when vaxing rolled out. 100% what caused it. Sacraficed good paying job for health. we are just numbers at work and cared less, one comes another leaves. I am fully recovered and seeking another job that dont include working close with other people. was thinking truck driving but there are other options i have. we will see.

[herbalhippie]

Vaxxed people don't shed virus, brave. If they did, people would be dropping like flies.

[brave777]

Vaxxed people don't shed virus, brave. If they did, people would be dropping like flies.

sorry, thats your belief.

[LeafersonJr32]

Look yes kratom does cause withdrawals that's for sure, but they are much much milder than the withdrawals of any pharm drug and I don't think anyone who has ever went through withdrawals from pharms will disagree. Yes people should know that kratom will cause withdrawal symptoms when overused. I burn 7 to 8 grams 3 times a day and I have no problem going atleast 10 hours between burns. Kratom does way way more good and helps way more people than harm that it could ever do. Ballz point is that all of you are here as kratom users, but there is a crazy high rate of people putting out negative effect stories and that truly is not good for anyone. I'm not saying anyone should be censored, just saying if you think it's so bad why don't you taper down and quit. Kratom saved my life from a very serious 200mg a day oxycodone habit and I has made me able to put my life back together and thrive. I went from being homeless at one point to now owning a home, having a nice vehicle, and making good money. Kratom does way more good than it harm's anyone and I fully believe that kratom is a miraculous plant that during the terrible opiate crisis that took so many lives that out in Indonesia there just so happened to be a natural growing tree that held a remedy which was 100 times better than MAT. If you don't have a good reason to be using kratom then by all means don't. Imagine the click bait that the title of this article could be used for to demonize kratom and enforce the propaganda.
How about some positive kratom stories for a change people?

[brave777]

Look yes kratom does cause withdrawals that's for sure, but they are much much milder than the withdrawals of any pharm drug and I don't think anyone who has ever went through withdrawals from pharms will disagree. Yes people should know that kratom will cause withdrawal symptoms when overused. I burn 7 to 8 grams 3 times a day and I have no problem going atleast 10 hours between burns. Kratom does way way more good and helps way more people than harm that it could ever do. Ballz point is that all of you are here as kratom users, but there is a crazy high rate of people putting out negative effect stories and that truly is not good for anyone. I'm not saying anyone should be censored, just saying if you think it's so bad why don't you taper down and quit. Kratom saved my life from a very serious 200mg a day oxycodone habit and I has made me able to put my life back together and thrive. I went from being homeless at one point to now owning a home, having a nice vehicle, and making good money. Kratom does way more good than it harm's anyone and I fully believe that kratom is a miraculous plant that during the terrible opiate crisis that took so many lives that out in Indonesia there just so happened to be a natural growing tree that held a remedy which was 100 times better than MAT. If you don't have a good reason to be using kratom then by all means don't. Imagine the click bait that the title of this article could be used for to demonize kratom and enforce the propaganda.
How about some positive kratom stories for a change people?

I agree, let the person decide how much they want to consume not FDA or some other agency that will put a limit 2 grams and penalty if you use more, Who says that not possible? All of us can agree 100% we dont want big greedys involved. I dont care even if you consume 100 grams a dose yout life, your choice. What Big agencys should do is just warn what you might experience at high dose with out proper taper, thats all. Nothing more.

[LeafersonJr32]

Agreed 100 percent brave. Also if you have used various substances for years then switch to kratom or even back and forth from kratom and other substances your brain took a shit ton of chemical altering that is going to take many many years to recover from and you must take that into account the kratom will help cover it up but then when you stop kratom the damage is still there.