Please comment on FDA Registry for the WHO kratom ban

[Rhino236]

https://www.federalregister.gov/documen ... n-narcotic

[WarmFoothills]

Be sure to follow the instructions from the AKA's latest email, for example, selecting proper identification:

In the section, “ What is your comment about?”, please select “ International Government - I0037.”

[Denette615]

Its my understanding that the WHO has no regulatory authority and therefore cannot schedule kratom. What the FDA is likely trying to do is to extract a recommendation to back up their crusade.

Im sure that there are 18 additional variables that many of us are not privy to at this point so all I can say that we need to double up on our advocacy efforts. Loud and proud people!

Anyone can feel free to correct me or disagree. Im sure its going to be a hot topic for a bit

D

[Slippy]

Its my understanding that the WHO has no regulatory authority and therefore cannot schedule kratom. What the FDA is likely trying to do is to extract a recommendation to back up their crusade.

Im sure that there are 18 additional variables that many of us are not privy to at this point so all I can say that we need to double up on our advocacy efforts. Loud and proud people!

Anyone can feel free to correct me or disagree. Im sure its going to be a hot topic for a bit

D

That is my understanding too. The fact that the FDA already rescinded their ban on Kratom tells me that it's most likely here to stay. In the USA at least.

[e_poison]

Its my understanding that the WHO has no regulatory authority and therefore cannot schedule kratom. What the FDA is likely trying to do is to extract a recommendation to back up their crusade.

Exactly, they just want more ammo in the fight to ban it. The WHO has no legal authority in the United States to schedule anything. All they can do is give advice and make recommendations. Even if the FDA gets what they're after here, it's still up to the DEA. Who will hold an open forum about it, like they did in 2016.

Nothing is going to happen overnight or most likely even relatively soon. Our govt moves at a glacial pace when it comes to literally anything. This gives us plenty of time to fight back and have our voices heard.

I also want to point out that kratom isn't the only thing listed for review. It's not being singled out. There's a whole list of various substances including phenibut.

[WarmFoothills]

Its my understanding that the WHO has no regulatory authority and therefore cannot schedule kratom. What the FDA is likely trying to do is to extract a recommendation to back up their crusade.

Exactly, they just want more ammo in the fight to ban it. The WHO has no legal authority in the United States to schedule anything. All they can do is give advice and make recommendations. Even if the FDA gets what they're after here, it's still up to the DEA. Who will hold an open forum about it, like they did in 2016.

Nothing is going to happen overnight or most likely even relatively soon. Our govt moves at a glacial pace when it comes to literally anything. This gives us plenty of time to fight back and have our voices heard.

I also want to point out that kratom isn't the only thing listed for review. It's not being singled out. There's a whole list of various substances including phenibut.

But it would be the WHO recommending a ban to the UN, under which 37 countries agree to international drug treaties, no? Still, my knowledge on this is very limited obviously so I don't know.

[Denette615]

Ive looked briefly into the UN treaties, but there still is no regulatory authority to schedule

[Rhino236]

But if the WHO do get their way can’t they stop Indonesia from exporting? I’m not too worried about it actually becoming illegal but I’m worried about the import and export of it. Honestly I’m not too well-versed on the WHO. So I’m not sure what the can and cannot do.

[Adrumaddict]

Regardless of what the FDA's plan is, or what The WHO is capable of we all need to send our testimonies, because we simply can't give one inch on this fight. What really concerns me is that the FDA has requested the testimonies and that makes me rather suspicious. Mac Haddow even seemed confused by this. If all of these testimonies are going through the FDA, what's to stop the them from cherry picking testimonies to mainly include negative ones, or even fabricate them to support their narrative? There's simply no way the FDA is honesty interested in our testimonies. The only other option I can think of is that the WHO requires that they do this. Regardless there needs to be some sort of way of checking the validity of the testimonies sent to the WHO. And Jesus I'm having a hard time refraining from making a "Who" joke.

[jdelamore76]

That is a really good point and is a big concern.
Nothing at all seems to be able to stop them from cherry picking comments to fit their narrative.We know this kind of stuff goes on all the time.
If only there was a way for some kind of advocacy group for Kratom.
Or an unbiased, separate entity that could oversee e/ electronic / comments and written comments sent to the FDA via mail.
I have no clue how this could be implemented. I guess IF the FDA does have an anti Kratom agenda we ain’t goin down without a fight. That goes for the WHO and everyone else.I read through the WHO announcement twice. I was 100% annoyed the first time I read it. Now, after reading it again I am 200% annoyed and in all seriousness losses off. I know nothing has happened yet but it could. And we can see that there are powerful people out there that want to take Kratom away from us. Whatever the reasons are I know that they have nothing to do with public safety. I’m def going to leave a comment. This is just to important to let fall by the waist side.

[DittonW]

Be sure to follow the instructions from the AKA's latest email, for example, selecting proper identification:

In the section, “ What is your comment about?”, please select “ International Government - I0037.”

where can I find the instructions from the aka email ?. I get AKA emails but I did not see that one

[WarmFoothills]

Be sure to follow the instructions from the AKA's latest email, for example, selecting proper identification:

In the section, “ What is your comment about?”, please select “ International Government - I0037.”

where can I find the instructions from the aka email ?. I get AKA emails but I did not see that one

Link here, please share!: https://d19cgyi5s8w5eh.cloudfront.net/u ... DrjU2OYzAg

[DittonW]

If all of these testimonies are going through the FDA, what's to stop the them from cherry picking testimonies to mainly include negative ones, or even fabricate them to support their narrative?

my apologies if I am double posting , I responded to this but didn't see my response in the thread.

If you read the details on The WHO (not Pete Townsend sadly) comment page they explain that every comment will be publicly posted and accessible to everyone . Thus they explain the complicated procedure involved if you want to make an anonymous comment . (mailing in a paper document explaining what you need made anonymous and why ) . From what I read it would be impossible to cherry pick the comments since they are all going to be public record.

[Babel-17]

Grrrf! I got an email from a vendor which was well intentioned but left out the part about about choosing "International Government - I0037" for the "about" field, and I entered one of the categories that had "drug" in its title.

I'll go see if I can make another entry. I'll edit this with a "success" if I can. I replied to the vendor right afterwards and told them about their omission. Hopefully they'll edit their email.

Edit: Success! Fast reply as well. They'd do well as a Kratom vendor, lol.

[Denette615]

The ignorance is rampant. The WHO better do their homework with respect to neurotransmission and function of different opiod receptor sites....talking about respiratory depression, etc. Verbiage straight from the FDA playbook of course.

I too share the concern about importing/exporting restrictions but Im doubtful it'll get to that point. Perhaps I am feeble minded but I cant wrap my head around the concept of restricting importation of a substance that is not scheduled and also can be considered for usage as something other than an ingestible item.

Nonetheless, as everyone here has identified....we need to be actively involved in the fight. Im confident we will persevere!

[mowgli]

Big thanks for posting this info with the FDA link. I submitted my comments this morning.

[Sanbutsushin]

I gave those folks a whole essay about the good kratom has done for me. Always happy to go to bat for such an amazing plant.

As said across the other handful of threads about this, and echoing statements above: please try not to panic. There's no need for that kind of stress at this stage. Just keep contributing your success stories wherever you can, that's all we can do.

[Aramella]

Maybe I am wrong but aren't we not supposed to discuss consuming kratom for pain or mood or because it helped you get off drugs or alcohol to vendors because of fear of it getting banned? What is to stop them from using all these comments people are sending in talking about exactly those things against us to BAN it? Maybe I'm just a "conspiracy theorist " person but I do not trust it. I have a feeling they will use all these comments against us to prove their agenda. Is that not what they put not for human consumption right on the label? Now they will just have a big complied list of people admitting to consuming it instead of taking the Big Pharma medications and further their agenda whatever it may be to get rid of it. The globalists would much rather have everyone back on stuff like suboxone that they can all profit off of? I dont want to make anyone mad or yell at me just throwing out another opinion is all.

[StringThing]

Maybe I am wrong but aren't we not supposed to discuss consuming kratom for pain or mood or because it helped you get off drugs or alcohol to vendors because of fear of it getting banned? What is to stop them from using all these comments people are sending in talking about exactly those things against us to BAN it? Maybe I'm just a "conspiracy theorist " person but I do not trust it. I have a feeling they will use all these comments against us to prove their agenda. Is that not what they put not for human consumption right on the label? Now they will just have a big complied list of people admitting to consuming it instead of taking the Big Pharma medications and further their agenda whatever it may be to get rid of it. The globalists would much rather have everyone back on stuff like suboxone that they can all profit off of? I dont want to make anyone mad or yell at me just throwing out another opinion is all.

"The globalists"

Yes, you are a conspiracy theorist.

What could the WHO possibly do with comments? You think they can't just look at posts online and come to similar conclusions? The nature of kratom is not exactly a secret, and the scope of their research goes well beyond anecdotal reports anyway. They do this for drugs all the time.

[mivanqua]

Maybe I am wrong but aren't we not supposed to discuss consuming kratom for pain or mood or because it helped you get off drugs or alcohol to vendors because of fear of it getting banned? What is to stop them from using all these comments people are sending in talking about exactly those things against us to BAN it? Maybe I'm just a "conspiracy theorist " person but I do not trust it. I have a feeling they will use all these comments against us to prove their agenda. Is that not what they put not for human consumption right on the label? Now they will just have a big complied list of people admitting to consuming it instead of taking the Big Pharma medications and further their agenda whatever it may be to get rid of it. The globalists would much rather have everyone back on stuff like suboxone that they can all profit off of? I dont want to make anyone mad or yell at me just throwing out another opinion is all.

"The globalists"

Yes, you are a conspiracy theorist.

What could the WHO possibly do with comments? You think they can't just look at posts online and come to similar conclusions? The nature of kratom is not exactly a secret, and the scope of their research goes well beyond anecdotal reports anyway. They do this for drugs all the time.

Problem is, even though it's bought and paid for by the "globalists" (that's the whole idea of the UN. ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT lite.) the world (for some fucked up reason) puts a lot of weight on what the UN/WHO says. If I've learned one thing from this whole COVID debacle, it's that it's NOT the elected ones you have to look out for. It's the UNELECTED members of these junk organizations who are rich and on a power trip (Gatesie is the perfect example of this. He holds 0 REAL power in any government, but he has MONEY AND LOTS OF IT to kickstart any cockamamie bullshit idea that floats into his transom, and he's likely bored as hell with very little to do most times, and you know what they say about idle hands, especially paired with literally LIMITLESS funds.) So...these are the monsters we have to dodge, the government types are sketchy, to be sure, but they are visible. These unelected assholes do what they want when they want with little to no overreach and no one to answer to.
As far as this post, I'm not sure how this is all going to pan out, but it ABSOLUTELY makes me wish they would do things to HELP THE MASSES with all of this money being spent trying to negatively spin fucking PLANTS! I'm bout over it.

[starshine]

Maybe I am wrong but aren't we not supposed to discuss consuming kratom for pain or mood or because it helped you get off drugs or alcohol to vendors because of fear of it getting banned? What is to stop them from using all these comments people are sending in talking about exactly those things against us to BAN it? Maybe I'm just a "conspiracy theorist " person but I do not trust it. I have a feeling they will use all these comments against us to prove their agenda. Is that not what they put not for human consumption right on the label? Now they will just have a big complied list of people admitting to consuming it instead of taking the Big Pharma medications and further their agenda whatever it may be to get rid of it. The globalists would much rather have everyone back on stuff like suboxone that they can all profit off of? I dont want to make anyone mad or yell at me just throwing out another opinion is all.

not quite hun. I might not be able to explain it as well as some others, but vendors themselves absolutely cannot discuss health benefits or make health claims because kratom is not an approved drug. if they do, it is illegal and they could get in trouble. as consumers, we can talk about anything we want in a neutral forum such as this one or non-vendor specific Facebook groups, etc. we aren't making health claims to customers or potential customers. we're sharing experiences amongst ourselves. and we don't sell it. we shouldn't talk about health benefits in vendor specific groups, because that can be seen as the vendors 'allowing' it and seen as making claims themselves by 'allowing' such statements to be posted on their websites, pages, or groups. hope that makes sense. I've found that the longer you're around, the more all this stuff sinks in lol. it can seem like at lot in the beginning.

[Sanbutsushin]

Maybe I am wrong but aren't we not supposed to discuss consuming kratom for pain or mood or because it helped you get off drugs or alcohol to vendors because of fear of it getting banned?

We're not supposed to talk about taking kratom for medical issues in the vendors' own chats or ask for medical advice from the vendors themselves because kratom is not currently regulated by the FDA and can't be sold as a consumable substance or medication (thus all the disclaimers you see like 'not meant for human consumption' and why vendors calm up if you ask them how to treat your condition - that's a liability thing). Individual vendors can end up in hot water if it's found that they're advertising and selling kratom specifically for medical use when they aren't medical professionals.

The WHO knows that people consume kratom, the FDA knows it, that was never a question. They don't think we're really out here making candles and incense out of it. We just talk that way in certain spaces to protect the vendors - on Double M I can say a certain batch was good for pain because vendors don't own this place, but it's a potential problem if I demand that vendors recommend their products to me based on pain-killing ability, or if I'm in their MeWe chats saying I take their product to treat [insert condition here].

Hope that clears it up a bit.

EDIT: Ah, Starshine beat me to it! Lol.

[Lokey]

I commented on it telling my short story, per requests posted in another group who posted the link. I had written my story once in response to a question and copied and texted it to myself so if I wanted to repost it I could just copy it.

[Lokey]

Grrrf! I got an email from a vendor which was well intentioned but left out the part about about choosing "International Government - I0037"

Edit: Success! Fast reply as well. They'd do well as a Kratom vendor, lol.

I think I also chose the wrong about section, I think I chose Advocacy Group but there was no choice I felt applied to me. Hope it doesn't matter too much, they got my story!

[StringThing]

Maybe I am wrong but aren't we not supposed to discuss consuming kratom for pain or mood or because it helped you get off drugs or alcohol to vendors because of fear of it getting banned?

We're not supposed to talk about taking kratom for medical issues in the vendors' own chats or ask for medical advice from the vendors themselves because kratom is not currently regulated by the FDA and can't be sold as a consumable substance or medication (thus all the disclaimers you see like 'not meant for human consumption' and why vendors calm up if you ask them how to treat your condition - that's a liability thing). Individual vendors can end up in hot water if it's found that they're advertising and selling kratom specifically for medical use when they aren't medical professionals.

The WHO knows that people consume kratom, the FDA knows it, that was never a question. They don't think we're really out here making candles and incense out of it. We just talk that way in certain spaces to protect the vendors - on Double M I can say a certain batch was good for pain because vendors don't own this place, but it's a potential problem if I demand that vendors recommend their products to me based on pain-killing ability, or if I'm in their MeWe chats saying I take their product to treat [insert condition here].

Hope that clears it up a bit.

EDIT: Ah, Starshine beat me to it! Lol.

It does not have to be approved or regulated to be sold as a consumable. This is how vendors get away with selling capsules and those little 5 hour energy looking bottles and brownies and all types of stuff. It falls under the category of 'dietary supplement'

Vendors DON'T do it because it's still kinda sketchy/unknown, and also it avoids getting sued if your customer gets hurt from your kratom. But mostly it's like the habit/culture of it from the days when the legality to do so was less certain.

The USDJ actually filed a complaint about it in May to try and get its status as a dietary supplement removed, effectively claiming that all kratom is 'contaminated' since it is not known to be safe for consumption.

https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-a ... ing-kratom

[Sanbutsushin]

Appreciate the correction, thank you!

[Vipercuda69]

Ive looked briefly into the UN treaties, but there still is no regulatory authority to schedule

I’m not sure how to interpret this. It seems the WHO does have extraordinary power through the WHA and Conventions. This document is difficult for me to understand. Maybe someone could comment to help clarify. But it would appear that in a roundabout way, they actually could Schedule kratom globally. It doesn’t mean they will. However, the following excerpt from the document caught my attention and is a bit concerning. I’d be curious to hear what others think.

Furthermore, the Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs and the Convention on Psychotropic Substances entrust WHO with the responsibility of reviewing and assessing substances to determine whether they should be controlled under the conventions. A request for such a review can be initiated by parties to the conventions or by WHO itself. WHO’s review of selected substances is carried out by the WHO Expert Committee on Drug Dependence. The Expert Committee’s functions are to review information available on the substances being considered for international control or exemption, and for which the level of control has to be changed, and to advise the Director‐General of WHO accordingly. WHO forwards the results of this review to the Commission on Narcotic Drugs which has the responsibility to decide whether to schedule substances under the provisions of the conventions.

WHO drug role mandate
https://www.who.int/substance_abuse/pub ... andate.pdf

[PistolsAtDawn]

Regardless of what the FDA's plan is, or what The WHO is capable of we all need to send our testimonies, because we simply can't give one inch on this fight. What really concerns me is that the FDA has requested the testimonies and that makes me rather suspicious. Mac Haddow even seemed confused by this. If all of these testimonies are going through the FDA, what's to stop the them from cherry picking testimonies to mainly include negative ones, or even fabricate them to support their narrative? There's simply no way the FDA is honesty interested in our testimonies. The only other option I can think of is that the WHO requires that they do this. Regardless there needs to be some sort of way of checking the validity of the testimonies sent to the WHO. And Jesus I'm having a hard time refraining from making a "Who" joke.

So what you're saying is that we Won't Get Fooled Again?

[Vipercuda69]

Regardless of what the FDA's plan is, or what The WHO is capable of we all need to send our testimonies, because we simply can't give one inch on this fight. What really concerns me is that the FDA has requested the testimonies and that makes me rather suspicious. Mac Haddow even seemed confused by this. If all of these testimonies are going through the FDA, what's to stop the them from cherry picking testimonies to mainly include negative ones, or even fabricate them to support their narrative? There's simply no way the FDA is honesty interested in our testimonies. The only other option I can think of is that the WHO requires that they do this. Regardless there needs to be some sort of way of checking the validity of the testimonies sent to the WHO. And Jesus I'm having a hard time refraining from making a "Who" joke.

So what you're saying is that we Won't Get Fooled Again?

I see what you did there.

[PistolsAtDawn]

Regardless of what the FDA's plan is, or what The WHO is capable of we all need to send our testimonies, because we simply can't give one inch on this fight. What really concerns me is that the FDA has requested the testimonies and that makes me rather suspicious. Mac Haddow even seemed confused by this. If all of these testimonies are going through the FDA, what's to stop the them from cherry picking testimonies to mainly include negative ones, or even fabricate them to support their narrative? There's simply no way the FDA is honesty interested in our testimonies. The only other option I can think of is that the WHO requires that they do this. Regardless there needs to be some sort of way of checking the validity of the testimonies sent to the WHO. And Jesus I'm having a hard time refraining from making a "Who" joke.

So what you're saying is that we Won't Get Fooled Again?

I see what you did there.

Couldn't help myself.

[ba2000]

So what you're saying is that we Won't Get Fooled Again?

I see what you did there.

Couldn't help myself.

Underappreciated.

[Adrumaddict]

Regardless of what the FDA's plan is, or what The WHO is capable of we all need to send our testimonies, because we simply can't give one inch on this fight. What really concerns me is that the FDA has requested the testimonies and that makes me rather suspicious. Mac Haddow even seemed confused by this. If all of these testimonies are going through the FDA, what's to stop the them from cherry picking testimonies to mainly include negative ones, or even fabricate them to support their narrative? There's simply no way the FDA is honesty interested in our testimonies. The only other option I can think of is that the WHO requires that they do this. Regardless there needs to be some sort of way of checking the validity of the testimonies sent to the WHO. And Jesus I'm having a hard time refraining from making a "Who" joke.

So what you're saying is that we Won't Get Fooled Again?

Ahhh yes, thank you!