Herbal RVA - also have a bad batch

[bovineblitz]

I wasn't planning on making a review, but the other thread where this was being discussed was locked (viewtopic.php?f=17&t=931). Below describes my issues with a couple batches of RVA kratom.

I ordered a kilo from RVA in June based entirely on reputation. Half was the Royal Bent, quarter Zareena, quarter Gold MD. I started really taking them a few weeks later, and at the same time I was feeling quite bad. Not quite nausea but stomach discomfort, fatigue, headaches, *ahem* other gastrointestinal problems... I felt like I had the flu, I did little but lie down and go back and forth to the bathroom. I started eating more yogurt, ate more fiber, made sure I was being active, was careful about my diet... tried lots of things. It was getting bad enough that it was affecting my work, and I was getting worried that something serious was wrong with me and I'd wind up in the hospital. After a couple weeks of feeling this way non-stop I suspected that kratom was my issue.

As a first step to eliminate variables, I made *all* my kratom with boiling water. This was and is my typical method (I like to first make a tea, then mix in some cocoa powder then chocolate almond milk), but I sometimes did toss n wash which could allow for bacterial contamination which would explain the gastrointestinal issues. This didn't solve the problem.

Next I stopped mixing strains as I usually do. Over the course of a week or so of sticking to just one strain at a time, I discovered that the RVA Royal Bentuangie was the culprit. If I took this kratom, I'd feel godawful in basically every possible way. I confirmed this twice after the discovery, and couldn't bring myself to take any more of it for another confirmation. In the next week or so I realized that the Red Zareena also made me feel bad, but not quite as disastrously so as the Royal Bent. My partner was taking kratom alongside me this whole time and after I figured out that these two strains didn't agree with me, she started taking a lot more of them since we were (and still generally are) of the mindset that sometimes one just doesn't agree with a person. Well, it made her feel ill in the same ways I did. She seems to be a bit less sensitive to it than I was, but once she increased her intake of these two strains she felt sick for a couple days and then, like me, tested to figure out that it was this specific kratom. It wasn't quite as severe as my reaction, but still, gastrointestinal distress and headaches are no fun.

Since someone chimed in with "the product is bunk" in the other thread, I will refute that. The product felt like kratom, it's just all of this other stuff came with it.

Now, given some of the doubt I never got a chance to respond to in the other thread, I'll give some personal background on my kratom use. I have stock from Socal, Gaia (pre-ban scare, the good stuff), ANA, KOG, some smaller email only vendors, and have made a few trades. I typically buy 1-5 kilos and I like variety. I take it every evening, 4-10 grams, and sometimes have 0.5-1.0g in the morning (maybe twice a week). I have experience with at *least* three dozen different strains of kratom and over a dozen extracts and resins. The only thing I've had a negative response to in the past was a concentrated product that didn't agree with me, it made me feel anxiety which was kinda weird. I wrote that off as a one-off issue. Other than that, I've never experienced any real issues, just your basic wobbliness from taking too much.

So why am I not writing *this* off as a one-off issue? I probably would, except that 1) it was two strains that both caused the same type of sickness effects, albeit at differing intensities 2) I tested quite thoroughly to be sure there wasn't another variable at play 3) it wasn't just me who reacted that way, and 4) someone posted an identical reaction to product from the same vendor, and it's not a reaction I've seen described before. Full-on flu is a pretty specific and severe reaction.

Batch:

I don't have the Zareena bag anymore, I'll see if I can dig up a pic of the bag but I don't know if I have one.

I emailed RVA mid-late September to ask whether anyone else had complained, briefly describing my issue. RVA responded saying that no problems were reported, and they'd be happy to take the unopened bag back which was a nice offer but I didn't do so since it's ~$15 of product and shipping it back would be six or seven bucks (I didn't ask about having them pay for return shipping, that seems petty to me for such a small amount of product). I'll share the body of my outgoing email but not the response since I feel that sharing emails without permission is a bit rude. I'm not complaining about the service, it was perfectly fine.



To answer another question as to why I'm making a whole review to share this - typically I wouldn't do such a thing, but I was accused of being some sort of shill, presumably because I'm not active on this forum (I am elsewhere with this handle, plus I made this account back in August and just didn't post until recently) and because I didn't respond to the other thread for a couple days (which IMO shouldn't surprise anyone on a mostly inactive forum, but that's just my take). My plan was to continue the discussion with more details (batch number, answer any questions about how I figured out what the issue was, give more info about contacting the vendor, etc.) which I feel would have been more appropriate in that thread, but I guess this new thread will have to do since the other one was nuked. I'm concerned that it was shut down with the logic of "if there were real issues then we'd see complaints", yet when you see multiple complaints describing a similar reaction, the thread gets locked... there's a dissonance there. Perhaps it's a symptom of a small community, but I strongly feel that the thread was nuked way too quickly. Not to mention, assuming people with negative experiences are the equivalent of darknet vendor saboteurs isn't exactly a great way to endear people to the community (and now I have some questions about how information flows through the community in general). I don't think we should have to tiptoe around peoples' feelings, I shouldn't have to emphasize repeatedly that complaining makes me uncomfortable to be allowed to share a complaint or concern.

Ultimately I'm out 3/4 of an ~$80 order, which isn't the end of the world, but the illness was far worse than the monetary aspect. I had said I wouldn't order from this vendor again, and I certainly will not - SOMETHING is super wrong with the kratom, that was not a normal experience. If someone wants to get it tested, let me know. For the record I've tried to trade the unopened bag on MeWe, no bites.

[whiffypants]

Thank you for your detailed post, and for finally addressing in a straightforward, factual manner the questions/concerns that were politely put to you in the other thread.

I especially appreciate that you included strain names (even pics with batch numbers!), dates, and as much detail as you remember. That not only substantiates your claim, it also allows others who come behind you to evaluate their own experiences in contrast with your own in order to make better buying choices. In this case you contacted the vendor, but if you had not, then this level of detail also allows the vendor to do checking on his/her end. They don't want their customers getting sick any more than you wanted to get sick yourself.

I'm really glad you started a separate thread and took the challenge seriously, because this is exactly the kind of detail oriented, fact-filled negative vendor/product review that people find helpful, especially months from now when some time has passed and maybe someone else is doing a search for these exact strains. This will really help them out. Thanks again.

[acejestyr15]

I still have a little bit of royal from that very same batch and obviously since there's only a little left I had no problems with the product. Some kratom just does not agree with certain people sometimes.... I definitely have some that I have experienced the very same thing with. But, like I said just to put it out there I do still have some and have enjoyed that very same batch number of Royal Bentuangie!

[whiffypants]

Thanks, Ace. Very few people have had problems with Zareena -- in fact I don't recall anyone other than this -- but numerous people have problems with bents because of the fermentation.

Sometimes that's just one strain, sometimes that's all bents, and it can be hard to tell what's causing it, especially if that person is -really- sensitive and there's been some cross-contamination between strains (on a scale or weighing cup, for example). Boiling isn't going to remove the byproducts of fermentation in the leaf, it only kills the microbes (if present) and thus boiling changes nothing if the user is simply reacting physically to a chemical component in the bent.

I have to say, though, that for myself I just don't believe this reviewer. I'm leaving the review here so that others can make up their own minds, but there was an associated Reddit thread that OP started as well, and between that and this I have developed very serious doubts about his/her claims.

I tend to take bad reviews involving sickness VERY seriously -- I even stickied the one linked above to make sure others saw it when it was first posted -- because no one wants to get sick or stand idly by if there's a bad batch going around. But this one... no. I can believe he/she had a reaction to bents, but I don't believe the above as written.

My disbelief is mostly based in this user's behavior and inconsistent statements, along with his/her refusal to remain fact-based in discourse. But mainly, when it comes right down to it, he/she never wrote a post in either place that was not an attack on someone or something, along with plenty of -demonstrably- false accusations to bolster each one -- including the above review.

It seems to me now that whatever actual sickness took place in reality for OP has come in a distant second to playing out the part of victim here.

Like I said, I'm leaving this up so that others can make up their own minds, but before they take it at face value I sincerely hope they read the other thread linked above, use the profile feature to read this user's other posts, and use the search function here and on Reddit to check out this person's character and specific claims of mistreatment.

Once they've done that I'm pretty sure they'll write this off just as I have.

[Psilocyberdemon]

I bought some white elephant 8/20 from rva that someone said made them sick. I thought if I sterilized it with hot water it’d be fine, but no. Very strange effects at first, then a slowly progressing headache throughout the day. Felt like I was getting sick. Came to the conclusion that it was either mold or was cut with something that didn’t agree with me. Not sure what to do with it, but might look into getting it tested because I’m curious. One bad batch out of 20 is fine with me I’ll eat apples with worms in them knowing they aren’t sprayed with roundup or some crap.
It’s not hard to believe that a package has an opening somewhere and gets a little moist unbeknownst to the vendor, and mold develops in a small area that only affects a few orders of that product. Or the package itself might have a very small leak that can only be from a manufacturing defect. I’ll take the pure product over preservatives any day

[pray4peace4]

RVA is my fav vendor. I have, in the last 2 days, developed a bad reaction to my favorite strain, PMD. Headache, dizziness, feel like absolute crap, like it's the wobbles. Can't be that because I just dropped down to 1 g doses 6 days ago. But...and this is important... my son uses it, too, & he doesn't have any bad reaction to it. So the problem is inside of me. Plus I've been working on this same kilo for about a month without problems till now. I drop my powder into boiling water because I once got severely sick from a batch of Kraken kratom years ago.

Anyways, the comment about swallowing leaves picked from wild trees growing in a rain forest next to a big river kinda puts this in perspective. This isn't a carefully farmed product. It doesn't come with any guarantees. The vendors don't have the resources to test each kilo nor package for the 1000s of contaminants that might appear. It's buyer beware. We all know that. Maybe whiffy could start a plantation & fast-ship fresh leaves, guaranteed organic. I'd buy 'em!

[whiffypants]

It’s not hard to believe that a package has an opening somewhere and gets a little moist unbeknownst to the vendor, and mold develops in a small area that only affects a few orders of that product. Or the package itself might have a very small leak that can only be from a manufacturing defect.

Yes, and factor in that it gets packaged, divided, and repackaged in multiple places: the Indo farmer, the Indo distributor, the US vendor at a minimum. And that's even before you factor in airborne spores that come in every time you open a bag: mold spores are -everywhere-, and if there's any dampness at all in a dark, sealed kratom bag they can grow a bit. So none of that is hard to believe, instead it's quite plausible. Ballz made an excellent point about this same thing in another thread, explaining why "inexpensive" testing of a few grams from a 2000 kilo import is completely useless. It doesn't mean a thing unless you test it all.

Speaking of which, if you do test it, let us know what you get. I'd definitely be interested in seeing your results, good or bad, and so would others here.

Anyways, the comment about swallowing leaves picked from wild trees growing in a rain forest next to a big river kinda puts this in perspective. This isn't a carefully farmed product. It doesn't come with any guarantees. The vendors don't have the resources to test each kilo nor package for the 1000s of contaminants that might appear. It's buyer beware. We all know that.

Yep. Well said. For all I know, my next dose could make me sick too. But honestly, kratom gives me so much in terms of quality of living that I take my chances -- and probably still would even if I got sick from it. For me it's the difference between being achy and sore 24/7 and actually getting out, being active, and being a productive member of society. I know the risks, I know they exist, I've weighed them for myself, and that's what I conclude every time: for me, I take the precautions I can take, and my chances too.

Maybe whiffy could start a plantation & fast-ship fresh leaves, guaranteed organic. I'd buy 'em!

Heh! I'll be lucky if I don't manage to kill the one tree I've got.

I think everyone who has a green thumb -- or is willing to try -- should take a crack at growing kratom as a houseplant, and make them common, ubiquitous if that's possible. Wouldn't that be great!

[magnifisense]

What inconsistent statements did the reviewer make?

[livi2fly]

OP, if you still have that unopened bag of Royal Bent and you want to send it my way I'll be happy to test it and see if it really is bad. It may just be your reaction to it but I'll be happy to test it!

[Transformato]

Something went wrong and that calls on effort to transform it. Calls on YOU to problem solve, not problem aggravate.
It will be surprisingly easy to fix (use A LOT less, no less than that to acclimate - I mean Blend!
Take a break too and listen to your body for fucks sake. Break it up- do you eat the same thing, same amount day in and day out?
Then why do it with kratom. Itś foolish. Itś the reason agencies are right to believe they have to regulate everything.
Responsibility- Respond

and it did not need to appear here. Validate your fears and at home in private please.
Unlike a screaming tabloid headline. ::: ANOTHER (!) Bad (so bad) BeeAtch :::

Many might be better off sourcing from Happy Hippo or similar. Expensive yes. But all balanced out blends that you don´t need to blend and balance to your needs so much if you have sensitivities as I do- and its very good.
No Iḿ not an affiliate. Rva, Mystic & Kog are my primary sources. I opted to use my ingenuity to take offenders and adjust them- come up with even better.

We need to realize that everyone here is trained as a modern day consumer, and the consumer is also the product.

Botanicals are an opportunity to start thinking differently.. We need to because a lot of assumptions are made
and learning opportunities neglected, often so they don interfere with being ¨right¨.

Ok the consensus would have us neglect all but two alkaloids in the plant. Because they fit the controversy and work like something they already know.
Its as negligent as fat dosing kratom or anything else while your body is warning of toxic buildup.Would you also feed a soda pop habit while your body is feeling achy or other cold like symptoms. Youŕe a fool if you do.

Body toxins. Shoveling more material for your body to process and hoist out is work that could be cleansing toxins so they dont defeat or weaken the immune system. Kratom apparently helps but it doesn take much. Much more and you are being as counter productive as this post headline. That was bad form and potentially damaging to all of us indirectly.

The other post - Yellow Hulu IF I took that straight up AS my complet dose I´d probably pass out or get very fatigued or sick. Who straight doses yellow?
Itś live and learn and please do- learn and apply that. You buy- its ON YOU Figure it out. Nobody is entitled. If you can afford to lose access then you are out of line and please do something else. Recreational MJ perhaps is better suited.

Some of us have A LOT on the line with this legality battle so if you are not impaired otherwise, there is a level of respect that you likely fail to reach.
And in that case- please use something that has a corporate 1800 # and a team of lawyers or shut the f up

I don think I have ever been so blunt but it needed to be said and if that costs me oh well. No regrets.

[whiffypants]

Thank you, Transformato. AWESOME post. That is -exactly- how I feel about it too.

[Kunlong]

Sounds more like roundup than salmonella and its no surprise. They just picked off sprayed bushes.

[beathappening]

I don think I have ever been so blunt but it needed to be said and if that costs me oh well. No regrets.

No, this post is definitely welcome. Would be nice to see more like it. Thank you!

[Brad frerichs]

I just received some red elephant and some red jong. I wouldn’t really consider these 2 from a bad batch, but they sure do taste funny to me. Both have very mild effects as well. I ordered a kilo a few days ago as well so not really looking forward to what I’m about to get lol. I’ll hope for the best, I ordered all reds.

[Bigblind]

I've talked to him and there was a small batch problem it has been handled..i went ahead and placed an order ill tell you how it goes.

[The_Kraken]

I've talked to him and there was a small batch problem it has been handled..i went ahead and placed an order ill tell you how it goes.

Any batch numbers for this problem? I ordered some stuff a few days ago...

[Brad frerichs]

Well the red jong Kong, and the red elephant I got a few days ago is batch number, 110118 on both and there both have a really funny and nasty taste with very old effects! I woukd like to know which batch number as well.

[Brad frerichs]

Very mild that is lol

[Brad frerichs]

Just spoke with him and he thinks there speaking of a yellow strain maybe yellow Hulu? I forgot already lol anyhow jfish told me the darker reds will have a fermented taste? The time is 8:47pm central time here not sure where he’s located but none less it’s preety cool he awnsered this late on Sunday!

[KurtisCards]

I got yellow hulu a while.ago, and it was just okay, don't really feel too much from it though.

[Brad frerichs]

My experience is rva has really good leaf and then no so good leaf but I would think most vendors that sell as much kratom as he does experiences the same thing.

[whiffypants]

My experience is rva has really good leaf and then no so good leaf but I would think most vendors that sell as much kratom as he does experiences the same thing.

Good observation, and that's been my own experience, definitely. Every single vendor I've bought from has had strains of varying quality and potency, but very rarely is it without any effect at all. I've also had a strain here and there that made me mildly queasy, but that's the nature of kratom -- and also why so many of us love ginger chews.

[Brad frerichs]

Just got some red jongkong in and I think it’s terrible and has a horrible taste anyhow I gave the 100 gram bad to my friend and he loves it. Just another example of the different body chemistry I guess you could say lol

[dezdigital]

I ordered from RVA for the first time last week and couldn't be happier. Red Bali is amazing, Green Hulu excellent, Yellow Indo and Royal Bent also good. Have another split kilo arriving today, can't wait to bust into it tonight.

[Voyaging]

I've been using Herbal-RVA exclusively for years now and have not had the same experience. In fact, this particular Royal Bentuangie batch was my go-to for months and I used extremely large doses of it on a daily basis (upwards of 100g/day) and had virtually no ill effects. In fact, that's the reason it was my favorite, because large doses didn't produce the wobbly sickness side effects that most other strains do for me.

Proof of use:




Just thought I'd mention it, as from my experience it's certainly not a bad batch. I've bought probably 10+ kilos from this specific batch (as well as several other batches of the Royal Bentuangie) with no issues. So it likely is either an issue with the specific, very small portion of the batch you were sent, or is (more likely IMO) just a unique biological response to it. I have certainly had awful responses to certain batches of kratom, most notably many greens produce extreme dizziness for me even in low doses. I think it's just personal biology.

[DrMe]

Does anyone know anything about the batch of royal Bentuangie that's available now? I've been wanting to try it and was planning to get some this weekend but then I saw this thread. Now I don't know whether I should get it

[BallzDeep9]

I've been using Herbal-RVA exclusively for years now ... In fact, this particular Royal Bentuangie batch was my go-to for months and I used extremely large doses of it on a daily basis (upwards of 100g/day) and had virtually no ill effects.

Holy COW! Yowzaa 100g per day? Thats one helluva testimonial.

No Judgement Zone. "Everybody's Different" I am aware that some users.. those with a very high Tolerance.. need Mega doses of kratom to feel it much. I have introduced good kratom to friends, at High dose amounts (for me) and they only shrug and say hmm whatever. I think maybe I feel something? a little? lol

Royal Bentuangie IS stocked by a very few other vendors.. Liza's Botanicals carrys it.

[brave777]

I got RED ZARENA,250G Batch # 112217 which i am sure you had same one since you dont have your bag? if i understand correctly, if something got you sick why would you use it up and trow the bag away, you only got royal bent picture up. Back to red Zarena, i got about 60 g left in the bag and i am saving it for the better days sinces its my favorite. I honestly think since it was you and your partner who got sick, that it might be in house food poison or something... I enjoyed this red zarena after work a lot, and wish i had more....

[cheddarbear]

Holy shit 100g?!!!!

[FuckHeroin]

Holy shit 100g?!!!!

Ive been worrying lately about my 20grams a day. I feel much better now. Hell i might even up it to 25g by the end of the night. Lol

[beathappening]

Holy shit 100g?!!!!

Ive been worrying lately about my 20grams a day. I feel much better now. Hell i might even up it to 25g by the end of the night. Lol

I was at 30+ for awhile. Chronic all day wobbles.

[cheddarbear]

Like I can’t even imagine swallowing that much. I’ve probably taken at the most about 2 tablespoons at once, and that was a struggle to get down.