On to something...all read please

[MagPie]

https://www.reddit.com/r/RecreationalKr ... urce=share

Everyone here should look into this...im always scrounging around hunting for answers...even tho I knew nothing prior to this leaf. Hope this helps.
Excuse my bad online presence...
If im not sharing this correctly...it is on reddit/recreationalkratom
BTW...i still don't know much. But I know that this experiment I stumbled into being resourceful early one morning did the trick...without any crash or highs and lows!

I did not mean to put this on trading post...tried to delete.

[Mossy7]

Who the heck has time for all that. I know I don’t. Nor do I have the patience. I’m happy with my powder and water or tea. But if someone takes the time to go through all of this I’m curious to see what is said.

[GreatIAm33]

https://www.reddit.com/r/RecreationalKr ... urce=share

Everyone here should look into this...im always scrounging around hunting for answers...even tho I knew nothing prior to this leaf. Hope this helps.
Excuse my bad online presence...
If im not sharing this correctly...it is on reddit/recreationalkratom
BTW...i still don't know much. But I know that this experiment I stumbled into being resourceful early one morning did the trick...without any crash or highs and lows!

I did not mean to put this on trading post...tried to delete.

That actually seems really interesting. I think I may give it a shot. I've been interested in finding a way to consume less plant matter, while retaining as much of the alkaloids as possible

[onespeedstop]

Who the heck has time for all that. I know I don’t. Nor do I have the patience. I’m happy with my powder and water or tea. But if someone takes the time to go through all of this I’m curious to see what is said.

^ What they said. I mean if I want something stronger than kratom, other things exist, so why would I waste all that time trying to make something that is by it's very nature weak, into something that it just isn't meant to be. But hey, if you've got the energy/time/patience for all that, have at it, free country/world or whatever, and best of luck. I'd be nervous I'd poison myself somehow, or ruin some perfectly good kratom, but that's just me, I'm not a super great cook to begin with.

[DittonW]

I think that it's a really interesting idea and I am glad to have my attention was directed toward it . My initial thoughts are that; if the process is meant to produce more Mitragynine pseudoindoxyl, a more potent opioid , then it's going in a different direction from what I appreciate and find beneficial from kratom.

I spent a lot of time with more potent opioids and it didn't turn out well.

[IndelibleDotInk]

Thanks for the info, really interesting!

[fusedflora]

Interesting theory, however, alcohol and other components would oxidize into ketones, acids, and hydes well before the oxindole into mitragynine unfortunately. I think this is a very interesting extraction of the alks, but not much more without further steps. It is a good read.

edit - ketones, acids, and hydes

The first hole I would see in this, is that the heavy metals in kratom would likely react with hydrogen peroxide. Lead typically catalyzes the decomposition of Hydrogen peroxide immediately, and most know that the metals in kratom are a bit above average amongst leafy things. He/she's right that the reaction could produce oxindoles, but there's easier reactions amongst the other components. The metals would likely oxidize first, leaving not so nice byproducts.

There's no shortage of studies trying to convert mitragynine. In vitro, none have efficiently (like something you could recreate at home easily) converted mitra to 7ohm or mitragynine pseudoindoxyl. However, in almost every study with mitragynine, one can see how alcohol and peroxides (ferment and oxidize) are used to extract the mitragynine from the plant matter. In each example, additional extraction methods are used to remove harmful byproducts (ie heat to evaporate the alcohol etc..). Alone, without other catalysts and reactions, Hydrogen peroxide is not an applicable pathway as the bonds of other materials and alks are weaker and would convert easier https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Pro ... _272241282. It could work, but would need many other reactions first. If the mitragynine was isolated, perhaps this would work, but one would still need to get rid of quite a few other things. The body doesn't use any alcohol or peroxide to do the conversion and is the most efficient means currently known. The hydrogen peroxide in this case is actually enough to cause a myriad of chemical reactions amongst all the alkaloids in kratom, much of which aren't studied, not to mention whatever else could be in your system or heavy metals in the plant matter. I would not make a claim "not enough to make you sick," as that assumes no other variables, but most kratom users have a medicine cabinet. If one did filter the metals, peroxide when mixed with alkaloids typically creates a slew of acids different methanol/ethanols, and oxygen radicals. None of which are particularly helpful to the body. Unless a deliberate process to remove the byproducts of the peroxide reaction, this would not be safe at all.

I'm with Ditton though, someone is chasing something attempting this, and the risk from getting it wrong is too high. Even if the process worked, having that much potency is likely more harm to the community as a whole and it could create a lot of issues for the body if all the 1.5% of mitragynine in a serving is converted to mitragynine pseudoindoxyl. I can see our beloved leaf facing much scrutiny going down that trail.

edit2 - The optics would be bad on this either way. So say someone has severe adverse reaction to drinking hydrogen peroxide, or they OD because now the 1.5% mitragynine is 100x more potent (35x more potent than morphine), either way, the FDA, news/media, mom and dad, etc. blame it on kratom and not the hydrogen peroxide mix. I don't think that's something anyone needs.

[Luvndpeace]

LMAO mossy! It took me months of debating to go through the tea process... It is definitely interesting though!

[BallzDeep9]

There is so much we don’t know about Kratom, and I have a feeling that yeast fermentation and oxidation is only just the beginning. There has to be a combination that results in maximum oxidation of the indole Mitragynine.

I only have two years of college chemistry courses. I was trying figure out how to oxidize Kratom without the need for a synthetic catalyst or a fuel source. Oxidation won’t occur unless there is fuel to continue the reaction. After smoking a joint, I had the random idea ...

Didn't we already try "fermentation and oxidation" already ?? It's called Red Vein kratom... which is fake, leaves are not sorted by Vein. Red color kratom is actually created by leaves fermented in plastic bags... aka Bentuangie. And/ Or oxidized by drying in the hot sun. Red color fermented, outdoor tarp dried kratom... is low potency, and weak, compared to carefully Indoor dried, a more expensive process that preserves alkaloids and produces Super Green type powder.

Oxidation? he's got an interesting Theory, after smoking a joint there but... I thought we'd already reached a consensus in the community , that (1) oxidized Tarp dried leaf = Weak leaf, and... (2) the old idea about oxidizing to elevate 7-OH, has been superceded by more recent studies which show that Mitragynine is converted into 7-OH-mitragynine by CYP3A4 in the liver... Not oxidized on a tarp. We need someone who actually finished college with an Organic Chemistry degree, to evaluate his hypothesis. Taking a shot of extract and declaring it the bee's knees, isn't really the best way to uncover some new ground breaking Revelation?

We've already got basically 2 valid Tea making recipes: Red Bubble, which includes the sludge or sediment... and filtered Aeropress (or French Press) Tea. Both of these are simple, extract methods which are widely reported to be effective. However both require some effort, by consumers... Look around, many consumers won't take any steps to Prep their kratom. As we have discussed before - there's (1) Potentiation, and (2) Tolerance reduction. Both are useful concepts, but #2 doesn't get enough attention imo compared to all the posts we see about things like Turmeric and grapefruit juice.

[Jfish030]

I actually hope we dont find a way to make kratom super powerful. It will lead to the end of kratom. Its only going to take one death to put kratom on the news. Cant we all just take kratom as plain leaf powder and enjoy the product, weak or not. Its all kratom. Take a little more if your not getting effects, sprinkle in some extract occasionally. Keep it modest.

[Sanbutsushin]

I'm with Ditton though, someone is chasing something attempting this, and the risk from getting it wrong is too high. Even if the process worked, having that much potency is likely more harm to the community as a whole and it could create a lot of issues for the body if all the 1.5% of mitragynine in a serving is converted to mitragynine pseudoindoxyl. I can see our beloved leaf facing much scrutiny going down that trail.

edit2 - The optics would be bad on this either way. So say someone has severe adverse reaction to drinking hydrogen peroxide, or they OD because now the 1.5% mitragynine is 100x more potent (35x more potent than morphine), either way, the FDA, news/media, mom and dad, etc. blame it on kratom and not the hydrogen peroxide mix. I don't think that's something anyone needs.

Very important things to consider. When I first read the linked post I knew I wouldn't touch this experiment with a ten-foot pole, but this sums up exactly why more succinctly than I ever could.

[Kratomtoa]

Interesting read, I’m looking forward to seeing other people weigh in on their results. I wouldn’t use this on good kratom, but it could be a cool experiment with kratom that gives you weak effects. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it, right?

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again...drug users are some of the most inventive, laser focused, creative, intelligent people I’ve ever known (I’m including kratom in the category of drug for arguments sake, no one get offended!)

[fusedflora]

I actually hope we dont find a way to make kratom super powerful. It will lead to the end of kratom. Its only going to take one death to put kratom on the news. Cant we all just take kratom as plain leaf powder and enjoy the product, weak or not. Its all kratom. Take a little more if your not getting effects, sprinkle in some extract occasionally. Keep it modest.

I couldn't agree with you more. I recognize some need more than others, but refining the mitragynine to pseudoindoxyl.... just asking for all types of badness.

[MagPie]

Hey all! I'd like to say that my experience is not intended to recreate the pseudo drug..and it didn't do that anyways. I was only trying out all methods and tips I've found here mainly and few other places...with the Kambucha and a dash of baking soda added to my cup of coffee and extra brown sugar for taste. This I left on my coffee warm plate in a cool lil bowl I found that has a lid that holds heat/ pressure. It was left maybe 15 mins...drank and I felt a difference that showed great impact. I dose this and could feel the relief of pain and mood and energy for longest period yet. This was a stand out for me! I do not take even the time I should to figure all the methods I've read. I am sure for myself that the ferment of leaf had something to do with this result. I have been determined to make this leaf work for myself bc it allowed me to be self reliant again. I know it has potential and I also know that it is frustrating as hell! All the ways to make it work that are out here are trial and error and so many don't get results like others do...im a believer that a little does go a long way mainly bc the Kambucha subbed in for acid and heat and a small bit of baking soda added resulted for me in 5grams lasting all day. I had no bad effects. I've noticed early on that the tnw was dehydrating my body so bad even at not large doses and frequencies...ive done all I can think of to not have leaf suck my body dry...for me the Kambucha tea stayed in my mind. When I saw the post on reddit I was sure that there is a key in this...im not sure if the baking soda or extra sugar are needed..the baking soda does react when I add it to the leaf and Kambucha mix. It turns that brown/ oxidated color. If left on heat simmering it get red velvet and will stain any surface that I've touched it with. This is what I chose as the oxidating agent. The peroxide...honestly haven't done it yet bc I don't think I need it and I've stayed away from anything that doesn't seem good to ingest. If anyone has tips im all ears. I want to make it clear tho that I have not intentionally and am not ever trying to make something harmful for myself or others. I'm doing as everyone else...experimenting. I know that kambucho ferment had a great result for me personally. Look how many people are making tincture and oils from weed...there are common points with weed and kratom. If people are able to make all around great experiences with the leaf only using common steps and materials then I see this as progress. I also want to add in that the Kambucha only made me able to again have no side effects and allowed for my dose of only 5gms last long...that was how I knew this was different. Not anything alarming; but improved. Thank you all.

[Love_Redz]

Pruno-kratom with out the fruit contents lol sounds interesting but I’ll keep it simple

[gumbyke1]

There is so much we don’t know about Kratom, and I have a feeling that yeast fermentation and oxidation is only just the beginning. There has to be a combination that results in maximum oxidation of the indole Mitragynine.

I only have two years of college chemistry courses. I was trying figure out how to oxidize Kratom without the need for a synthetic catalyst or a fuel source. Oxidation won’t occur unless there is fuel to continue the reaction. After smoking a joint, I had the random idea ...

Didn't we already try "fermentation and oxidation" already ?? It's called Red Vein kratom... which is fake, leaves are not sorted by Vein. Red color kratom is actually created by leaves fermented in plastic bags... aka Bentuangie. And/ Or oxidized by drying in the hot sun. Red color fermented, outdoor tarp dried kratom... is low potency, and weak, compared to carefully Indoor dried, a more expensive process that preserves alkaloids and produces Super Green type powder.

Oxidation? he's got an interesting Theory, after smoking a joint there but... I thought we'd already reached a consensus in the community , that (1) oxidized Tarp dried leaf = Weak leaf, and... (2) the old idea about oxidizing to elevate 7-OH, has been superceded by more recent studies which show that Mitragynine is converted into 7-OH-mitragynine by CYP3A4 in the liver... Not oxidized on a tarp. We need someone who actually finished college with an Organic Chemistry degree, to evaluate his hypothesis. Taking a shot of extract and declaring it the bee's knees, isn't really the best way to uncover some new ground breaking Revelation?

We've already got basically 2 valid Tea making recipes: Red Bubble, which includes the sludge or sediment... and filtered Aeropress (or French Press) Tea. Both of these are simple, extract methods which are widely reported to be effective. However both require some effort, by consumers... Look around, many consumers won't take any steps to Prep their kratom. As we have discussed before - there's (1) Potentiation, and (2) Tolerance reduction. Both are useful concepts, but #2 doesn't get enough attention imo compared to all the posts we see about things like Turmeric and grapefruit juice.

This reminds me of a post I meant to make a long time ago on this subject.... I have just never gotten around to it. I have an email that I re-circulate to customers whenever they ask me about "bents"... Ill try to post it on the "Behind the Scenes" post this week (I hope nobody minds me recycling emails for the sake of being quick/efficient).

[mitragy9]

Giving this fermentation/oxidation a try and will post my results here tomorrow. So far the results look promising based on others reports using this method. I used 40 grams of two high mit kratom strains, going to be fermenting for 24 hours on a heating pad in the dark. Instead of shitting on this guys method saying it's complete hogwash why not try it for yourself first. It's also kinda funny people are making this a moral issue out of concern/fear.

[brassy]

@jfish030, thank you for your comment. I wholly agree that even if this dubious method was successful the potential it could create Oxycontin-grade crackdown (and more dependence in the Kratom community isn't worth the risk.

[ba2000]

Giving this fermentation/oxidation a try and will post my results here tomorrow. So far the results look promising based on others reports using this method. I used 40 grams of two high mit kratom strains, going to be fermenting for 24 hours on a heating pad in the dark. Instead of shitting on this guys method saying it's complete hogwash why not try it for yourself first. It's also kinda funny people are making this a moral issue out of concern/fear.

Any news? I've had my supplies on the counter waiting to hear peoples results since OP first posted the thread, lol

[mitragy9]

Giving this fermentation/oxidation a try and will post my results here tomorrow. So far the results look promising based on others reports using this method. I used 40 grams of two high mit kratom strains, going to be fermenting for 24 hours on a heating pad in the dark. Instead of shitting on this guys method saying it's complete hogwash why not try it for yourself first. It's also kinda funny people are making this a moral issue out of concern/fear.

Any news? I've had my supplies on the counter waiting to hear peoples results since OP first posted the thread, lol

lmao I forgot I posted this. Yes, I tried this and it does seem to spice things up but I think I fucked it up by over boiling it. I just recently found out 7-hydroxymitragynine degrades at 40°C so boiling for too long can easily fuck up the results of this. Sadly 7-OH is not as stable of a alkaloid as mitragynine. However the results were quite surprising and definitely noticeable but I doubt its oxidizing to mitragynine pseudoindoxyl, it was much warmer and significantly more sedating and analgesic, seemed to last longer as well. Definitely interesting and I will be messing around with this tek to further improve it I already have some ideas for the future.

Here's some pics of the entire process and results.

Beginning of 24hr fermentation just added yeast/sugar solution to 40 grams of potent green md kratom/water mixture:


The result of 24hr fermentation time on a heating pad, stirring every couple of hours(reeks of alcohol) I then added the hydrogen peroxide and stirred for 30-45mins.

Reduction/boiling begins(the part where I fucked up) followed by filtration of the plant material.


More reduction/boiling(dont boil to reduce use a food dehydrator to achieve this instead. Boil as little as possible to degrade the H202 or let sit for an extended period)


The end result!
40grams of potent GMD reduced down to 5 FL OZ resembling blood. One line is equivalent to around a 8 gram dose:


All in all I would say there's definitely something going on with the process and it does have a noticeable change to kratoms effects(even with my fuck up) I think with more tweaking this could be a pretty awesome way to potentiate or alter the effects of kratom. If pain relief and sedation is your goal this might be a worthwhile process for you to attempt.

[ba2000]

Giving this fermentation/oxidation a try and will post my results here tomorrow. So far the results look promising based on others reports using this method. I used 40 grams of two high mit kratom strains, going to be fermenting for 24 hours on a heating pad in the dark. Instead of shitting on this guys method saying it's complete hogwash why not try it for yourself first. It's also kinda funny people are making this a moral issue out of concern/fear.

Any news? I've had my supplies on the counter waiting to hear peoples results since OP first posted the thread, lol

All in all I would say there's definitely something going on with the process and it does have a noticeable change to kratoms effects(even with my fuck up) I think with more tweaking this could be a pretty awesome way to potentiate or alter the effects of kratom. If pain relief and sedation is your goal this might be a worthwhile process for you to attempt.

I've done this twice now. I made one batch (OG Green), then recycled the leaf with 10g kratom added (W/ OG White). I boiled for 2.5 mins both times and my pics would have been identical down to the chopsticks. The first time I tried the first batch was an amazing experience. Tasted like sour beer but felt amazing. Amazing. I couldn't stop smiling for four hours + amazing tingles. Second time, same batch? Almost nothing. Sleepy if anything. Second batch? Zero. Like I knew that I had dosed, but that was about it. I waited 10 days between doses and have a few more days before try two on the second batch. I strained twice but still had like, 1/3 volume pulp every time. I dosed 4g total each time liquid to equal 1.5g leaf. Oh, and effects were felt quick. Like 5-15 mins max. Edit 12: My wife (who tries K once in a while for migraines) tried the first one once and said it was a more suitable sub than powder or her pills (this is a great thing).

[IndelibleDotInk]

Updates?

[IndelibleDotInk]

bump.

[BallzDeep9]

I was only trying out all methods and tips I've found here mainly and few other places...with the Kombucha and a dash of baking soda added to my cup of coffee and extra brown sugar for taste. This I left on my coffee warm plate in a cool lil bowl I found that has a lid that holds heat/ pressure. It was left maybe 15 mins...drank and I felt a difference that showed great impact. I dose this and could feel the relief of pain and mood and energy for longest period yet. This was a stand out for me!

I'm doing as everyone else...experimenting. I know that Kombucha ferment had a great result for me personally.

Let's keep this going, Thank you for posting, this "Kratom Kombucha" thing has great potential . just makes sense, heat helps extract Mitra# alkaloids. I do buy a booch at store, now & then and it's also a home brew product that people are making & maybe the fermentation would boost or change Mitra alk effects somehow?

Also, Edibles should be explored more, idk why we're not seeing more Kratom Cookie recipe's since Mitra alkaloids are fat soluble seems like a no-brainer to consume in a butter cookie, shortbread type recipe... C'mon all you Toss n washers. Sugar cookie w/ butter and or coconut oil, yumm!

[brave777]

I am very tempted to try making some kratom cookies. i just dont know how it will turn out, perhaps going in blind and trying to make some with maybe ginger in it? I think it will be my next project when i get the time. I have not logged in, in long time on reddit, but had to dig out my kratom bread post https://www.reddit.com/r/kratom/comment ... 0_organic/ .

[kwest13]

interesting... bump

[IndelibleDotInk]

updates?

[BallzDeep9]

I am very tempted to try making some kratom cookies. i just dont know how it will turn out, perhaps going in blind ...

Me too. I'm getting there... looking at recipe's for like, a butter cookie, must be baked at LOW temperature. - I just ordered a silicone cake pan (Used for reducing liquid extract, down to dry powder, in the oven) AND also I have silicone cube trays. Might try those cube trays for a cookie batter!

[StringThing]

Interesting theory, however, alcohol and other components would oxidize into ketones, acids, and hydes well before the oxindole into mitragynine unfortunately. I think this is a very interesting extraction of the alks, but not much more without further steps. It is a good read.

edit - ketones, acids, and hydes

The first hole I would see in this, is that the heavy metals in kratom would likely react with hydrogen peroxide. Lead typically catalyzes the decomposition of Hydrogen peroxide immediately, and most know that the metals in kratom are a bit above average amongst leafy things. He/she's right that the reaction could produce oxindoles, but there's easier reactions amongst the other components. The metals would likely oxidize first, leaving not so nice byproducts.

There's no shortage of studies trying to convert mitragynine. In vitro, none have efficiently (like something you could recreate at home easily) converted mitra to 7ohm or mitragynine pseudoindoxyl. However, in almost every study with mitragynine, one can see how alcohol and peroxides (ferment and oxidize) are used to extract the mitragynine from the plant matter. In each example, additional extraction methods are used to remove harmful byproducts (ie heat to evaporate the alcohol etc..). Alone, without other catalysts and reactions, Hydrogen peroxide is not an applicable pathway as the bonds of other materials and alks are weaker and would convert easier https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Pro ... _272241282. It could work, but would need many other reactions first. If the mitragynine was isolated, perhaps this would work, but one would still need to get rid of quite a few other things. The body doesn't use any alcohol or peroxide to do the conversion and is the most efficient means currently known. The hydrogen peroxide in this case is actually enough to cause a myriad of chemical reactions amongst all the alkaloids in kratom, much of which aren't studied, not to mention whatever else could be in your system or heavy metals in the plant matter. I would not make a claim "not enough to make you sick," as that assumes no other variables, but most kratom users have a medicine cabinet. If one did filter the metals, peroxide when mixed with alkaloids typically creates a slew of acids different methanol/ethanols, and oxygen radicals. None of which are particularly helpful to the body. Unless a deliberate process to remove the byproducts of the peroxide reaction, this would not be safe at all.

I'm with Ditton though, someone is chasing something attempting this, and the risk from getting it wrong is too high. Even if the process worked, having that much potency is likely more harm to the community as a whole and it could create a lot of issues for the body if all the 1.5% of mitragynine in a serving is converted to mitragynine pseudoindoxyl. I can see our beloved leaf facing much scrutiny going down that trail.

edit2 - The optics would be bad on this either way. So say someone has severe adverse reaction to drinking hydrogen peroxide, or they OD because now the 1.5% mitragynine is 100x more potent (35x more potent than morphine), either way, the FDA, news/media, mom and dad, etc. blame it on kratom and not the hydrogen peroxide mix. I don't think that's something anyone needs.

This was really insightful. My first thought was that this was a bad idea without isolating the mitra gang, but I did not even consider the reaction of heavy metals. Wish I could thank it or like it or upvote or something lol.

Would not attempt this personally. People need to remember that this recipe was just written by some random dude online.

[puggrowth1]

Interesting theory, however, alcohol and other components would oxidize into ketones, acids, and hydes well before the oxindole into mitragynine unfortunately. I think this is a very interesting extraction of the alks, but not much more without further steps. It is a good read.


The first hole I would see in this, is that the heavy metals in kratom would likely react with hydrogen peroxide. Lead typically catalyzes the decomposition of Hydrogen peroxide immediately, and most know that the metals in kratom are a bit above average amongst leafy things. He/she's right that the reaction could produce oxindoles, but there's easier reactions amongst the other components. The metals would likely oxidize first, leaving not so nice byproducts.

Great info - as a drug nerd I love to see stuff like this about kratom. There really is a massive dearth of kratom related pharmacology/chemistry related studies, but sites like this fill that gap decently well.

[PistolsAtDawn]

I am very tempted to try making some kratom cookies. i just dont know how it will turn out, perhaps going in blind ...

Me too. I'm getting there... looking at recipe's for like, a butter cookie, must be baked at LOW temperature. - I just ordered a silicone cake pan (Used for reducing liquid extract, down to dry powder, in the oven) AND also I have silicone cube trays. Might try those cube trays for a cookie batter!

That's funny. Silicone baking / ice molds are currently in transit to me. I was planning on mixing some kratom with chocolate and pouring that mixture into the mold. Cookies sound enticing though. If you have a recipe, please share!

[AtticusFinch80]

I actually hope we dont find a way to make kratom super powerful. It will lead to the end of kratom. Its only going to take one death to put kratom on the news. Cant we all just take kratom as plain leaf powder and enjoy the product, weak or not. Its all kratom. Take a little more if your not getting effects, sprinkle in some extract occasionally. Keep it modest.

This right here

[IndelibleDotInk]

I'm surprised this topic hasn't been explored more.

[BlatePapes]

Yeah I agree that kratom shouldn't be grown like marijauana. Because increasing the strength of kratom is just asking for trouble.

About these extractions, the thing that gets me every time is that it takes too long to do. But that depends whether you care about getting as much alkaloids out of each powder dose as possible.. because it takes time.

In my experience, most people don't like waiting for results. People want it now. So people can buy extractions and take those, but then cost is a huge factor. So you really either have to give your time, (which is more valuable than money in my opinion), or give more money.

I'm not just saying this because we are a kratom ingestion method. This is how I personally feel, and one of the reasons we created our films.

Before that, I did OJ, toss n wash, bombed with TP, etc for years. But if there was an extraction method that costed little and took no time, shit I'd sell it too.

[Jking]

Dang this seems kinda familiar with people messing with opium, and we know how that ended. We got heroin, and countless powerful opioids from a rather benign substance opium causing widespread addiction, and pain never before experienced from just opium. I like the idea of making extracts but we don’t need to be changing the active ingredient to something else stronger, or more addictive. There’s already not enough research done on kratom; next thing you know someone has changed the molecular structure of the ingredients in kratom into the next heroin. Then they will outlaw it so quick to prevent people using it to make other stronger things. Might be interesting but ultimately pointless, and time consuming in my opinion. If you want to get higher we have better things than kratom.

[elbandito88]

Sounds to me like some people are chasing something that isn’t Kratom. We already have enough trouble trying to keep it legal.

I feel it should stay in its natural form, the way it’s intended.

[Joshgreenhorn]

I couldn't agree more!

[IndelibleDotInk]

I would still like to learn more.

[Tritonian214]

Seems like that may be overkill interested to hear if works