Direct from Indo?

[Badgame85]

So over the past few years I've dabbled with purchasing leaf direct from suppliers overseas. Haven't done this in a long time but I also bought a TON from suppliers a few years ago when the threat was incredibly high to have it banned here. I've had some pretty good experience with suppliers like Kratom Krumbs, VNLT, and Newgroz. However I've also ordered some total crap from suppliers like Green Harmony, Kratomind and Kratom Crazy.

So checking out the vendor listings, I saw that a company called Next Botanical is selling kilos for >$40. At that price I wonder what's the harm in trying. I've read and seen all the stuff that TFH posted about the "behind the scenes of the kratom industry" so I know there is risk for some nasty stuff to come my way.

Curious about others experiences doing this... if you have.

[BallzDeep9]

So over the past few years I've dabbled with purchasing leaf direct from suppliers overseas. Haven't done this in a long time but I also bought a TON from suppliers a few years ago when the threat was incredibly high to have it banned here. I've had some pretty good experience with suppliers like Kratom Krumbs, VNLT, and Newgroz. However I've also ordered some total crap from suppliers like Green Harmony, Kratomind and Kratom Crazy.

So checking out the vendor listings, I saw that a company called Next Botanical is selling kilos for >$40. At that price I wonder what's the harm in trying. I've read and seen all the stuff that TFH posted about the "behind the scenes of the kratom industry" so I know there is risk for some nasty stuff to come my way.

Hey man. I'm about the same as you... Before the big "Shipping Fiasco" of 2-3 years ago. I did import from most of those, and several others. Vince, Nugroz is a good guy that whole group: Dwi, Medy, Widi, Jimmy, of course Fhietra of Golden Green, (he's here on MM!) and others.. All doing their own thing, competitors but also friends. They can, and do... hire crews for Wild Harvest leaf. Make their own blends w/ the Plantation stuff, JongKong, etc. I completely agree on Green Harmony, wow. Ryan sent me colors, that's about it... like 5 distinct colors. Almost like they used food coloring or ?? the quality was poor. Kratomind ? mixed but did supply some decent stuff. They got scammed very badly by USA crooks.

Now? Be very skeptical of any "popup" Indo suppliers. Shipping small loads is still risky. . And some of the old guys, were bought-out by Big Kratom. For example NGB - then Master Botanicals - now I believe Zack works exclusively for NuWave. They invested $ in his shop with new equipment & looks really nice... video on YouTube.

[Detuned]

I tried buying from indo as well. I ordered from a well-known Shop called BORNEO HALE. I knew that in the past several years ago loads of German vendors bought there. So I tried it and was quality-wise very disappointed. Ordered 3 different strains where i am Sure they scammed me with sending identical powder in all 3 bags. Beside that quality is not good.

[Fhietra899]

I'll tried to stand in the middle between Indo exporters and US vendors.
About the TFH thread about "behind the scene of kratom industry" that's real what happened from 80% of kratom industry. Most of ppl in here works like that and i should says its really nasty. But i didnt fully blaming them that works with their dirty ways bcause they doesnt care about good process, they works like that bcause of pressure from above.
I should says more pressure in prices, more cheaper the request, so they should works in dirty ways to make it.

And now, is it logic to buy clean and good processed kratom under 10$/kg?? Even its use 20-40 feet containers ways to deliver, is it possible to buy under 10$/kg???

[nextbotanical]

So over the past few years I've dabbled with purchasing leaf direct from suppliers overseas. Haven't done this in a long time but I also bought a TON from suppliers a few years ago when the threat was incredibly high to have it banned here. I've had some pretty good experience with suppliers like Kratom Krumbs, VNLT, and Newgroz. However I've also ordered some total crap from suppliers like Green Harmony, Kratomind and Kratom Crazy.

So checking out the vendor listings, I saw that a company called Next Botanical is selling kilos for >$40. At that price I wonder what's the harm in trying. I've read and seen all the stuff that TFH posted about the "behind the scenes of the kratom industry" so I know there is risk for some nasty stuff to come my way.

Curious about others experiences doing this... if you have.

Like you said, what's the harm in trying

[Badgame85]

Yeah I remember when Kratomind was expanding to a US operation and that seemed to fall through. Figured someone got taken advantage of. What a shame. The K industry has elements of corruption just like any other industry I suppose.

I keep hearing about the shipping issues, but maybe I'm missing something?!? What exactly is the issue now compared to years past? Customs just confiscating more aggressively?

[Rhino236]

Yeah I remember when Kratomind was expanding to a US operation and that seemed to fall through. Figured someone got taken advantage of. What a shame. The K industry has elements of corruption just like any other industry I suppose.

I keep hearing about the shipping issues, but maybe I'm missing something?!? What exactly is the issue now compared to years past? Customs just confiscating more aggressively?

Well Hong Kong banned kratom and 90% of shipments used to go through there. With air cargo we used to use the Hong Kong port. Now Singapore is the only logical route. Unfortunately Singapore is an additional $8-$10 per kilogram. So the only routes are POS Indo,smuggling,or paying extreme rates to use air cargo. Prices are going up and importing is becoming much more difficult. Feels like we’re being squeezed from all sides.

[BallzDeep9]

Well Hong Kong banned kratom and 90% of shipments used to go throw there. With air cargo we used to use the Hong Kong port. Now Singapore is the only logical route. Unfortunately Singapore is an additional $8-$10 per kilogram ... So the only routes are POS Indo, smuggling, or paying extreme rates to use Air Cargo. Prices are going up and importing is becoming much more difficult. Feels like we’re being squeezed from all sides.

Yes the only routes for "Small Batch" quality. You did not mention, Sea Container shipping which now is the majority of all kratom imported into the USA... aka "Bulk Kratom" which is fine for drug labs processing, OPMS extracts, head-shop "shots" and the like. Extract labs don't care too much about Quality leaf for consumers.

What We Need is two different "channels" or grades of kratom imports. Higher grade, consumer Quality product should be, very important - Fair Trade kratom, which is... A complex issue, that started nearly 20 years ago, for Coffee - and has grown to include many harvested food products. I started down this rabbit-hole the other day. Wikipedia has a entire page re: The Fair-Trade Debate - Please READ!! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_trade_debate

So basically, are both USA Vendors and Indo Suppliers, willing to organize & promote this ?? KEY questionL Are Consumers willing to pay more for Fair-Trade certified products? I think so... I would like to think so. Could we organize even 10 USA vendors, into a "Small Batch" co-op to get this ball rolling? That seems questionable.. A Major part of this effort, would be to assure Indo's of a Minimum price per Kilo, and quality control on the entire supply chain.

[Rhino236]

Yea should of clarified. Only routes for us small batch vendors to use.

[LuckyHerbals]

Just a disclaimer... I don't mean anything bad here and am absolutely not talking about any of the vendors we have known over the last 3 years....

Ballz... I have been talking to two other small batch vendors, and they are both paying $10-$12 less per kg than we have been. I believe we have been paying a premium price for our leaf for quite some time, shipping included. Therefore, we haven't seen an increase in those costs in quite some time. POS is the best option for small batch vendors that can do a larger quantity. This additional cost seems to be absorbed by the Indo supplier, as POS doesn't offer any sort of discount for larger shipments. A vendor basically needs to make it "worth it" for the Indo supplier.

As far as stateside small-batch vendors organizing into a co-op... I just don't see it happening. Too many small batch vendors are operating under this guise of leaf exclusivity. Seasoned kratom consumers know that every harvest is different in terms of quality (potency & effects), which of course is completely anecdotal. Not just that, but I fear that some of the small batch leaf is not really small batch. This industry still has some holes when it comes to accountability / integrity.

Another factor to possibly think about is.. the more organized the Indo suppliers become, the less negotiating power a small batch US vendor may have. As for small batch quality, my biggest fear with organizing like that is that the price per kilo on the Indo supplier side will go up dramatically, and that will be reflected with higher prices for the consumer stateside. As of now, there aren't any reasons for bulk processors to increase quality for their buyers. Our company is easily paying $30 MORE PER KILO than those bulk guys are. It's absolutely a complicated problem, and something I don't anticipate to change any time soon.

[Fhietra899]

Yeah I remember when Kratomind was expanding to a US operation and that seemed to fall through. Figured someone got taken advantage of. What a shame. The K industry has elements of corruption just like any other industry I suppose.

I keep hearing about the shipping issues, but maybe I'm missing something?!? What exactly is the issue now compared to years past? Customs just confiscating more aggressively?

Well Hong Kong banned kratom and 90% of shipments used to go through there. With air cargo we used to use the Hong Kong port. Now Singapore is the only logical route. Unfortunately Singapore is an additional $8-$10 per kilogram. So the only routes are POS Indo,smuggling,or paying extreme rates to use air cargo. Prices are going up and importing is becoming much more difficult. Feels like we’re being squeezed from all sides.

I think i would explain about Why Hongkong doesnt want accept kratom to passin thru their airport. All this time its just not transitted, kratom packages out for awhile from customs area and re-make the papers to goin in the states, that's why customs seized. Its not will seized if its just "real transitted and not goin out from customs area".
Some of ppl use Dhl and pos for small shipment, for 1 to 5 tons vendors should use sea cargo to get more cheaper prices but its took 2-3 months.

[Fhietra899]

Well Hong Kong banned kratom and 90% of shipments used to go throw there. With air cargo we used to use the Hong Kong port. Now Singapore is the only logical route. Unfortunately Singapore is an additional $8-$10 per kilogram ... So the only routes are POS Indo, smuggling, or paying extreme rates to use Air Cargo. Prices are going up and importing is becoming much more difficult. Feels like we’re being squeezed from all sides.

Yes the only routes for "Small Batch" quality. You did not mention, Sea Container shipping which now is the majority of all kratom imported into the USA... aka "Bulk Kratom" which is fine for drug labs processing, OPMS extracts, head-shop "shots" and the like. Extract labs don't care too much about Quality leaf for consumers.

What We Need is two different "channels" or grades of kratom imports. Higher grade, consumer Quality product should be, very important - Fair Trade kratom, which is... A complex issue, that started nearly 20 years ago, for Coffee - and has grown to include many harvested food products. I started down this rabbit-hole the other day. Wikipedia has a entire page re: The Fair-Trade Debate - Please READ!! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_trade_debate

So basically, are both USA Vendors and Indo Suppliers, willing to organize & promote this ?? KEY questionL Are Consumers willing to pay more for Fair-Trade certified products? I think so... I would like to think so. Could we organize even 10 USA vendors, into a "Small Batch" co-op to get this ball rolling? That seems questionable.. A Major part of this effort, would be to assure Indo's of a Minimum price per Kilo, and quality control on the entire supply chain.

Fair trade was dificult to get right now balz, you know there's will be several ppl with big powers and big moneys want to push prices to goin down and down. Make a conditions that no one can win to their prices war.
About the 10 USA vendors into a small batch co-op that we need to make right now, and that's will be really helping to make a side with "fair trade".

[nextbotanical]

Yeah I remember when Kratomind was expanding to a US operation and that seemed to fall through. Figured someone got taken advantage of. What a shame. The K industry has elements of corruption just like any other industry I suppose.

I keep hearing about the shipping issues, but maybe I'm missing something?!? What exactly is the issue now compared to years past? Customs just confiscating more aggressively?

Well Hong Kong banned kratom and 90% of shipments used to go through there. With air cargo we used to use the Hong Kong port. Now Singapore is the only logical route. Unfortunately Singapore is an additional $8-$10 per kilogram. So the only routes are POS Indo,smuggling,or paying extreme rates to use air cargo. Prices are going up and importing is becoming much more difficult. Feels like we’re being squeezed from all sides.

I think i would explain about Why Hongkong doesnt want accept kratom to passin thru their airport. All this time its just not transitted, kratom packages out for awhile from customs area and re-make the papers to goin in the states, that's why customs seized. Its not will seized if its just "real transitted and not goin out from customs area".
Some of ppl use Dhl and pos for small shipment, for 1 to 5 tons vendors should use sea cargo to get more cheaper prices but its took 2-3 months.

Yes, we can't longer send kratom through Hongkong, it's difficult now, for small batch we use DHL and the shipping cost is extremely expensive

[onespeedstop]

Our company is easily paying $30 MORE PER KILO than those bulk guys are. It's absolutely a complicated problem, and something I don't anticipate to change any time soon.

The thing that comes to mind is that you service a different segment of clients. Ie, the shady Gas-N-Go places aren't stealing your customers, and vice versa. I know it's the same product and there's bound to be a little (maybe 5% if a few online customers run out and don't want to wait 4-5 days for shipping) crossover, but it's kind of negligible. Of course prices can only be raised to a certain point to cover extra expenses, but there's always room for quality, always.

Overall, kratom is like any product, 90% of it is mediocre at best, see = walmart or alibaba express ha-ha. It's a different customer base, and somewhat ironically, they will pay more for local garbage. I do hope the folks harvesting the kratom are making a living wage, but I doubt it, most walmart workers don't and us paying more for the stuff in the store to have a "fair slavery" sticker won't change that eh.

[Rhino236]

Yeah I remember when Kratomind was expanding to a US operation and that seemed to fall through. Figured someone got taken advantage of. What a shame. The K industry has elements of corruption just like any other industry I suppose.

I keep hearing about the shipping issues, but maybe I'm missing something?!? What exactly is the issue now compared to years past? Customs just confiscating more aggressively?

Well Hong Kong banned kratom and 90% of shipments used to go through there. With air cargo we used to use the Hong Kong port. Now Singapore is the only logical route. Unfortunately Singapore is an additional $8-$10 per kilogram. So the only routes are POS Indo,smuggling,or paying extreme rates to use air cargo. Prices are going up and importing is becoming much more difficult. Feels like we’re being squeezed from all sides.

I think i would explain about Why Hongkong doesnt want accept kratom to passin thru their airport. All this time its just not transitted, kratom packages out for awhile from customs area and re-make the papers to goin in the states, that's why customs seized. Its not will seized if its just "real transitted and not goin out from customs area".
Some of ppl use Dhl and pos for small shipment, for 1 to 5 tons vendors should use sea cargo to get more cheaper prices but its took 2-3 months.

The difficult part is 200-300kg orders. Yes pos,dhl,ups can be used from small shipments. But it’s hard to get 200-300kg without Hong Kong air cargo

[pray4peace4]

Y'all keep mentioning DHL. I placed an order with an Indo supplier, he shipped it DHL, & it was seized. Fortunately for me, the supplier ate the loss & sent another shipment through Singapore. One of the American vendors I know told me to never agree for an order to be shipped DHL because the chance for being seized is high. Is that your experience, too?

[Rhino236]

Y'all keep mentioning DHL. I placed an order with an Indo supplier, he shipped it DHL, & it was seized. Fortunately for me, the supplier ate the loss & sent another shipment through Singapore. One of the American vendors I know told me to never agree for an order to be shipped DHL because the chance for being seized is high. Is that your experience, too?

He must of had a terrible agent with improper paperwork.

[Fhietra899]

Well Hong Kong banned kratom and 90% of shipments used to go through there. With air cargo we used to use the Hong Kong port. Now Singapore is the only logical route. Unfortunately Singapore is an additional $8-$10 per kilogram. So the only routes are POS Indo,smuggling,or paying extreme rates to use air cargo. Prices are going up and importing is becoming much more difficult. Feels like we’re being squeezed from all sides.

I think i would explain about Why Hongkong doesnt want accept kratom to passin thru their airport. All this time its just not transitted, kratom packages out for awhile from customs area and re-make the papers to goin in the states, that's why customs seized. Its not will seized if its just "real transitted and not goin out from customs area".
Some of ppl use Dhl and pos for small shipment, for 1 to 5 tons vendors should use sea cargo to get more cheaper prices but its took 2-3 months.

The difficult part is 200-300kg orders. Yes pos,dhl,ups can be used from small shipments. But it’s hard to get 200-300kg without Hong Kong air cargo

Yes,, its took more cost with Dhl and Ups.
Air cargo have less prices, but i didnt know when its start again, even air cargo that transitted to Turki hasnt works too

[Badgame85]

Overall, kratom is like any product, 90% of it is mediocre at best, see = walmart or alibaba express ha-ha. It's a different customer base, and somewhat ironically, they will pay more for local garbage. I do hope the folks harvesting the kratom are making a living wage, but I doubt it, most walmart workers don't and us paying more for the stuff in the store to have a "fair slavery" sticker won't change that eh.

#TRUTH

Good response. Thank you!