The Infamous Wobbles

[Arctic_Martian]

For the last couple years I've mostly managed to avoid the dreaded "wobbles" by sticking with high-quality suppliers and sampling before buying. But recently I've had more run-ins with the wobbles, so I've been thinking about it more and wanted to hear others' perspectives too.

Sometimes I see people claim that the wobbles is simply due to taking too much kratom. Following that logic, I've seen people praise certain kratom products for their ability to cause wobbles even at low doses, basically saying "I only took 2 grams of X and I still got wobbles. This stuff is so strong!" My experience with kratom suggests otherwise. I guess I agree to an extent - a high enough dose of any type of kratom CAN cause wobbles - but I don't think the tendency to cause wobbles is a reliable indicator of quality or potency at all. In fact my favorite strains are those which I can take large doses of, get desirable effects, and NOT get the wobbles. In my eyes the tendency to cause wobbles is actually a NEGATIVE indicator of quality.

We already know that M. speciosa contains over 15 pharmacologically active alkaloids, but through my personal experience with kratom I can distinctly identify about 4 different types of effects I get from kratom. Some strains are more energizing and stimulating, which I've always attributed to mitragynine. Then there are your fermented red strains that contain higher levels of 7-hydroxymitragynine (7-OHM), giving a more relaxing, opioid-esque effect. I also frequently come across certain whites and greens that are sedating, but not in the same way that fermented reds are. Strains like this tend to put me to sleep without producing the same "warmth" that 7-OHM causes. I have no clue which alkaloid is responsible for these sedating whites and greens - seems like what little we know about kratom is focused on mitragynine/7-OHM. And finally, we have whichever alkaloid causes the wobbles. I'm quite sure there is a specific compound(s) that cause wobbles, because some kratom offers all desired effects and no wobbles, while others offer only wobbles and no desired effects. I find myself wondering which alkaloid it is and where it comes from. I've seen people claim wobbles come from stems or immature leaves, but does anyone really know?

I've had more encounters with the wobbles since I received my direct overseas order from Borneohale. Every now and then I like to try a new source, just to make sure I'm still getting that good shit from my usual suppliers. Borneohale had a nice sale back in November, so I took advantage and sampled some of their products. I'll be honest - I'm pretty disappointed they're selling this shit at all. Most of the strains only cause wobbles, even at tiny doses. I took 1.5 grams of "Super" White a couple days back and felt like shit for the next 8 hours. You probably know the feeling - nauseated, fatigued, unable to focus, pissed off in general. I've given each of their various strains multiple tries, and this is consistently the result. I guess this is probably because they're a huge business pumping out kratom at an insane rate, but I'm curious why that results in wobbly kratom. Maybe it's immature leaves as some people say...

Does my experience with kratom and the wobbles match yours? Do you have a different take? I'm interested to hear what you guys think. If anyone has some insight and is willing to drop a knowledge bomb on us, that would be awesome!

Cheers!

[gumbyke1]

Oh how I have the wobbles. I know exactly what you mean, some strains produce nothing but wobbles for me, no matter how low of a dose I take. I don't agree with the logic that wobbles = good stuff, but I can understand why many do draw that conclusion.

I wish we could unlock this mystery. Whenever I get new kratom shipments I'm worried that I'm gonna in to wobble hard, so I always go low and mix it with something I already own. This takes away from the experience of judging a new batch off my first impression.

[beathappening]

Ever got the wobbles really bad unexpectedly and have to walk somewhere, to the store or what have you? I can't even imagine what driving would be like.

[Goat]

Please enlighten me. I have been using kratom for two years now. Red, green, white, gold, and yellow from 10 different suppliers. I limit my dose to one and one half grams in an oblate disc three times a day. I either don’t understand what the wobbles are or have never gotten the wobbles. Do the wobbles only come with higher dosage?

[herbalhippie]

I dose at about three-quarters of a gram and I got what I think might have been the wobbles one day from a new strain. My eyes were doing this weird jittery thing for a while. That's the only time something like that is ever happened in almost 2 years.

[beathappening]

We are truly in the dark ages of kratom information

If anyone of you that have haven't had wobbles before, it's like being on potent MDMA (without the euphoria and good stuff.) You literally have to cover one of your eyes to be able to discern anything. Best not to make eye contact. Impossible to fiocus, made worse by glancing sideways. Not sure what to make of it, if anything.

I knew a guy in jail whose eyes got stuck like that permanently like that after rolling
toohard years prior had normal visiom before. Now, even five years ago. One eye was dead on, the other was 90°> a la mad eyevmoody.

Not that that is really helping any one haha,I know,I'm sorry. I think it's either taking too much of any strain, but also unbalanced leaf exists plud body chemistry etc.

[Arctic_Martian]

Yeah exactly, it feels like your eyes are crossing against your will, and it's uncomfortable just to focus on stuff or try to shift your gaze in any direction but forward. And I'll get a headache with brief, random spots in my peripheral vision, almost like migraine type symptoms. I'm surprised some of you haven't experienced it more honestly. Every now and then I get a batch of kratom that causes it, and if it happens multiple times in a row on a particular strain I'll just toss it. I still have a few more strains to try from my Borneohale order, but I have a feeling I may be throwing away quite a bit of kratom. It's a shame to waste so much kratom, but when it actively makes me feel worse then really it's worth less than no kratom at all :/ Fortunately there are more reliable vendors who consistently supply much more pleasant kratom!

[Payshince]

I dont want to come off in the wrong light but why Whhyyy would you ever throw away Kratom, Arctic_Martian!?!

You could send that to someone who really could use that Kratom who is a single Mom or Dad or is recovering or is unemployed and has no insurance etc. Just an idea!
Because, everyone is different and yeah it may give YOU sh!tty symptoms but that Does Not mean the Kratom is sh!tty by any means.

Like I said I’m not trying to be in your face or anything just trying to shed some info

Plus, is BorneoHale even a legit site, vendor??

Yeah exactly, it feels like your eyes are crossing against your will, and it's uncomfortable just to focus on stuff or try to shift your gaze in any direction but forward. And I'll get a headache with brief, random spots in my peripheral vision, almost like migraine type symptoms. I'm surprised some of you haven't experienced it more honestly. Every now and then I get a batch of kratom that causes it, and if it happens multiple times in a row on a particular strain I'll just toss it. I still have a few more strains to try from my Borneohale order, but I have a feeling I may be throwing away quite a bit of kratom. It's a shame to waste so much kratom, but when it actively makes me feel worse then really it's worth less than no kratom at all :/ Fortunately there are more reliable vendors who consistently supply much more pleasant kratom!

[herbalhippie]

We are truly in the dark ages of kratom information

If anyone of you that have haven't had wobbles before, it's like being on potent MDMA (without the euphoria and good stuff.) You literally have to cover one of your eyes to be able to discern anything. Best not to make eye contact. Impossible to fiocus, made worse by glancing sideways. Not sure what to make of it, if anything.

I knew a guy in jail whose eyes got stuck like that permanently like that after rolling
toohard years prior had normal visiom before. Now, even five years ago. One eye was dead on, the other was 90°> a la mad eyevmoody.

Not that that is really helping any one haha,I know,I'm sorry. I think it's either taking too much of any strain, but also unbalanced leaf exists plud body chemistry etc.

Jesus. I'm dropping my doses to a half gram.

[Arctic_Martian]

Payshince,

Yeah, Borneohale has been a huge Indonesian supplier for years now - probably too huge. I have quite a bit of experience with kratom, and most leaf jives well with me. But I can tell when I have leaf that's beyond redemption. I agree to an extent that people respond to kratom differently, but as I mentioned earlier I'm kind of appalled that people are selling such toxic leaf in the first place. I wouldn't want someone to pay for shipping just so they could get dizzy and nauseated later. I agree with your sentiment, but you've just gotta trust me when I say it's not worth passing on. Sorry dude.

[Goat]

Now I feel I am missing something. I need to wobble. Help me.

[CatfatherB]

When I first started kratom( about 14 months ago) I overtook some really potent stuff and got the wobbles I was buying some stuff from a guy who bought directly from Indonesia, he told me to eat some burnt toast?....I did....and it has cured me from this horrible condition every time. I don't know the logic behind this? Idk?...carbs?..why burnt?...couldn't say, but it has worked a few times.

[herbalhippie]

Maybe the charcoal from the burnt bread? I think they use charcoal in the ER when people ingest something they shouldn't. It absorbs the substance somewhat.

Ah, here we go. https://www.poison.org/articles/2015-ma ... d-charcoal

[CatfatherB]

Maybe the charcoal from the burnt bread? I think they use charcoal in the ER when people ingest something they shouldn't. It absorbs the substance somewhat.

Ah, here we go. https://www.poison.org/articles/2015-ma ... d-charcoal

I need to get some of that activated charcoal, eating black toast isnt pleasant, lol!

[Ronny1992]

So, I’ve been a heavy heavy kratom user for 5 years now. I know the how it effects me, I know all about the sickness it can give you, and all about the perfect buzz it can give you. I have always said kratom sickness seemingly has no rhyme or reason because you’ll be taking some from a batch that just makes you feel PHENOMENAL, THEN..... from that same batch, AND SAMMMMME DOSE, you’ll get the kratom eye wobbles and jitters and have a horrible time. its just a random thing that I don’t understand and only WISH there was extensive research into kratom and the alkaloids that are the trigger of the eye wobbles.

So, let’s talk herbal RVA.... I took a trip to my dads house and didn’t bring any kratom, so I used his for the weekend and his was a kilo from herbal Rva. I noticed that his kratom pu me in the fine line of eye wobbles/euphoria. So I thought “maybe it’s a bad batch”. So I got home and put an order into herbal Rva for the premium maeng da. And since I had no kratom while I waited for my herbal Rva package to arrive, I resorted to the “remarkable herbs maeng da” from the smoke shops. It worked great, no sickness, just pure euphoria. LOVED IT. Then I remembered my aunt bought a kilo about 2 years ago that I know she never used so I asked her if I could have hers if she’s not using it. She wasn’t, so she gave me about half a kilo... and the stuff was BEAUTIFUL!! It was the kind of kratom that couldn’t get you sick, only euphoric! I was re-dosing like a mad man all day and night and STILL, NO EYE WOBBLES!!!! I eventually finished the stuff, and then proceeded to open up my herbal Rva package that had arrived earlier that week.

I open up the Rva “premium maeng da “ it’s green and vibrant and looks good. I take some, and by golly, I felt pretty good. 2 days go by of using the Rva stuff and all of a sudden, I HAVE EYE WOBBLES GALORE AND AM BED LOCKED! And its been a week since I got it and I HATE the stuff. It bedriddens me so i dont like to use it. It gives me such bad eye wobbles it’s making me research extensively into what kratom eye wobbles are and how to cure them. I. Almost tempted to buying a bunch of different vertigo and dizziness medications just to see if I can find an antidote to this horrible, RANDOM sickness. And when you look at the “how to prevent dizziness” posts, it’s all obvious stuff like “take less”, and “close your eyes and wait for it to pass”. NO, I want myself and the kratom community to try different things and if enough of us try stuff, we’re bound to find some 100% cure! And I mean CURE! Not, “well, it helps a little” , NO , I MEAN FULLY PREVENTS AND OR STOPS EYE WOBBLES IN THEIR TRACKS!

This is why it sucks having no money or scientific research in kratom because I garantee if scientists had a crack at it, they would find some remedy or preventative thing we kratom users can take! Maybe it’s in the form of a pill, maybe it’s a certain food, maybe it’s an already made pill like a vertigo pill, IDK, we just need to get research in this field and if we can’t, we gotta seek it ourselves!

Good, fast shipping and decent prices. In my main 5 rotation along with spirit science, botanical bunny, mitraman and enhanciosa

[Dunebuggy]

I have taken kratom about six months but never had the wobbles. I felt like tired after taking a big dose when i had first started taking it but not what wobbles is described as.

[mivanqua]

Ever got the wobbles really bad unexpectedly and have to walk somewhere, to the store or what have you? I can't even imagine what driving would be like.

It SUCKS!

[Kirkland]

Ill have to try the burnt toast the next time it hopefully (never) happens. I know some of you mentioned finding a cure all and not something that just “helps” but the OTC vertigo medication meclizine significantly reduces the issues and greatly reduces the duration of them. The only downside is that it may make you tired afterwards, since it is an anti-histamine, but much less so than Benadryl. So in fact its not a practical solution, more like a trade off.

[Payshince]

Ever got the wobbles really bad unexpectedly and have to walk somewhere, to the store or what have you? I can't even imagine what driving would be like.

It SUCKS!

It’s actually quite dangerous I must add!

Yes, yes it does SUCK! I second that as well alongside Mivanqua! It’s like being extremely exhausted and trying to stay awake while you’re about to PASS THE F’ Out.
And nodd!ng off...

I need to get some activated charcoal for this exact reason in case this ever happens for emergencies.
You never know when it might come in handy!***

[MarTheophilus]

Man, I am going through the same thing. Thank you for posting this. Never had this problem with kratom but recently a generous fellow from Natrure’s Cure sold me 2 kilos for 80 bucks and I was so stoked but then I got dizzy off of 3 teaspoons. His response, “oh, a common sign of overdose...”
But my experience with kratom over the years also testifies that this is false.
I had good kratom from Krabot for about 2 years straight and then suddenly it made me dizzy. They initially told me that I was taking too much and this annoyed me because I took time to explain that I was taking the same dose of the same strains that I always got from them; green bali, green maeng da, and green Malay and white maeng da.
They didn’t agree with me but ended up sending me 500 grams of a new batch for free when I complained about the dizziness. Sadly...that stuff is making me a bit dizzy at 7 gram doses whereas Krabot’s stuff NEVER made me dizzy at those doses in the past. So props to Krabot for trying and for being kind.

I tried ordering from a few other vendors and every one of them has had “dizzy kratom” or “wobbly kratom” as I have been calling it. So upsetting how everyone of them has also passed it off as too high of a dose. Even after I carefully explain to them that it must be something else because it is the same dose I have always taken.
I have taken upwards of 18grams and never felt anything negative. Just strong good comforting effects.
Played guitar and laid comfortably in bed.

So the one thing I am not hearing anyone mention is mold or mycotoxins. Mycotoxins are known to do this and I am seeing that lots of kratom has some mold in it. You also mentioned feeling fatigued, I have read that this is a sign of mold exposure. I have never had the eye wobbles for as long as you, 8 hours? Man that’s horrible. It’s usually about 4 hours for me.
The first stuff that made me dizzy at only 4 grams had about 60 thousand colony forming units of mold per gram, and another white maeng da from super Speciosa takes about 8 grams to make me dizzy and it has 5000 cfu/g. So this makes me think it’s mold.
Indonesia is gnarly humid and full of wild plant life. It makes sense that mold could be doing this.
I think we should ask vendors to figure out what this is and don’t let them pass it off as simply “too high of a dose.” My biggest concern is that they just want to make money so they don’t admit that they have a problem.

I wondered about cooking the dizziness out but I have read that mycotoxins do not break down much with cooking temps, even at 400 degrees F. I cooked my kratom at 170 for 1 hour and saw no reduction in dizziness but my headaches have been reduced by doing this.

I feel really bad for these growers. My wife is Indonesian, raised in Bontang, East Borneo, and I have been there a couple times, super nice and humble people. Very poor people in many places. I hope we can help them overcome this problem so that they can prosper and so no one will ever be dizzy from bad kratom again. I pray God will bless them to do that.

I wonder, maybe we could start a go fund me to fund research into this matter?

Peace

[daydreamerinwords]

Man, I hate the wobbles. I have had a batch of red vein that gave me horrendous wobbles, to a point where it wasn’t even enjoyable or relieving to take. I stopped taking that particular brand of Kratom - it was making me feel ill whenever I took it. Wobbles are the worst. Generally, food helps end them.

[Hopbronson]

This topic has always interested me as I have had definitely had my fair share of wobbles and much like Gumby mentioned Iam always nervous taking my first dose of new product as there is nothing worse than intense wobbles so I usually blend . One thing I have correlated to wobbles over time is that Iam far more likely to get them if it’s a fast strain, I seem to get it the most frequently from whites and rarely or never from slower reds and greens. I have had batches that everyone claims as fire only to dose less than a half my normal and still get insane wobbles and no enjoyable effects. Iam very curious about what Mar said about mycotoxins/mold and if that has any bearing. People have mentioned using the s&v to help with that, so I have a bag of it on the way and will experiment.

[mivanqua]

This topic has always interested me as I have had definitely had my fair share of wobbles and much like Gumby mentioned Iam always nervous taking my first dose of new product as there is nothing worse than intense wobbles so I usually blend . One thing I have correlated to wobbles over time is that Iam far more likely to get them if it’s a fast strain, I seem to get it the most frequently from whites and rarely or never from slower reds and greens. I have had batches that everyone claims as fire only to dose less than a half my normal and still get insane wobbles and no enjoyable effects. Iam very curious about what Mar said about mycotoxins/mold and if that has any bearing. People have mentioned using the s&v to help with that, so I have a bag of it on the way and will experiment.

Mold is.a problem. Even when.treated SUPER well, mold sometimes STILL finds a way on to kratom leaves I'm sure. Its just nature finding a way, i guess....TO RUIN OUR BURNS! I'd be interested to know what the studies finds in relation to.this, the most "dangerous" aspect of.kratom BY FAR.

[KraytomorKraatom?]

I have also experienced the dreaded kratom wobbles. After quite of bit of research along with many years of different opiate/opioid use I have a theory. I certainly dont believe it's from good or strong kratom. I believe it is from the opioid antagonist Corynantheidine. It is a minor constituent in kratom. I think that in some batches the balance becomes thrown off somehow. From the drying process or storage. Not sure about the how. I'm almost positive about the what and why though. The reason I say this is it feels almost exactly like when I would go into precipitated withdrawal from taking a suboxone to soon after using a full opioid agonist. Anyone who has ever experienced precipitated withdrawl will never forget that feeling. There are also studies that show how certain genotypes are more sensitive to opioid antagonist/ less sensitive to opioid agonists as well as the other way around less sensitive to opioid antagonist/ more sensitive to opioid agonists. Which they are starting to think explains why some people become alcoholics/addicts and some do not. It would also explain the whole "everybodies body chemistry is different" what works for some doesn't for others. Could be wrong but it's the conclusion I came to after lots of research on this.

[mivanqua]

I have also experienced the dreaded kratom wobbles. After quite of bit of research along with many years of different opiate/opioid use I have a theory. I certainly dont believe it's from good or strong kratom. I believe it is from the opioid antagonist Corynantheidine. It is a minor constituent in kratom. I think that in some batches the balance becomes thrown off somehow. From the drying process or storage. Not sure about the how. I'm almost positive about the what and why though. The reason I say this is it feels almost exactly like when I would go into precipitated withdrawal from taking a suboxone to soon after using a full opioid agonist. Anyone who has ever experienced precipitated withdrawl will never forget that feeling. There are also studies that show how certain genotypes are more sensitive to opioid antagonist/ less sensitive to opioid agonists as well as the other way around less sensitive to opioid antagonist/ more sensitive to opioid agonists. Which they are starting to think explains why some people become alcoholics/addicts and some do not. It would also explain the whole "everybodies body chemistry is different" what works for some doesn't for others. Could be wrong but it's the conclusion I came to after lots of research on this.

BLAM! Scienced the shit out of this post! This answer seems like it is the right answer. It DOES feel like the beginning.of PW. Thanks for.this in depth and likely correct answer to the age-old riddle.

[pimpdaddymatt]

Haven't gotten the wobbles since I switched over from the headshop stuff. I had a prescription of an anti-nausea meds called Zofran when I was on suboxone and had some left over, it pretty much knocked out the nausea aspect of the kratom wobbles. Should be pretty easy to get prescribed if you go talk to your doctor.

[WalrusGuardian]

I think some have confused "better" leaf with more important leaf. It's true that the stuff that has more potential for wobbles at higher doses has also been stronger at lower doses, on average, than other gentler strains without the side effect. I wouldn't need to risk wobbles at my usual dose range if a half dose is still potent enough to work. Sometimes these same wobbly strains have had great effects once an ideal amount is found. A cleaner strain will still have a higher useful dose but taking more of it is more expensive. It's a strange collection of tradeoffs in my experience.

[CAKEWOK]

or sometimes its as simple as being very dehydrated.

[MorriesWigs80]

or sometimes its as simple as being very dehydrated.

I got the wobbles two times in 3 weeks, from the same batch out of my current stash, and same dose. It was my favorite out of my current stash as well. I started blending, and brainstorming. I realized that both times I was a constipated, and not nearly as hydrated as I should be. And it’s QUALITY leaf. So I started drinking water, and didn’t take any until I passed what was so backed up in my system. I’m 100% sure that hydration is 1/2 the battle with wobbles. And since I was constipated, and also dehydrated, I had alkaloids and toxins built up in my body. Whatever alkaloids in Kratom that cause these unpleasant effect most certainly vary by batch. That same strain that was my favorite, THEN the culprit of 2 wobble burns, is back to being a favorite. We all know how complex and fickle this leaf can be. But, by being hydrated, eating right, and making ABSOLUTE sure you’re body is eliminating its waste properly and giving your body the chance to purify your blood, you can almost certainly reduce the chances of this unpleasant side effects that pop up every once and a while when you get lax on the basic fundamentals of a healthy routine.

[brave777]

I make and drink lots of herbal tea's, and noticed when i stop drinking tea it gives me sometimes wobbles but i do think tea's make it cleaner burns. Seems like it even takes care of constipation. Hot tea preferred but if i frig extra, its fine as well. Just prefer fresh made tea's. I cant tell but some days it seems kratom hits me like a rock. I have not tried to find out which herbal drinks potentiate it but i get that often, that's why i have to be careful to not over take kratom. And some extra water in stomach can never hurt you, its only is when you take over your limit and barely have any water in you that you will run into problem. Like i seen this dude swallow powder chasing with coca-cola. No water and barley any coke, he had the worst kidney pain ever. But its his fault for being stupid. I never recommend any soda with kratom.

[MarTheophilus]

So, I’ve been a heavy heavy kratom user for 5 years now. I know the how it effects me, I know all about the sickness it can give you, and all about the perfect buzz it can give you. I have always said kratom sickness seemingly has no rhyme or reason because you’ll be taking some from a batch that just makes you feel PHENOMENAL, THEN..... from that same batch, AND SAMMMMME DOSE, you’ll get the kratom eye wobbles and jitters and have a horrible time. its just a random thing that I don’t understand and only WISH there was extensive research into kratom and the alkaloids that are the trigger of the eye wobbles.

So, let’s talk herbal RVA.... I took a trip to my dads house and didn’t bring any kratom, so I used his for the weekend and his was a kilo from herbal Rva. I noticed that his kratom pu me in the fine line of eye wobbles/euphoria. So I thought “maybe it’s a bad batch”. So I got home and put an order into herbal Rva for the premium maeng da. And since I had no kratom while I waited for my herbal Rva package to arrive, I resorted to the “remarkable herbs maeng da” from the smoke shops. It worked great, no sickness, just pure euphoria. LOVED IT. Then I remembered my aunt bought a kilo about 2 years ago that I know she never used so I asked her if I could have hers if she’s not using it. She wasn’t, so she gave me about half a kilo... and the stuff was BEAUTIFUL!! It was the kind of kratom that couldn’t get you sick, only euphoric! I was re-dosing like a mad man all day and night and STILL, NO EYE WOBBLES!!!! I eventually finished the stuff, and then proceeded to open up my herbal Rva package that had arrived earlier that week.

I open up the Rva “premium maeng da “ it’s green and vibrant and looks good. I take some, and by golly, I felt pretty good. 2 days go by of using the Rva stuff and all of a sudden, I HAVE EYE WOBBLES GALORE AND AM BED LOCKED! And its been a week since I got it and I HATE the stuff. It bedriddens me so i dont like to use it. It gives me such bad eye wobbles it’s making me research extensively into what kratom eye wobbles are and how to cure them. I. Almost tempted to buying a bunch of different vertigo and dizziness medications just to see if I can find an antidote to this horrible, RANDOM sickness. And when you look at the “how to prevent dizziness” posts, it’s all obvious stuff like “take less”, and “close your eyes and wait for it to pass”. NO, I want myself and the kratom community to try different things and if enough of us try stuff, we’re bound to find some 100% cure! And I mean CURE! Not, “well, it helps a little” , NO , I MEAN FULLY PREVENTS AND OR STOPS EYE WOBBLES IN THEIR TRACKS!

This is why it sucks having no money or scientific research in kratom because I garantee if scientists had a crack at it, they would find some remedy or preventative thing we kratom users can take! Maybe it’s in the form of a pill, maybe it’s a certain food, maybe it’s an already made pill like a vertigo pill, IDK, we just need to get research in this field and if we can’t, we gotta seek it ourselves!

Good, fast shipping and decent prices. In my main 5 rotation along with spirit science, botanical bunny, mitraman and enhanciosa

Totally man, we need a cure. This condition can be dangerous. I work on forklifts and with dangerous chemicals as a Laboratory Technician and if I got bad eye wobbles at work at the wrong time it could be real bad. Really glad to hear the way you’re talking my friend.

[MarTheophilus]

Oh how I have the wobbles. I know exactly what you mean, some strains produce nothing but wobbles for me, no matter how low of a dose I take. I bought a kilo of what everyone was calling "the fire" and it's like no matter how litter I mix it into other strains I get at least minor wobbles. I don't agree with the logic that wobbles = good stuff, but I can understand why many do draw that conclusion.

I wish we could unlock this mystery. Whenever I get new kratom shipments I'm worried that I'm gonna in to wobble hard, so I always dose low and mix it with something I already own. This takes away from the experience of judging a new strain off my first impression.

Such a bummer right?
Wouldn’t it be wonderful if vendors could guarantee no wobbles?

When I get a new batch, I usually do 3 grams in water with honey, sip about half, wait 30 minutes, and then I look for the first signs of the disease. If I don’t see it then I drink the rest and then go up to about 6 grams. But tonight I tried that and man, it was awful...worst eye wobbles I have had in a long time. I could barely walk, but thank God the worst part only lasted about 1 hour. Then it was mild for about another hour.

[MarTheophilus]

Payshince,

Yeah, Borneohale has been a huge Indonesian supplier for years now - probably too huge. I have quite a bit of experience with kratom, and most leaf jives well with me. But I can tell when I have leaf that's beyond redemption. I agree to an extent that people respond to kratom differently, but as I mentioned earlier I'm kind of appalled that people are selling such toxic leaf in the first place. I wouldn't want someone to pay for shipping just so they could get dizzy and nauseated later. I agree with your sentiment, but you've just gotta trust me when I say it's not worth passing on. Sorry dude.

It’s too bad the FDA is so corrupt you know? We could really use their help with this one...

[Psalmopeus]

The wobbles in my opinion come from tge build up of some of the lesser known alkaloids in your system. Effecting select parts of the brain or other organs. I have taken many of strains where you have none of these or very little of the alkaloids and will pretty much not get the wobbles. Then some strains which I say are low quality and cause them in one dose. I have an entire Kilo of this under my bed for the past 3 years. First dose is a maybe on the wobbles, second is guaranteed. Lately RVA kratom has been like this about half the batches. Before and desired effects I get the wobbles. I switched to Mitraman and 7 out of the 8 strains do not have this effect. I also notice if I keep my doses to high, and for a while i was not weighing and just eyeballing doses. When I thought I was taking 5 gram doses and randomly weighed one, it turned out to be 13 grams. Yikes, this was causing some of my problems. I went back to using a scale and the wobbles went away. Yet I tried a small dose of some of the wobbly Kratom and it still caused this. So it is all about alkaloid content and until some more rigid testin begins we are only guessing at which alkaloids cause this, but guanranteed this is the cause.

[KratoMan]

If I ever get the Wobbles I take 2 50 mg Dramamine with Food & Hot Coffee & in about 30 Minutes their Gone.

[Dale_Tisane]

Mycotoxins are a huge concern for me after learning more and more about them. I've had a year from hell from mycotoxin exposure in a water damaged building.
It really makes you re think everything when it comes to kratom and cannabis. What can we do though..

[Lokey]

Deleted

[uspatriot995]

So the one thing I am not hearing anyone mention is mold or mycotoxins. Mycotoxins are known to do this and I am seeing that lots of kratom has some mold in it. You also mentioned feeling fatigued, I have read that this is a sign of mold exposure. I have never had the eye wobbles for as long as you, 8 hours? Man that’s horrible. It’s usually about 4 hours for me.
The first stuff that made me dizzy at only 4 grams had about 60 thousand colony forming units of mold per gram, and another white maeng da from super Speciosa takes about 8 grams to make me dizzy and it has 5000 cfu/g. So this makes me think it’s mold.
Indonesia is gnarly humid and full of wild plant life. It makes sense that mold could be doing this.
I think we should ask vendors to figure out what this is and don’t let them pass it off as simply “too high of a dose.” My biggest concern is that they just want to make money so they don’t admit that they have a problem.

I wondered about cooking the dizziness out but I have read that mycotoxins do not break down much with cooking temps, even at 400 degrees F. I cooked my kratom at 170 for 1 hour and saw no reduction in dizziness but my headaches have been reduced by doing this.

I feel really bad for these growers. My wife is Indonesian, raised in Bontang, East Borneo, and I have been there a couple times, super nice and humble people. Very poor people in many places. I hope we can help them overcome this problem so that they can prosper and so no one will ever be dizzy from bad kratom again. I pray God will bless them to do that.

I wonder, maybe we could start a go fund me to fund research into this matter?

Peace

^This. Glad this thread is resurrected because it's certainly a thing, and lately is the first time I've read about it in such detail. Went and read a bunch of stuff on mycotoxins (check wikipedia first for a good scare) and there are in all probability, many/most/all batches that have some levels. Seems like again, it's somewhat of an individual thing as far as effects and which toxin is present in what amount, but the objective data is that some of these can really make you sick. Mind you I've never once been truly "sick" off kratom in 6+ years but I've had some sketchy batches. Also seems like a good suggestion--research, especially from a vendor/consumer perspective, would be important. I just don't see what you'd be able to do about it. Mold and fungii are in just about everything food-wise. When I'm feeling OCD I soak my veggies and fruits in a white vinegar solution before storing/eating. But what would you do with kratom that wouldn't change the overall affect, or ruin/deteriorate the product, etc. Even oxygen absorber packets could be detrimental I'm thinking, if my read is correct because some of these critters are anaerobic (grow best without oxygen). If heat alone won't work, maybe 165 degree water and then add some flavored ACV or lemon juice? Just thinking out loud.

[e_poison]

I've had strains that felt "off" or "strange", but thankfully I've only gotten the wobbles (intense nausea, headache, dizzyness) twice. Both times were hulus.

The first time was a green hulu. Felt like I was going to puke for hours.

The second time happened on a white hulu. I didn't take too much, but for some reason it just hit wrong. I got really bad nausea and shakiness.

In both cases, I ended up tossing the bag. Usually if a strain feels "off" to me or if it even makes me feel mildly sick, I will just throw the entire bag away. Not risking it.

Needless to say, I don't do any type of hulus anymore.

[Redlion40]

From what I've researched the "wobbles" is caused either by too much mitragynine (which causes a neuromuscular blockade triggering nystagmus), or potentially from the antagonists which counteract the feel-good effects of the main alkaloids mitragynine (which gets converted into 7-hydroxymitragynine in the liver by cyp3A4 enzymes). So basically you want a middle of the road level of mitragynine and a fairly low level of antagonists. I wouldn't go for kratom that has a percentage over 1.5% mitragynine. A lower level of mitragynine means you can take more without getting the so-called "wobbles". Typically you can take a higher level of Reds than you can Greens because of this usually.