My 3 vendors are out of business now!

[michaelconstipe]

For the past year my 3 main vendors are now out of business due to a recall or I guess fear of recall / low quality kratom shipments received. Does this mean I've probably been consuming contaminated product the whole time and my go-to vendors are afraid of FDA scrutiny now or is it just a dirty season for the low quality kratom? P.S. My first vendor now says they got a metric ton of bunk kratom and do not know if or when they will reopen!

[kratomandmath]

Which 3 vendors are they? Could be a combo of bunch of things like the credit card processors, FDA scare, actual contaminated batches, etc. I did watch the hearing for the TN vote on the committee and some senator or congressman said that even though this bill passed, kratom will most likely be scheduled federally (probably due to that federal bill on scheduling mu-opoiod substances). This was a dude who obviously voted against the bill for making kratom legal in TN. So I'm not sure if those in office are more certain about that federal bill passing more than we are. Could be some fear mongering. Also, it seems like there will be amendments added due to the broad language of the bill. Cross our fingers on that one.

[BallzDeep9]

Plenty of good vendors - Open for business! - Botanical Bunny, Canopy Botanicals, Fresh Alternative, Herbal-RVA, Kats Botanicals, Kratom-OG, Kraydo Organics, Okie Kratom, Oregon Kratom, Precious Mitre, Treasure House

[BlendsAreMyFriends]

For the past year my 3 main vendors are now out of business due to a recall or I guess fear of recall / low quality kratom shipments received. Does this mean I've probably been consuming contaminated product the whole time and my go-to vendors are afraid of FDA scrutiny now or is it just a dirty season for the low quality kratom? P.S. My first vendor now says they got a metric ton of bunk kratom and do not know if or when they will reopen!

If you didn't get sick you're probably OK.

[michaelconstipe]

Which 3 vendors are they? Could be a combo of bunch of things like the credit card processors, FDA scare, actual contaminated batches, etc. I did watch the hearing for the TN vote on the committee and some senator or congressman said that even though this bill passed, kratom will most likely be scheduled federally (probably due to that federal bill on scheduling mu-opoiod substances). This was a dude who obviously voted against the bill for making kratom legal in TN. So I'm not sure if those in office are more certain about that federal bill passing more than we are. Could be some fear mongering. Also, it seems like there will be amendments added due to the broad language of the bill. Cross our fingers on that one.

Herbal Salvation is one of my vendors that has a recall. Herbaldom is out and now saying they got a METRIC TON of sub-standard product, which is odd due to timing w/scrutiny from FDA recalls, now that I think about it their product last fall was sub-standard, perhaps it has been high in lead and low in the good stuff? Acadica has also gone on hiatus or eternal termination with a "We'll be back soon".

[michaelconstipe]

One bag of Acadica White Kali has gritty sand-like substance in it to the taste. This is why we need free discussion of vendors on places like Reddit, to spread the word of possible contamination, also preventing vendors from keeping your money without sending your ordered kratom, as I have read rumors of this happening already, not tied to any specific vendor.

[BallzDeep9]

Herbal Salvation is one of my vendors that has a recall. Herbaldom is out ...

A few vendors are involved with the FDA in recalls: Herbal Salvation, Soap Korner aka "SK Herbalist", and Gaia aka Triangle Pharmanaturals, Llc. also Kraken/ Phytoextractum, aka PDX Aromatics. OK so... stay away from these vendors!!

Those are all big vendors, why? Because they all have lots & lots of buyers who think their kratom is good... No. Their kratom is NOT good. And that goes for Herbal Salvation too, all those vendors did "At one time" have good product. All of those vendors have been in business, for many years!!

TWO other large vendors, SoCal Herbal Remedies, and Herbaldom, also discussed here have announced voluntary "recalls" of tons of kratom. SoCal gives updates on their Facebook page. Herbaldom has a Blog on their website.

Anybody see the "common" thing with all those vendors? They're all big boys, moving lots of product. Which means.. they Import tons of product. Which probably means... Quality Control ain't so easy when you're dealing with 500 Kilo loads. They import A Container at a time!!

Now follow this... BOTH SoCal and Herbaldom have announced investing in big new facilities. FDA approved GMP processing facility, with full testing, milling, sifting, packaging, etc. So they can import and sell even MORE huge quantity of leaf... Why? Because the public wants to buy Walmart kratom that is cGMP and government approved?

It seems to me... IF there's a lesson here ? Its that BIG vendors lose their ability to control quality? I look around, and see "boutique" vendors, who buy in smaller lots from multiple suppliers: Botanical Bunny, DG Botanicals, Kats Botanicals, Kratom-OG, Okie Kratom, Oregon Kratom, Precious Mitre, Treasure House, are a few good examples .. I don't hear about any QC problems with those guys? Together, they sell a ton of product but it's imported in small batches. They frequently run out of stock. But none are doing any fancy cGMP bullshit, they do rigorously Test every batch, and I think you could say... Quality is probably higher, on average, compared to the big boys!!

[kratomandmath]

BallzDeep9 you make some great points and obviously you know your shit with this stuff. Just curious though what's problem with vendors trying to comply with cGMP standards aside from costs on the consumer? Given all the negative press on kratom recently, wouldn't it help improve our image if vendors go this route? I'm interested on your opinion on this. Not trying to start some drawn out back and forth conversation haha

[BallzDeep9]

Well, I'm just an observer and consumer here, like most of us.. So many angles to consider! And obviously a lot going on, behind the scenes, so I can't claim any Inside Info here lol As a consumer I want to see kratom remain available, a free market without unnecessary interference from any "forces" government or otherwise. I guess we have to trust AKA and follow their direction, but you know, some ppl have questioned AKA and their motives right? Both AKA and BEA are funded in large part by vendors who do Retail headshop business.

So It's all very interesting, but mostly I'm an observer just like you.. We can put together, known FACTs and try to figure out what is happening, and where things are going over next year.. I didn't mean to sound critical of the cGMP thing, it's my own hangover from reddit I guess, had a few big debates last year. Still believe that much of the FUD is "Isolated Incidents" and (very interested in probability & statistics ) I cite usage numbers that are widely accepted as TRUE: millions of Americans use kratom, now, it's been safely used for many years with very few problems.

I see the hysteria, conspiracy theories, rumor mongering on Facebook, and general BS being spread around and I think, funny, kratom is like everything else these days "Fake News" nobody knows what's real and what's BS anymore? What do you think? - I like this Forum and we could discuss this stuff all day if people wanna participate. I'm on a computer not a phone, I can type pretty fast and I've had some background as a Writer

The FACT that SoCal and Herbaldom, recently announced they're investing $ in new facility and equipment, should give us an idea of what's happening I guess.. whether it's pressure from FDA to become "certified", but remember... last year SoCal and other top vendors, were arguing there's NO WAY they could risk investing money on a grey market product!! Now all of a sudden... SoCal says they're moving into (buying?) a huge new building, and expensive processing equipment. Same with Herbaldom, and others. So... what does that suggest? Are they getting word from FDA or AKA, that kratom has a Green Light and it's now... A rush to become Legit established companies? Which might suggest... Any small vendors who do not become cGMP, will be raided by FDA and shut down? I don't know.

[Arctic_Martian]

Wowwww, I hadn't heard that SoCal and Herbaldom were planning to build regulation-compliant facilities - that's very interesting! You're right, that could explain why some smaller vendors seem to be getting attention from the FDA. If that's truly what's going on then that would be good for us overall, albeit shitty for some of our favorite small-time vendors. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens!

[michaelconstipe]

Well, I'm just an observer and consumer here, like most of us.. So many angles to consider! And obviously a lot going on, behind the scenes, so I can't claim any Inside Info here lol As a consumer I want to see kratom remain available, a free market without unnecessary interference from any "forces" government or otherwise. I guess we have to trust AKA and follow their direction, but you know, some ppl have questioned AKA and their motives right? Both AKA and BEA are funded in large part by vendors who do Retail headshop business.

So It's all very interesting, but mostly I'm an observer just like you.. We can put together, known FACTs and try to figure out what is happening, and where things are going over next year.. I didn't mean to sound critical of the cGMP thing, it's my own hangover from reddit I guess, had a few big debates last year. Still believe that much of the FUD is "Isolated Incidents" and (very interested in probability & statistics ) I cite usage numbers that are widely accepted as TRUE: millions of Americans use kratom, now, it's been safely used for many years with very few problems.

I see the hysteria, conspiracy theories, rumor mongering on Facebook, and general BS being spread around and I think, funny, kratom is like everything else these days "Fake News" nobody knows what's real and what's BS anymore? What do you think? - I like this Forum and we could discuss this stuff all day if people wanna participate. I'm on a computer not a phone, I can type pretty fast and I've had some background as a Writer

The FACT that SoCal and Herbaldom, recently announced they're investing $ in new facility and equipment, should give us an idea of what's happening I guess.. whether it's pressure from FDA to become "certified", but remember... last year SoCal and other top vendors, were arguing there's NO WAY they could risk investing money on a grey market product!! Now all of a sudden... SoCal says they're moving into (buying?) a huge new building, and expensive processing equipment. Same with Herbaldom, and others. So... what does that suggest? Are they getting word from FDA or AKA, that kratom has a Green Light and it's now... A rush to become Legit established companies? Which might suggest... Any small vendors who do not become cGMP, will be raided by FDA and shut down? I don't know.

You sure Herbaldom is going cGMP or did you confuse them with Herbal Salvation? Herbaldom's website said thanks for all who've been with us over the years, we got a metric ton of bunk, not sure when or if we will return, it sounded like they may be retiring. Acadica was a small discount boutique vendor but they did have quality control issues, right before reddit rules changed they got super good stuff then mediocre stuff that was called "Green jongkong 2", they should have trashed or marked down the stuff instead of adding a "2" onto the name IMHO. Also like I said there was a gritty sand or rock texture in one of my bags, I also remember reading where test results on contaminants were not being released publicly, basically the rumor is that the Kratom sub was pushing cheap kratom high in contaminants, as you know things like lead are highly variable and dangerous in kratom so we want to push vendors that test for and get the lowest possible lead, like Herbal Salvation prior to the recall. I am not aware of Botanical Bunny doing any testing for contaminants but I haven't asked yet. I am not aware of any small boutique kratom vendors that test for heavy metals. Does KOG? I'm thinking about ordering from them if they do test for contaminants and share the results.

[e_poison]

Now follow this... BOTH SoCal and Herbaldom have announced investing in big new facilities. FDA approved GMP processing facility, with full testing, milling, sifting, packaging, etc. So they can import and sell even MORE huge quantity of leaf... Why? Because the public wants to buy Walmart kratom that is cGMP and government approved?

VERY interesting piece of information right here. I feel we were heading for more stricter regulation rather than an all out ban. I've discussed this privately with several others over the past 6 months. I feel it will ultimately boil down to what states want to do, but I don't think a federal ban is happening.