kratom alternative

[jaybird]

does anyone know any decent legal kratom alternatives?
i cant get it in my sate anymore. . i am in my early 40s, have had depression last 20yrs, last 10 yrs have been the worst, i started taking kratom a year back and it really helps my depression. i have tried other antidepressants in the past and nothing ever worked, bad mood swings, felt high/drunk,cant sleep, etc. kraton was nothing like that, i didnt feel "good" like i was on something, i just didnt feel like my life was hopeless, i stopped yelling at people. i dont know what i am going to do without it. just once, for the first time ever in my life there was hope for a better life, now its gone and right back to ground zero. as much as i liked it and as much as it has made a difference in my life, i am not ready to go to jail for trying to buy it, i have a wife and kids and i cant put them through that.

[FireK]

Try smileys premium hirsuta or any hirsuta….also javanica and CBD could help

[BallzDeep9]

What's The Law say there in Arkansas? Most of these ban states, mainly banned retail sales. They don't want gas stations selling it to high-school kids. I don't have much good to say about Arkansas and other Red states... But its not like weed even? They are not kicking down doors, with dogs trained to sniff kratom, I don't think so!

What is your risk by simple possession. ?? Depending on where you're at in the state.. Buy a mail drop across the border. Order a bunch of supplies there, and then order a split kilo of kratom. Have the vendor double-bag, and ship in a Box. Your only risk, is driving back home and what are chances you'd get in a car wreck, or, somehow have the cops stop you and search your entire vehicle? Chance about 1 in 500,000 ?

I watch and wager on the dog-racing at Southland Greyhound Park, located in West Memphis

[jaybird]

Try smileys premium hirsuta or any hirsuta….also javanica and CBD could help

i read some about the first 2.
whats CBD?

[jaybird]

What's The Law say there in Arkansas? Most of these ban states, mainly banned retail sales. They don't want gas stations selling it to high-school kids. I don't have much good to say about Arkansas and other Red states... But its not like weed even? They are not kicking down doors, with dogs trained to sniff kratom, I don't think so!

What is your risk by simple possession. ?? Depending on where you're at in the state.. Buy a mail drop across the border. Order a bunch of supplies there, and then order a split kilo of kratom. Have the vendor double-bag, and ship in a Box. Your only risk, is driving back home and what are chances you'd get in a car wreck, or, somehow have the cops stop you and search your entire vehicle? Chance about 1 in 500,000 ?

I watch and wager on the dog-racing at Southland Greyhound Park, located in West Memphis

i am all for a safe solution to get kratom. but before i say more, can that be discussed in the forums? i made a thread about this very thing yesterday and it was removed. and i have also been kicked from reddit for asking about this. and all i asked about was what options do i have, i have never asked anyone to smuggle anything for me. i dont want anyone doing anything illegal.

as far as the laws here, i really dont know. i saw it mentioned as a schedule 1 drug. but i dont know if that was a fact. i have read of two people arrested. one was arrested for DWI and also had kratom in his car. another had like 50 lbs of multiple drugs, sold drugs, and of all those drugs one happened to be kratom.
i have yet to find one incident of anyone getting arrested for possessing kratom, and only kratom.
there is one simple thing that bothers me to no end. i took kratom for a year, it does not get me high, i dont feel like i am drunk, laughing, floating in the clouds, so i just cant understand how anyone could say this is a scheduled 1 drug like heroin or meth. it makes no sense.

[CatfatherB]

Along with the Hirsuta and Javanica, maybe look into adaptogens like Ashwagandha or Rhodiola Rosea if you need to reduce your intake of kratom because of your situation?

I gotta agree with Ballz, what are they gonna do? Bust in your door down and ask? "Where's the stash"?

[KurtisCards]

What about moving? It's a little extreme, but when I lived in colorado and weed was legalized, the state got flooded with people.

If it has a significant positive impact on your quality of life, it should definitely be a consideration. Kratom helps me immensely, and I know all to well about the garbage that is "Anti-depressants" or benzos.

[mivanqua]

What's The Law say there in Arkansas? Most of these ban states, mainly banned retail sales. They don't want gas stations selling it to high-school kids. I don't have much good to say about Arkansas and other Red states... But its not like weed even? They are not kicking down doors, with dogs trained to sniff kratom, I don't think so!

What is your risk by simple possession. ?? Depending on where you're at in the state.. Buy a mail drop across the border. Order a bunch of supplies there, and then order a split kilo of kratom. Have the vendor double-bag, and ship in a Box. Your only risk, is driving back home and what are chances you'd get in a car wreck, or, somehow have the cops stop you and search your entire vehicle? Chance about 1 in 500,000 ?

I watch and wager on the dog-racing at Southland Greyhound Park, located in West Memphis

i am all for a safe solution to get kratom. but before i say more, can that be discussed in the forums? i made a thread about this very thing yesterday and it was removed. and i have also been kicked from reddit for asking about this. and all i asked about was what options do i have, i have never asked anyone to smuggle anything for me. i dont want anyone doing anything illegal.

as far as the laws here, i really dont know. i saw it mentioned as a schedule 1 drug. but i dont know if that was a fact. i have read of two people arrested. one was arrested for DWI and also had kratom in his car. another had like 50 lbs of multiple drugs, sold drugs, and of all those drugs one happened to be kratom.
i have yet to find one incident of anyone getting arrested for possessing kratom, and only kratom.
there is one simple thing that bothers me to no end. i took kratom for a year, it does not get me high, i dont feel like i am drunk, laughing, floating in the clouds, so i just cant understand how anyone could say this is a scheduled 1 drug like heroin or meth. it makes no sense.

I was wonderimg what happened to.that post! You are absolutely right. The laws are getting ridiculous and obviously "industry friendly!"
They are supposed to let people VOTE on these things, but I guess they don't because THEY KNOW they would lose. Its complete bullshit, and as it says on the Mitragenie website, it is PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE to abuse kratom recreationally. I'm sorry you're going through this, and my answer to your original post was not fitting to your situation as drug addiction isn't your issue so its just as well it was stricken from the record and deemed inadmissible. Ballz PO box in another state is likely the best alternative. Those in power are getting a little big for their britches and I think America as a whole is pretty fed up with the bullshit as Guru once said. The bottom line is : do what you need to do. The suits don't, nor will they EVER live in your skin.

[jaybird]

What about moving? It's a little extreme, but when I lived in colorado and weed was legalized, the state got flooded with people.

If it has a significant positive impact on your quality of life, it should definitely be a consideration. Kratom helps me immensely, and I know all to well about the garbage that is "Anti-depressants" or benzos.

i wish i could but i have five dependents, 5.5 counting myself, 2 of my kids are young, not sure its an option. its nice to daydream about, waking up in rural Italy every morning, bella giornata . . . .

[jaybird]

What's The Law say there in Arkansas? Most of these ban states, mainly banned retail sales. They don't want gas stations selling it to high-school kids. I don't have much good to say about Arkansas and other Red states... But its not like weed even? They are not kicking down doors, with dogs trained to sniff kratom, I don't think so!

What is your risk by simple possession. ?? Depending on where you're at in the state.. Buy a mail drop across the border. Order a bunch of supplies there, and then order a split kilo of kratom. Have the vendor double-bag, and ship in a Box. Your only risk, is driving back home and what are chances you'd get in a car wreck, or, somehow have the cops stop you and search your entire vehicle? Chance about 1 in 500,000 ?

I watch and wager on the dog-racing at Southland Greyhound Park, located in West Memphis

i am all for a safe solution to get kratom. but before i say more, can that be discussed in the forums? i made a thread about this very thing yesterday and it was removed. and i have also been kicked from reddit for asking about this. and all i asked about was what options do i have, i have never asked anyone to smuggle anything for me. i dont want anyone doing anything illegal.

as far as the laws here, i really dont know. i saw it mentioned as a schedule 1 drug. but i dont know if that was a fact. i have read of two people arrested. one was arrested for DWI and also had kratom in his car. another had like 50 lbs of multiple drugs, sold drugs, and of all those drugs one happened to be kratom.
i have yet to find one incident of anyone getting arrested for possessing kratom, and only kratom.
there is one simple thing that bothers me to no end. i took kratom for a year, it does not get me high, i dont feel like i am drunk, laughing, floating in the clouds, so i just cant understand how anyone could say this is a scheduled 1 drug like heroin or meth. it makes no sense.

I was wonderimg what happened to.that post! You are absolutely right. The laws are getting ridiculous and obviously "industry friendly!"
They are supposed to let people VOTE on these things, but I guess they don't because THEY KNOW they would lose. Its complete bullshit, and as it says on the Mitragenie website, it is PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE to abuse kratom recreationally. I'm sorry you're going through this, and my answer to your original post was not fitting to your situation as drug addiction isn't your issue so its just as well it was stricken from the record and deemed inadmissible. Ballz PO box in another state is likely the best alternative. Those in power are getting a little big for their britches and I think America as a whole is pretty fed up with the bullshit as Guru once said. The bottom line is : do what you need to do. The suits don't, nor will they EVER live in your skin.

this country is getting pretty bad, we lose more and more freedoms every day, more trivial laws get passed every day, more "for profit" prisons get built every day, millions of dollars goes to washington supporting bigger incarcerations. its pretty scary. i have a teen that just started college, she already took french and been to europe, we are encouraging her to learn more about europe and foreign languages. and will do the same for my 2 younger ones, hopefully they can make a better life in europe. i dont want them to have to live here.

i dont remember your other post. was it on the thread i started that got removed? dont repeat what you said, you might get us all busted! do they have PMs here?

[patchy]

I'm a new poster but have been lurking for a while as I get acquainted with kratom and because wd symptoms and functionality has been a major concern I've been researching to develop a backup plan. I post this for the OP who is restricted in options and for anyone else interested. Pretty phenomenal supporting documentation from MD's who used high dose vitamins to treat their patients and were suppressed from reporting their amazing results in medical journals. Here's the sites; doctoryourself.com and orthomolecular.org where you can use the search box with keywords to pull up docs and archived records containing the topic, and where I got the following;

"Opiate Addiciton: When vitamin C "is administered at 25,000 to 85,000 mg per day or more, along with high doses of multivitamins . . . the heroin or methadone is stopped and no withdrawal symptoms are encountered." The research source is free access at http://orthomolecular.org/library/jom/1 ... -p3000.pdf It was published 42 years ago, and ignored. We do not have an "opioid crisis." We have a disinformation crisis"

http://www.doctoryourself.com/desperation.html

There's currently a free video series explaining high dose vitamin therapy at https://vitaminmasterclass.com/ the docs and info on the sites provide full info on how to take the vitamin C to get to the higher levels and when to drop down to lower for maintenance after your body's stores of C are full and why they become low in the first place.
This relates to pain, wd, depression, anxiety, sleep, nervous system and more.

[BallzDeep9]

Pretty phenomenal supporting documentation from MD's who used high dose vitamins to treat their patients and were suppressed from reporting their amazing results in medical journals.

Welcome to MM patchy. High dose vitamins? This has been studied for what.. 50 years at least? . hey.. I'm old enough to remember Julian Whitaker MD and his book Reversing Heart Disease.. mega doses of vitamins.. from back in the 80's. Totally debunked, he's a known quack! And that was long before the Internet.

Now... Unfortunately this guy Andrew Saul, is not a doctor or a scientist.. He's a huckster. A book writer who's selling BS on the Internet. So he's got like 20 websites promoting his crap using SEO marketing... but I did find this - http://mdprevent.blogspot.com/2012/09/c ... -saul.html

In this case, it's Andrew Saul whose PhD, as he describes on his website, doctoryourself.com, hails from a "non-traditional PhD program," from the non-accredited, degree mill called Greenwich University. His degree in Ethology, which is the scientific study of animal behavior, apparently makes him an expert comfortable telling people to "Doctor Yourself" and "Fire Your Doctor," two of his book titles.

I was asked to consider the writings of Saul based on his apparent success as a prolific author and proponent of dietary supplements. The little I have read so far leads me to best describe his writing as gibberish, not worthy of further contemplation.

[The Relaxed Guy]

Mitragyna Hirsuta is your best bet for alternatives. It’s extremely similar as far as effects - pretty much any medicinal benefits kratom serves you, will be served by Hirsuta as well. It will also stave off any related withdrawals.

I actually remember reading a post on reddit about M. Hirsuta, and the guy said that in some ways, it’s effects were superior to M. Speciosa. Like it’s pain relief and anxiety relief were superior, but euphoria was far inferior. It’s almost like Hirsuta is superior medicinally, but inferior recreationally.

As far as your specific predicament - I too live in a banned state. Actually, I live in probably the single worst state in the country for drug laws. Kratom is considered a synthetic fentanyl anologue here and punished extremely harshly.

Being said, I just ship to post offices at the border of neighboring states. It’s like a 2 hour round trip, so I just order split kilos and make the drive every couple months. Unless you live in the dead center of a very large state, you should never be more than an hour or two from the border of another state.

These laws against kratom are retarded, and can be a major headache, but fortunately you have options.

[jaybird]

Mitragyna Hirsuta is your best bet for alternatives. It’s extremely similar as far as effects - pretty much any medicinal benefits kratom serves you, will be served by Hirsuta as well. It will also stave off any related withdrawals.

I actually remember reading a post on reddit about M. Hirsuta, and the guy said that in some ways, it’s effects were superior to M. Speciosa. Like it’s pain relief and anxiety relief were superior, but euphoria was far inferior. It’s almost like Hirsuta is superior medicinally, but inferior recreationally.

As far as your specific predicament - I too live in a banned state. Actually, I live in probably the single worst state in the country for drug laws. Kratom is considered a synthetic fentanyl anologue here and punished extremely harshly.

Being said, I just ship to post offices at the border of neighboring states. It’s like a 2 hour round trip, so I just order split kilos and make the drive every couple months. Unless you live in the dead center of a very large state, you should never be more than an hour or two from the border of another state.

These laws against kratom are retarded, and can be a major headache, but fortunately you have options.

i agree the laws are retarded. i didnt know what scheduled 1 drug was. it means a drug that has no health benefit. so what if it has no benefit, the issue should be does it give you brain damage, put you in a coma, kill you. coffee and chocolate have no health benefit, are they schedule 1 drugs, of course not.

[patchy]

Hey Ballzdeep,
I'm not going to get into debate other than to say it's clear you haven't read any of the clinical docs archived on orthomolecular.org which is where saul gets his info. He's just trying to keep this suppressed knowledge alive. Vitamin therapy has not been 'debunked' other than by surface level propaganda of those with financial and other agendas. I intend to put this to the test and will post my findings after I try this high dose vitamin C at 25gram level for getting off rx opiates without wd symptoms and that includes PAWS malingering depression symptoms which is my main concern after 12 years on rx pain pills. My only agenda is seeking health, well being and freedom from this bondage. Peace.

[BallzDeep9]

Hey Ballzdeep, Vitamin therapy has not been 'debunked' other than by surface level propaganda of those with financial and other agendas ..

Well I encourage you to review the history of Dr. Whitaker, and other quacks.. Financial gain, what do you think Saul is doing? He's only writing books for money. As far as the science, Linus Pauling comes to mind.. I did not google that. Here's a useful study from Cathcart, 1981. Mega dosing of Vitamin C has been studied extensively.. This chart gives you an idea of bowel tolerance. I hope you don't get diarrhea!! And only wish you luck - https://vitamincfoundation.org/www.orth ... itrate.htm

I DO take Vitamin C with my kratom daily.. Please Report back, on your findings of combo kratom / with Vitamin C, thanks!

[beathappening]

Overdosing vitamin c is pointless...only a small amount gets absorbed and the rest gets flushed out in the urine. Taking thousands of milligrams is literally a waste. Even things like airborne that claim to speed up or prevent colds are bullshit..all that extra vitamin c goes right down the toilet. Sorry patch but this is a scam and the "doctor" is a known quack. Similar to the guy that claims fungus is the cause for all cancer. Taking "too many" vitamins will not cure withdrawal but you're welcome to try, but please do some legitimate research so you don't hurt yourself, taking too much vitamin a or zinc for example can do serious harm

[mivanqua]

Overdosing vitamin c is pointless...only a small amount gets absorbed and the rest gets flushed out in the urine. Taking thousands of milligrams is literally a waste. Even things like airborne that claim to speed up or prevent colds are bullshit..all that extra vitamin c goes right down the toilet. Sorry patch but this is a scam and the "doctor" is a known quack. Similar to the guy that claims fungus is the cause for all cancer. Taking "too many" vitamins will not cure withdrawal but you're welcome to try, but please do some legitimate research so you don't hurt yourself, taking too much vitamin a or zinc for example can do serious harm

This is.GREAT advice and I always urge others to DO THEIR DUE DILIGENCE! Not knowing something is NO EXCUSE.

[BallzDeep9]

Taking "too many" vitamins will not cure withdrawal but you're welcome to try, ...

yeah, its been said, taking Mega dose of vitamins, will only give you "very expensive urine" ... pissing your money away!

[mivanqua]

Taking "too many" vitamins will not cure withdrawal but you're welcome to try, ...

yeah, its been said, taking Mega dose of vitamins, will only give you "very expensive urine" ... pissing your money away!

Here's the thing though, and everyone here who's been through this knows. If you're in opiate withdrawals, you will try ANYTHING to feel better, especially if you are not just out of money/dry, but WANT to quit. You're hopping on the internet writing a list of ALL THE SHIT people say helps, and then you're at the store buying all of that shit to try JUST TO FEEL LIKE SPEAKING. So, it may work for some and not others, that's the wild card of it. Who knows? Is there anyone here who as actually tried the mega-dose vitamin c withdrawal cure before??

[beathappening]

Kinda OT but,
Not vitamin c but I have taken large doses of Imodium/loperamide while in desperate WD. There seemed to be some physical relief, not much, but in any case it stops the incessant diarrhea. I've heard of people taking megadoses (like 80-100 2mg pills) of it and claim it crosses the blood brain barrier and actually has psychoactive effect, but I've never been willing to take the chance of doing permanent damage. So who knows if it is placebo or what at that point. Anyway, that's the only OTC I've tried that legitimately helped withdrawal from opiates, and I tried MANY during my using periods.