Strange effect from extracts.

[Mr Owls]

Hey everyone! I just made my account, so this is my first post.

I've been taking kratom for the past 2 weeks or a little more. I usually dose 5 or 6 grams twice per day. Some days I use 15 grams total.

I have used kratom in the past a few years ago for 6 months straight and bought plain leaf most of the time. But also enhanced leaf and extracts occasionally. Never tried pure alkaloids back then.

Anyways, I recently got 5 grams of the Co2 Supercritical extract and a 1/2 gram of the pure alkaloids from Caleb's Concentrates to try out. But they don't seem to have much of an effect on me or maybe not as strong as I thought they would be?

I tried doing 3 grams of plain leaf with half a gram of the Co2 supercritical first. It was pretty underwhelming. I waited about 30-40 mins before I added 2 more grams of regular leaf and I started feeling better.
Later that night I tried again but with 4 grams of regular leaf and then 1.5 grams of the Co2 Supercritical. It seemed like it didnt add much at all. I felt more awake and anxious and my body still felt cold and I just felt like I couldnt get comfortable. I ended up just feeling slightly anxious and was awake until around 4am. (I usually was asleep by midnight before i tried the extract)

The next day I woke up late in the afternoon and still felt kind of off. When I took my dose this day I tried the pure alkaloids. I used 100mg with 3 grams of plain leaf.
I couldn't tell a difference with the pure alkaloids but still waited one hour hoping it would kick in more or something. But I ended up needing to take 2 or 3 more grams of plain leaf.

(I started thinking maybe its the ceiling effect or something. But I don't think my tolerance is that high.)
(I also remember a few years ago when I used extracts and would feel much better and have that warm and cozy blanket feeling and it felt nice to just lay down and watch a movie.)

Later that day I was thinking maybe I just dosed too low with the pure alkaloids. So i tried 200mg of the pure alkaloids and 3 grams of plain leaf. It seemed to help a bit more and I didn't need to take more plain leaf.
But again my only problem was I felt super awake and slighty anxious and irritable. I thought maybe I took too much this time?

I always use red or green strains. Maybe the extracts are made with white strains?
Iv'e never had any bad experiences with kratom before except for the eye wobbles a couple times years ago.

I only remember extracts adding more sedation and relaxation.

So now today I plan on taking kratom soon but I'm not sure if I should try one of the extracts again, or just stick with plain leaf. I might just wait to try in the evening just in case.

Does anyone else have or had anything similar to this happen to them?
I need some help or suggestions on how I should use these.

[the_spookiest]

i would say if you can , use regular leaf for a few days. see what you like when trying an even 4g dose 3x a day vs 6g 2x.....some stuff just doesnt hit as hard. What extracts do you have prior experience with? Caleb's stuff...well, idk. The last couple times I've randomly checked his stock, he has been almost all out. There is a chance of waning quality with these sorts of things due to his leaf source (Gaia) and whatever THEY are getting in. I have never blasted off from any of his extracts, they have just evened out a smaller dose to pad it out if it isnt the best leaf i've got.
another thing to try is, after 12hrs minimum between servings, try ~2g of leaf and 1.5g supercrit. if you still feel the weird way you do after trying...might be time to accept it as something that doesn't mesh with you. If anything, be happy that your tolerance allows you to use only leaf to get the effects you are looking for ! thats awesome. something about extracts removing a bunch of other alkaloids that sort of round out the Kratom effect,

good luck, someone else may have a better idea

[CatfatherB]

i would say if you can , use regular leaf for a few days. see what you like when trying an even 4g dose 3x a day vs 6g 2x.....some stuff just doesnt hit as hard. What extracts do you have prior experience with? Caleb's stuff...well, idk. The last couple times I've randomly checked his stock, he has been almost all out. There is a chance of waning quality with these sorts of things due to his leaf source (Gaia) and whatever THEY are getting in. I have never blasted off from any of his extracts, they have just evened out a smaller dose to pad it out if it isnt the best leaf i've got.
another thing to try is, after 12hrs minimum between servings, try ~2g of leaf and 1.5g supercrit. if you still feel the weird way you do after trying...might be time to accept it as something that doesn't mesh with you. If anything, be happy that your tolerance allows you to use only leaf to get the effects you are looking for ! thats awesome. something about extracts removing a bunch of other alkaloids that sort of round out the Kratom effect,

good luck, someone else may have a better idea

Not sure that he uses Gaia anymore, I know it was said years ago he did but not sure about that now?

[the_spookiest]

true, probably assumptive on my end. His address is still based in a location where he can grab leaf in person from them, but that doesn't mean anything ultimately.

either way, I've ordered 4 times from caleb. The quality of his extract didnt seem to change but the way my body felt that over time greatly diminished. I never experienced the same physiological feelings that the OP discussed

[BallzDeep9]

I've been taking kratom for the past 2 weeks or a little more. I usually dose 5 or 6 grams twice per day. Some days I use 15 grams total.

I have used kratom in the past a few years ago for 6 months straight and bought plain leaf most of the time. But also enhanced leaf and extracts occasionally.

Welcome to MM, thanks for background, as we know kratom has a tolerance issue .. seems a large # of people abuse the leaf for various reasons so there's constant reports of kratom "not working" and that's usually blamed on the vendor or strain etc etc

I agree: STOP taking any extracts, just do your regular plain leaf serving, a few days, and note how it feels... IF you're getting very tired or "interdose withdrawal" and or kratom just makes U feel normal, otherwise U feel shitty ~ Then U are paying price for a binge & simply using too much kratom? Two weeks isn't a long time but imo possible to max out your receptors quickly w/ extract use.

I had to totally re-adjust after doing about the same, 5 to 7 gram servings, couple times a day. Now I'm down around 2 gram servings it feels great & I have enough headroom I can go up just 1 gram and get really bombed. Maxing out receptors daily there's nowhere to go but down, i.e. Lose the feeling, then you're faced with doing a re-set or break... Daily use is really a management/ maintenance thing jmho

I have bought Caleb's extract products they are good quality, but way 2 expensive for my taste. (For those who don't know: Pure Alkaloids $35 for 1 gram.) There is a problem with destroying tolerance. Any Mitragyna extract is still a partial agonist... Doing more & more Mitragyna doesn't give you more good effects, it has a built-in ceiling, its very misunderstood.

[Jestrice2002]

I agree, Ballz. I wish more people realized this. I've always stayed away from extracts, and I've never had an issue in the 9 years I've been doing this. It kills me when people blame a vendor/strain - especially multiples. It usually comes with an explanation that includes the obvious issue. Tolerance is hardly ever addressed.

[BallzDeep9]

Tolerance is hardly ever addressed.

that's right Jestrice U look on Reddit all these questions about usage, many n00bs & then as expected a bunch will start bragging about their 30, 40 gpd habits. I can understand someone who's mµ receptors are shot due to years of chronic drug abuse, but good gawd...

Caleb's has been Sold Out almost every time I check their website. Just looked, LINK & sure enough the Co2 is out, and his Pure Alks only a half gram left... My impression is? He sells out fast, within days after a re-stock.. He's on Facebook = CB Botanicals. Their Son just celebrated 1st birthday! - imo his Alks are comparable to, the best on the market. see Carolina Kratom, or Legal Herb Shoppe to compare.. people with money, absolutely love this stuff & his $35 per Gram (10 servings @ 100 mg per dose) so, $3.50 per dose (or $7 for a double shot!) would compare to any Retail extract like OPMS or MIT-45, or Viva-Zen, etc. sell for around $15 to 20 bucks for 1 shot.

[Jestrice2002]

Tolerance is hardly ever addressed.

that's right Jestrice U look on Reddit all these questions about usage, many n00bs & then as expected a bunch will start bragging about their 30, 40 gpd habits. I can understand someone who's mµ receptors are shot due to years of chronic drug abuse, but good gawd...

Caleb's has been Sold Out almost every time I check their website. Just looked, LINK & sure enough the Co2 is out, and his Pure Alks only a half gram left... My impression is? He sells out fast, within days after a re-stock.. He's on Facebook = CB Botanicals. Their Son just celebrated 1st birthday! - imo his Alks are comparable to, the best on the market. see Carolina Kratom, or Legal Herb Shoppe to compare.. people with money, absolutely love this stuff & his $35 per Gram (10 servings @ 100 mg per dose) so, $3.50 per dose (or $7 for a double shot!) would compare to any Retail extract like OPMS or MIT-45, or Viva-Zen, etc. sell for around $15 to 20 bucks for 1 shot.

That's absolutely insane! I see it as a practical decision; I don't see an upside to shelling out for extracts. Apparently, though, a ton of others do!

[Mr Owls]

Thank you for all the responses and suggestions everyone.
I have been sticking to just plain leaf. I'll save the extracts for another time.

But I forgot to say in the original post that I'm using kratom again to help with suboxone withdrawals.

Kratom has been working great and I'm surprised I don't need to high of a dose. I guess since i was able to ween my suboxone dose pretty low that helped.

I will say that when I did use the extracts it did make the effects of the kratom last just about 24 hours before I started feeling any withdrawals, Caleb's stuff is really good.

I figured extracts would just be helpful for the first week or so of withdrawals. But I'll be extra careful in the future with it.



I saw someone asked what extracts I used in the past. But most of that was in 2015-2016 with a website called RelaxRemedy. I think they changed to AwakenRelaxation now, but they have high prices and I haven't made an order from them in years. But they had a "UEX 90% 100:1 red borneo with 10% pure alkaloids" also some stuff called "Blue Label Extract" that I enjoyed a lot.

Anyways, I actually had 8 ounces of kratom left from SoCal Herbal Remedies (I saw they had to go under a new name now because of a lawsuit) plus I had a 5 gram bad of "100:1 red vein extract" from them as well left that I used before I ordered new kratom from Krabot (I like using capsules) and then I decided to go with Calebs for the extracts a week or so later.

I was taking 3 grams of plain leaf with either 1 or 2 grams of the SoCal 100:1 red vein extract at night to help the rls and insomnia.
Doing that helped a lot and I was able to sleep good for the first week of withdrawals. I still have some trouble sleeping at night so I thought I would try adding extract on the bad nights.

I've always been aware of how it can ruin tolerance fast, especially if you use it everyday. I don't plan on using it too much and hoping to not need kratom forever either haha.

Thank you all again for your help!

[the_spookiest]

duuuuuuude that is a massive thing to leave out lmao

I forgot to say in the original post that I'm using kratom again to help with suboxone withdrawals.

this is probably the biggest factor effecting the way you are feeling this plant. are you aware of how long the half-life for buprenorphine is?
your brain will still have stuff bound to receptors for a very long time. the obscene doses ppl get put on like 16mg a day....if they were to stop suddenly, it'd be almost a month. Hopefully you tapered down and jumped below 2mg...but at how strong the affinity this drug has for your receptors, a lot of stuff wont break through to provide anything other an 'normalization' which can feel like a high when coming back from negative stasis.

as time goes on and you keep using leaf, you would hopefully feel better and better. after 21 days of no subs i would suggest seeing how long (5 days? 7 days?) you can go with nothing, or at best two 1g servings a day (morning and before bed)...this reset wont be awful and will help u sort of start fresh with a kratom-ready body.

all the people saying it will ruin your tolerance are correct, as long as we are talking about someone with a normal serving of 4g suddenly adding 100mg of pure alk. absolutely! supplementing less powder for equal amounts of extract does not effect tolerance the way fearmongers believe it does. 100mg of caleb's pure stuff is a big serving!! I used to simply take 2.5g leaf and add about 50mg, bringing me up to what would be the equivalent of about 5.5g which is basically my sweet spot.

food can make you fat if you eat more than your body needs, or you don't use the correct fuels. if i ate dessert on top of what i normally eat today, i would gain weight. if i supplement half my lunch with a snickers bar, i might not be getting the nutrients i need, but my caloric intake is the same and i feel just as full as i want to.

[Jestrice2002]

Yeah, that's definitely important context!

[BallzDeep9]

duuuuuuude that is a massive thing to leave out lmao

I forgot to say in the original post that I'm using kratom again to help with suboxone withdrawals.

wow.. so this WHOLE discussion, is someone trying to MIX kratom with suboxone? Then complaining he can't feel it? Wonder Why.

[Mr Owls]

duuuuuuude that is a massive thing to leave out lmao

I forgot to say in the original post that I'm using kratom again to help with suboxone withdrawals.

wow.. so this WHOLE discussion, is someone trying to MIX kratom with suboxone? Then complaining he can't feel it? Wonder Why.

No, not at all. You just assumed that. I stopped taking suboxone two weeks ago...

Im talking about using kratom to HELP with WITHDRAWALS not using them together.

[Mr Owls]

duuuuuuude that is a massive thing to leave out lmao

I forgot to say in the original post that I'm using kratom again to help with suboxone withdrawals.

this is probably the biggest factor effecting the way you are feeling this plant. are you aware of how long the half-life for buprenorphine is?
your brain will still have stuff bound to receptors for a very long time. the obscene doses ppl get put on like 16mg a day....if they were to stop suddenly, it'd be almost a month. Hopefully you tapered down and jumped below 2mg...but at how strong the affinity this drug has for your receptors, a lot of stuff wont break through to provide anything other an 'normalization' which can feel like a high when coming back from negative stasis.

as time goes on and you keep using leaf, you would hopefully feel better and better. after 21 days of no subs i would suggest seeing how long (5 days? 7 days?) you can go with nothing, or at best two 1g servings a day (morning and before bed)...this reset wont be awful and will help u sort of start fresh with a kratom-ready body.

all the people saying it will ruin your tolerance are correct, as long as we are talking about someone with a normal serving of 4g suddenly adding 100mg of pure alk. absolutely! supplementing less powder for equal amounts of extract does not effect tolerance the way fearmongers believe it does. 100mg of caleb's pure stuff is a big serving!! I used to simply take 2.5g leaf and add about 50mg, bringing me up to what would be the equivalent of about 5.5g which is basically my sweet spot.

food can make you fat if you eat more than your body needs, or you don't use the correct fuels. if i ate dessert on top of what i normally eat today, i would gain weight. if i supplement half my lunch with a snickers bar, i might not be getting the nutrients i need, but my caloric intake is the same and i feel just as full as i want to.

I hear ya. Idk how to quote exact parts but yeah I totally agree with how it strong it binds to receptors and everything, I'm pretty well educated on suboxone. But yes I did taper a lot, I was able to taper down to .125mg twice per day and then some days just .125mg once per day. So in total for the last month I was on it I was taking .25mg per day at the most.

I haven't had any suboxone in a little over 2 weeks.

But yeah that makes sense, I may have just dosed too high with the pure alks.
I haven't taken any suboxone in a little over two weeks now.

[the_spookiest]

well, since you have now omitted telling us your sub use or jump-off dose (rapid taper is different from a slow titration down to crumbs) we wouldnt really know if 2 weeks in you still have bupe on your receptors. could be some, could be a little. medicine isnt just like a blind dart toss of effect, there is a lot of info needed in order to accurately give someone advice.

[LeafersonJr32]

Bupe does very strange things to the chemistry of your brain and creates very long lasting changes to your brain chemistry, Give it a week or two more and then all of the bupe should pretty much be gone, but keep in mind bupe jacks up your receptors tolerance by a ton bc it is so extremely sticky even though it is only a partial. I guarantee you that it will be a hundred times easier coming off with kratom than without it.