Question about taking kratom before “surgery”

Post by **KurtisCards** » Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:29 am

I have to get wisdom teeth out, and if I choose the sedation option they said to not Eat or drink anything for 6 hours or something before hand.

Think I could take kratom and be fine?

Also has anyone had bad interactions with kratom and Iv sedation?

Post by **BallzDeep9** » Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:24 pm

Conscious sedation dentistry, includes any oral sedation OR "IV sedation" either way... you're still conscious. This isn't like heart surgery where you're totally put under. Dental sedation uses a benzo, typically a strong dose of Valium.

Then once you're very relaxed, they inject your jaw with a whopping shot of Novocaine, and your entire face goes numb

Discuss with your Dentist. He may likely give you, an opioid pain reliever before surgery... Take that orally 1 hour before. Just ask your Dentist if that's OK or recommended... to take a oxycodone/ hydrocodone. It should be OK.

Oxy is a stronger pain reliever... Kratom has alkaloids that are opioid antagonists and kratom is known to interfere with opioids., ask experienced opiate folks. You can't or shouldn't mix kratom with pain pills, like Oxy or hydro etc.

Consider a 1 day "switch" from kratom to Oxy?

You didn't say your daily kratom gpd, and you didn't say how many # Days until your surgery... I would advise a rapid taper down from kratom, as fast and low as possible. Ideally 2+ days clean of kratom? Then take Oxy or hydro 1+ hour before. Even without the Oxy switch, a taper down on kratom will up-regulate your receptors... So the day after, your best kratom will work for pain.

Only posting because I've had every kind of painful Root Canal and Extraction you can imagine.

Bottom line, Oxy works better than kratom, but otherwise just taper down your kratom and let their IV Valium do it's job. Kratom should not interfere with the Valium. But we don't know exactly how kratom MAY possibly, interfere with the Novocaine (Procain) shot local anaesthetic?

Relax. The whole thing is OVER in an hour... During the surgery, you're barely conscious, mouth open, Dentist will give you a shot and wait. Dentist will make sure you're totally numb, he will poke directly into a nerve... you feel a dull poke or nothing. He's making damn sure you are numb! In your Valium haze you may feel dull pressure, but if there's ANY pain just make a sound (your mouth open, just go "Uhhhh") and they'll stop. Any pain will ONLY be for 1 second. At that point, he'll stop and give you another Shot, and wait again for that to kick in... I remember a Dentist joking "Oh, I guess you're a 2-shot guy!" My point is.... Relax. Trust the Dentist will have you pain free. Before you know, it's OVER and of course you'll have a ride home. Easy!

Reddit Search: https://old.reddit.com/r/kratom/search? ... over_18=on

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_sedation_dentistry

Post by **TheStanman** » Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:16 pm

Wisdom teeth removal is often done by an oral surgeon and includes full anesthesia. Sounds like that's what the OP is doing.

There are two concerns - risk of asphyxiation from vomit (hence no food and drink) and drug interaction. Modern guidelines suggest you can have clear liquids until 2 hours before but most doctors play it safe. Drug risk is low but I prefer not to risk.

What I do is drink a strained kratom tea 4 - 6 hours before the operation. This is a clear liquid and kratom will have died down some. This has worked for me. For a colonoscopy, I drink only strained tea the day before as well.

If you're doing what Ballz described and taking an opiate, I would definitely not dose kratom for a while beforehand.

Post by **IndelibleDotInk** » Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:55 pm

I've had the wisdom teeth taken out. Super easy procedure, don't worry, you won't need kratom at all.

Instead of full anesthesia, call the oral surgeon beforehand and ask if they give nitrous oxide, if they do, you are all set, they'll give you a valium and put a little rubber cup over your nose and a sweet smelling mix of laughing gas and oxygen will make you feel like a good red burn with less blanket and more mood boost and very heavy sleeping dreaming state, if that. Basically you just wake up in the chair sometime later very relaxed and feel good but a bit unsteady on the feet. You can bring your ipod and put on music as you drift off, it's an interesting experience to have once.

If they don't use nitrous, and sometimes you have to specifically ask for it, ask about other sedation. This procedure is simple and a good oral surgeon will have you in and out in a jiffy.

It's the aftercare that sucks, and even then you get a nice syringe to irrigate the holes and try not to get a dry socket. Simple but PITA, very pita.

When you use kratom after, make sure to squirt clean the holes from the powder.

Post by **BallzDeep9** » Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:29 pm

IndelibleDotInk wrote:When you use kratom after, make sure to squirt clean the holes from the powder.

Oh that's a good point. Raw powder kratom does contain bacteria, so definitely no Toss N Wash, you'd be real dumb to try that... Use Red Bubble method to make a sanitized, drinkable kratom. Have a few servings ready, cold, in the fridge... measure it out, and drink very carefully.

I often drink my Kratom Tea, with a straw down the back of throat - because I've gotten a black tongue from powder. (Toss N Washers always have black tongue!), BUT after tooth extraction you should NOT use a straw, that's in your Instructions from the Dentist. So... you really need to sanitize your powder!!!

Put a few servings in coffee cup. Add boiled water stir and allow to steep.. 5 minutes at 185º kills bacteria. Add a couple Tsp of lemon juice and/or ACV. Stir it up! pop in freezer overnight. Next day thaw, add your Crystal Light or MiO flavoring & some apple juice, 16 oz beer glass or similar container for keeping in fridge.

Post by **mitragy9** » Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:46 pm

Honestly I wouldn't even take the opioids they give you for after surgery pain,(save them for an emergency) for me kratom has much better analgesia than oxycodone(doubt they will give you this anyways) and is for sure stronger than hydrocodone. These full agonist opioids will obviously get you much higher but don't mess around with that. The other day I took 40mg of hydrocodone and didn't even feel a thing even after 24hours from my last time taking kratom it didn't even help with the minor detox symptoms. Just make sure you make filtered tea during the recovery phase you don't want kratom powder getting stuck into your wounds.

Post by **KurtisCards** » Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:46 am

Im honestly probably not going to go the iv sedation route, as its a lot more money and my insurance sucks. I never toss and wash as i think its kind of a dumb way to essentially mix a drink in your mouth/throat lol

Don't have any opiods on hand to just take whenever, I have taken kratom before having regular extractions done, and everything turned out fine.

Don't have an appointment set up yet, they are going to call me back tomorrow to tell me if my insurance covers any of it (Having my whole mouth worked on, and pretty sure i used up all my benefits already for the year)

Still need to get a crown on my bottom right/front tooth, a partial put in on the bottom, and the whole top to remove for a full denture up top

Gotta love the neglect i had for my health while Iv'ing all those speed balls haha

Post by **IndelibleDotInk** » Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:53 am

Ask for the gas, it's cheaper than full IV, it may be the bottom tier.

Post by **mitragy9** » Tue Sep 22, 2020 1:36 am

A bit off topic but has anyone tried kratom with nitrous oxide? I'd imagine it would be a pretty great combo

Post by **IndelibleDotInk** » Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:33 pm

hey Kurtis, what did you decide to do? Keep those holes clean, you don't want a dry socket.

Post by **LuckyHerbals** » Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:53 pm

I'm tapering off to 0 grams between tomorrow and the 7th. I'm too worried about an interaction with general anesthesia. Just surgery in general worries me! We will see how it goes. LOL.

Post by **TheStanman** » Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:16 pm

LuckyHerbals wrote:I'm tapering off to 0 grams between tomorrow and the 7th. I'm too worried about an interaction with general anesthesia. Just surgery in general worries me! We will see how it goes. LOL.

For what it's worth, I've had no issues with general anesthesia. I took 2 grams ~4 hours before.

Post by **LuckyHerbals** » Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:08 pm

TheStanman wrote:
LuckyHerbals wrote:I'm tapering off to 0 grams between tomorrow and the 7th. I'm too worried about an interaction with general anesthesia. Just surgery in general worries me! We will see how it goes. LOL.
For what it's worth, I've had no issues with general anesthesia. I took 2 grams ~4 hours before.

Ok I'm dumb...is that the same as IV sedation? Haha

Post by **TheStanman** » Sat Oct 03, 2020 7:24 am

LuckyHerbals wrote:
TheStanman wrote:
LuckyHerbals wrote:I'm tapering off to 0 grams between tomorrow and the 7th. I'm too worried about an interaction with general anesthesia. Just surgery in general worries me! We will see how it goes. LOL.
For what it's worth, I've had no issues with general anesthesia. I took 2 grams ~4 hours before.
Ok I'm dumb...is that the same as IV sedation? Haha

Haha yep. Just where you're made totally unconscious, usually through IV

Post by **LuckyHerbals** » Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:40 am

Yep! I'm definitely getting that! LOL

Post by **TheStanman** » Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:33 pm

I have to say, coming out of the procedure and having a nice glass of kratom and a coffee feels pretty good!

Post by **KurtisCards** » Tue Oct 06, 2020 1:58 am

Totally forgot to check up on this lol I’m going in tomorrow (which will be the 6th) they quoted me the wrong price before so I’m getting the iv sedation. (Quoted me 1800 for sedation and 1200 for nova Caine now it’s like 700 and 400 for iv or numbing stuff.)

Planning on taking a small dose when I wake up, have to drive almost 3 hours to get to the office it’s being done at, so that will keep what ever minor wd's I have away.

I think I should be fine, I have taken kratom and Xanax before with no negative interactions.

Post by **TheStanman** » Tue Oct 06, 2020 6:53 am

KurtisCards wrote:Totally forgot to check up on this lol I’m going in tomorrow (which will be the 6th) they quoted me the wrong price before so I’m getting the iv sedation. (Quoted me 1800 for sedation and 1200 for nova Caine now it’s like 700 and 400 for iv or numbing stuff.)

Planning on taking a small dose when I wake up, have to drive almost 3 hours to get to the office it’s being done at, so that will keep what ever minor wd's I have away.

I think I should be fine, I have taken kratom and Xanax before with no negative interactions.

Yes seems like good timing. It will be a totally different drug than a benzo, but should still be fine. Not a big deal, but I'd recommend making a tea just to be safe.

3 hour drive! Man that's rough.

Post by **stax-xats** » Tue Oct 06, 2020 6:59 am

I dont know how much water you take with kratom and your dosage, but aspiration is the real risk - not interactions

Do they allow you to have water or clear liquids before the surgery?

You are not getting intubated, so that lowers the risk. But iaspiratiin is still a risk

Post by **KurtisCards** » Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:25 am

I assume I can drink fluids before hand, they said just not to eat anything 6 hours prior.

I’m only getting the bottom 2 out right now, so I shouldn’t be under for too long.

Post by **TheStanman** » Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:38 am

That's why I recommended tea, which meets the criteria of a clear liquid. Powder is technically food, and as noted, poses the aspiration risk.

Post by **KurtisCards** » Tue Oct 06, 2020 8:46 am

Should be digested by the time I get there anyway. Surgery is at 11.

Post by **KurtisCards** » Tue Oct 06, 2020 1:47 pm

Made it out alive guys! They just gassed me and gave me an iv and it was over in a second.

Should have not mentioned the coffee I had before so I could have been totally sedated, was essentially just in a k hole it seemed like.

Post by **mitragy9** » Tue Oct 06, 2020 4:02 pm

KurtisCards wrote:Made it out alive guys! They just gassed me and gave me an iv and it was over in a second.

Should have not mentioned the coffee I had before so I could have been totally sedated, was essentially just in a k hole it seemed like.

lol whatever they gave me was some strong ass shit I remember going "ah, that's it? I feel fine" then seconds later the room looked like it was 100 feet away. Then I woke up and it was done.

Post by **TheStanman** » Tue Oct 06, 2020 5:07 pm

He lives!

Post by **KurtisCards** » Tue Oct 06, 2020 6:14 pm

Anyone know if tramadol and kratom has any negative side Effects?

Post by **mitragy9** » Tue Oct 06, 2020 6:34 pm

KurtisCards wrote:Anyone know if tramadol and kratom has any negative side Effects?

I've heard of people combining them and I think it's relatively safe in normal dosages but I believe both would compete with each other on the opioid receptor. But tramadol lowers your seizure threshold especially with higher dosages 300mg+ and I have heard kratom can cause seizures in some people. Definitely something to keep in mind both have potential serotonin activity as well which may cause side effects. Honestly I would just take kratom the tramadol is so weak compared to kratom you'd have to take a ton and that can cause some really nasty side effects. Just make strong kratom tea for the potential pain. If they gave you oxycodone this would be a different story but I figured they'd never give you that lol. Cancer patients even have trouble getting it now because of the "opioid epidemic"

Post by **KurtisCards** » Tue Oct 06, 2020 6:44 pm

Yeah the options were tramadol or codeine 3 Tylenol tablets. I’m definitely not going to take high doses of the tramadol seen a buddy od on it before and it was scary af. Just made a tea, haven’t had any kratom since this morning so hopefully it helps out. Tired as hell, only got 3 or 4 hours of sleep last night.

Post by **mitragy9** » Tue Oct 06, 2020 6:54 pm

KurtisCards wrote:Yeah the options were tramadol or codeine 3 Tylenol tablets. I’m definitely not going to take high doses of the tramadol seen a buddy od on it before and it was scary af. Just made a tea, haven’t had any kratom since this morning so hopefully it helps out. Tired as hell, only got 3 or 4 hours of sleep last night.

I would maybe alternate them like one day take kratom then the next take tramadol to see which one is more effective for controlling your pain. I would try to wait at least 12-14 hours from the last dose of kratom before you take tramadol. I see differing reports on whether you can combine them or not. Some people say kratom completely blocks the tramadol others say they potentiated each other so idk.

Post by **IndelibleDotInk** » Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:13 pm

can't stress enough, take good care of your tooth holes so they fill up even with your gums. no dry sockets, no infections, now your mouth can make more room for a proper smile, lol.

Post by **KurtisCards** » Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:52 pm

Took some tram this morning after waiting 10 hours or so since last small kratom dose. Definitely feel it, but I’m so used to kratom that I think I prefer it more.

Only took 1 50mg pill this morning, debating whether or not to stack a small (2.5g) dose of some weak red on top of it.

Post by **mitragy9** » Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:37 pm

KurtisCards wrote:Took some tram this morning after waiting 10 hours or so since last small kratom dose. Definitely feel it, but I’m so used to kratom that I think I prefer it more.

Only took 1 50mg pill this morning, debating whether or not to stack a small (2.5g) dose of some weak red on top of it.

wow you can feel 50mg? I took 400mg a couple of months ago when I ran out of kratom I felt nothing at all didn't even really help with the minor detox symptoms.

Post by **KurtisCards** » Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:14 pm

Yeah I was just as surprised lol But the kratom definitely makes me feel better, kind of just feel bored on the tram. Gonna use it to cut down my daily intake of kratom though.

Yesterday I think I only had 10g of kratom, about the same today. And usually I’m a 16-18g a day guy. So that’s nice.

Post by **LuckyHerbals** » Thu Oct 08, 2020 7:15 am

Well, I tapered down, but not to zero g. LOL. Surgery in the next couple of hours. It'll be an overnight stay, so hopefully I don't WD from the kratom. I've stopped before with no major issues.

Post by **TheStanman** » Thu Oct 08, 2020 8:14 am

LuckyHerbals wrote:Well, I tapered down, but not to zero g. LOL. Surgery in the next couple of hours. It'll be an overnight stay, so hopefully I don't WD from the kratom. I've stopped before with no major issues.

Let us know how it goes. They'll probably be giving you pain meds after the surgery right? If so you should be good.

And good luck with the surgery!

Post by **LuckyHerbals** » Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:11 pm

Surgery went good! I'm in recovery now. I requested no fentanyl but didn't get it in writing so they gave it to me during the surgery and a little after. So far all the numbness in my hands and arms is gone and my grip is way stronger than it's been in a while. Really hoping this fixes alot of my problems. By the way, I had an artificial disc replacement at the cervical (neck) C5-C6. Recovery is about 2 weeks. A really good friend of mine will be working under my guidance on Monday getting ready to reopen on Tuesday.

Post by **mitragy9** » Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:41 pm

LuckyHerbals wrote:Surgery went good! I'm in recovery now. I requested no fentanyl but didn't get it in writing so they gave it to me during the surgery and a little after. So far all the numbness in my hands and arms is gone and my grip is way stronger than it's been in a while. Really hoping this fixes alot of my problems. By the way, I had an artificial disc replacement at the cervical (neck) C5-C6. Recovery is about 2 weeks. A really good friend of mine will be working under my guidance on Monday getting ready to reopen on Tuesday.

Good to hear I wish you well in your recovery and by the way your new batches of kratom are amazing. Props to getting my order out extremely quick even while dealing with stress of having surgery other vendors could learn a lot from how you operate.

Post by **MycatTimmy** » Fri Oct 09, 2020 9:32 am

Hope your recovery goes well. Be sure to watch your temperature closely for the next few days. Kratom can cause hot flashes so be sure you have a thermometer so you can double check that your not running a fever.

Post by **LuckyHerbals** » Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:28 am

Thanks guys! Yes I'm definitely watching my temperature...taking it several times a day. Need to make sure I'm not getting an infection. I'm now 40+ hours post-op and am doing great. My surgeon knows about kratom and my use, and sent me home with zero prescriptions. I'm able to take 3g 2x a day for my pain... which is much much less than what I was taking 2 days ago! Biggest issue I have is with swallowing and pain at the incision site. Oh....and I'm feeling my burns so much stronger now. Haha!!

Post by **LuckyHerbals** » Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:32 am

Thank you so much for the compliment! It's all about planning and keeping your word. That's something that is so valuable and in my opinion, very rare these days.