Recovery and "The Dangers of Kratom" video

[BallzDeep9]

I'm posting this YouTube Video LINK for discussion:

Like anything... Use Kratom in Moderation... Not to "excess". Recent example: Video on YouTube: "The Dangers of Kratom"... Dude coming off 20 years of Meth and heroin, Out of prison. Jumps on Kratom, starts abusing the hell out of iit... then starts beating his wife? Now guess what ?? Yep blaming all his problems on kratom. Of course! For him... Dude. Don't do kratom!! It's NOT for everyone? Some people can't handle alcohol? Same with kratom! Obsessive compulsive drug seekers, probably should not do kratom ?? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TREJOY8UV0U&t=1169s

Turns out, this guy is (another) Member of r/Quitting sub on Reddit. Big surprise! These are people who demonize kratom, advocate to BAN kratom, go around preaching against kratom... Including some Recovery folks. Some who are involved in the Recovery community, feel this way... Unfortunately. ALL because, kratom has not yet been defined by FDA, as a Supplement (with a Supplement Facts Label and recommended Serving.) So... they advocate Kratom = Drug. Which means... Ban Kratom.

Note and Disclaimer: That Example video, may or may NOT be relavant to anyone else here. It does relate to the popular Subject of Tolerance, which directly relates to over indulging in kratom. I write this for everyone, and nobody in particular. It's useful information for anyone. I'm not "shaming" anyone here. IF you feel ashamed, that was not my intent. Please Reply, Join the discussion, or just move on! Thank You.

[herbalhippie]

Confession. I have been known to have an addictive personality. I find it pretty easy to not get ridiculous with my kratom use. Maybe because my one experience with pretty severe withdrawals (oxycodone) put the fear of god in me. It just seems like an easy substance to keep under control as far as use goes. And I've tried quite a few substances in my life. Some of them for longer than was a good idea.

[BallzDeep9]

I find it pretty easy to not get ridiculous with my kratom use...

yeah, obviously kratom does feel good, A nice high especially when you're new... It's understandable IF people over indulge. For some reason I've lost my taste for booze? But years ago it was very easy to hang around bars with friends, and get a buzz on... Oxy and Vicodin came out in the 90's and were lots of fun!!

Seeing more & more of these Anti Kratom videos on YouTube, . also the Quitting folks all over Reddit.. and locally when I talk to Recovery folks. It's Sad, because imo kratom helps WAY, way, more people than a few who develop problems... In 2021, we'll (again) be facing a challenge over the Legal Status. Sure would be nice, to just keep it a grey market product just like now. Most of us don't need government "Regulation" and, hopefully, under Biden/ Democrats will appoint someone at FDA, who will accept a kratom NDI (New Dietary Ingredient) application.

[ybanurse247]

Confession. I have been known to have an addictive personality. I find it pretty easy to not get ridiculous with my kratom use. Maybe because my one experience with pretty severe withdrawals (oxycodone) put the fear of god in me. It just seems like an easy substance to keep under control as far as use goes. And I've tried quite a few substances in my life. Some of them for longer than was a good idea.

Thanks for the confession.....I have one too! I use Kratom mainly for moods (bi-polar depression NOT managed by big pharma) and energy as well as staying clean. I too had a year of hell abusing opiates including oxycodone, hydrocodone, hell all of the codiene family, Ambien, some xanax as well. I def understand the sheer horror of THAT withdraw process as I was in in-patient rehab and suffered through it. Eventually went on Suboxone then Methadone for nearly 5 years then quit CT which didn't quite suck as bad as the first one. Enter Kratom. Life changing in the most positive way I could ever imagine a plant/leaf to be. Those that say otherwise I just can't compete with nor do I want to. Everyone has their DOC and everyone can make an argument for abuse of said DOC. It's not my place to tell you it's wrong or right. I know Kratom works for me regardless of how much I do or don't take on a daily basis. I feel educated enough to make decisions about my use and I'm comfortable with that. Period. I won't tolerate anyone shaming me for GPD useage or any other reason just like I wouldn't do that to someone else. Sucks that just because someone on Reddit shares their horrible experience w/ Kratom automatically means there should be a campaign against it is outrageous. Thanks for the post Ballz....I enjoy reading these threads.

[mivanqua]

Yeah! Addiction is hysterical! That's what these fuckers think. He went to meet his kratom "dealer?" Could the duper's delight be any more obvious? Could you imagine a person getting on this piece of shit show and talking about alcohol and beating their wife under the influence of it and yucking it up like these shitheads are? They are lying. 100% sure.

[Slapjack]

I’ve been using kratom daily going on seven years..
Still get same effects from it, same dosage.. before was addicted to pain meds. I live a great life... I have never beat my wife!

[mitragy9]

I find kratom rather easy to control even with my addictive personality. Even when I got up to a pretty high dosage daily (around 40grams per day) the withdrawal while shitty(all opi withdrawal is shitty) wasn't anything horrible and was a night and day difference between dope/opana. Withdrawing off H and opana I seriously wanted to die I couldn't even get out of bed or stop writhing in pain, or vomiting, dying seriously seemed like the better option. Kratom it's some shitty sleep and cold sweats/hot flashes. Kratom was also extremely easy to taper and my tolerance disappeared extremely quick to a more moderate to normal amount. That's nearly impossible to do with pretty much every other opioid you have absolutely no self control with h or oxy deep into use. You'd pretty much have to have a personal doctor to taper you off those potent full agonists. But as with anything people will fuck their lives up with using kratom. Addiction is a disease of the mind and there will always be someone much worse off than yourself. The shitty thing is, is a lot of these "recovery" groups love to remove all responsibility to someones actions who seriously fucked their life up. I get why they do it (initially) but imo it's a bad way of thinking about this issue long term. It leads towards a constant victim mentality and blaming of a substance for "ruining your life" instead of your own decisions. While active addiction is a sickness you still made that choice to use an addictive substance at the end of the day. It's somewhere in the middle imo.

[ybanurse247]

But as with anything people will fuck their lives up with using kratom. Addiction is a disease of the mind and there will always be someone much worse off than yourself. The shitty thing is, is a lot of these "recovery" groups love to remove all responsibility to someones actions who seriously fucked their life up. I get why they do it (initially) but imo it's a bad way of thinking about this issue long term. It leads towards a constant victim mentality and blaming of a substance for "ruining your life" instead of your own decisions. While active addiction is a sickness you still made that choice to use an addictive substance at the end of the day. It's somewhere in the middle imo.[/quote]



You know....I couldn't have said this any better myself so thank you. I think unless you have been or are currently an addict and have gone through withdrawl from big pharma then it's hard to say what is hard to come down from and what is not. I agree that Kratom has been a real walk in the park for me if I wanted to stop it (which I have no intention/reason for) and I also have a very addictive personality (go big or go home). I think it's easy for many people living on the outside of addiction to say that Kratom is a drug with addictive qualities because they continue to be uneduated. Education is the biggest factor to keeping the DEA away from Kratom and it's supporters imo. Again I'm new on the block and don't claim to "know it all" but I do know the difference between hot/cold flashes, drenched in sweat, throwing up and having diarrhea at the same damn time, bones aching, and just wanting to die withdrawls from opiates and maybe a slight runny nose and some RLS from Kratom. I'll take the Kratom any day of the week LOL. I also don't believe that NA/AA is the ONLY way to do recovery either. I think recovery is a very individual thing and you have to find what works for you if you want the help to begin with. There were times such as quitting methadone that I was strong enough and fed up enough on my own to quit CT without help from anyone/anything. I 100% agree with your statement that addiction is a disease of the mind and with the right coping skills and tools you can overcome anything. I will however never claim to be "free" from addiction because it's just in my DNA and there will always be "temptation" there. It's how you keep it in check that matters most. Thanks everyone for a really good thread

[gepetto33]

Confession. I have been known to have an addictive personality. I find it pretty easy to not get ridiculous with my kratom use. Maybe because my one experience with pretty severe withdrawals (oxycodone) put the fear of god in me. It just seems like an easy substance to keep under control as far as use goes. And I've tried quite a few substances in my life. Some of them for longer than was a good idea.

i feel exactly this way. And also agree with Ballz - sure there's some people that just shouln't take it, but for how compulsive i've been about things in the past i have had zero issues with kratom abuse. Neither has anyone i know who takes it. The real secret is.... once it stops effecting you - stop taking it. Logical people comprehend this, history of addiction or not.... and foolish (or terminally bored) people do not. I don't count people with severe pain in the same category as the foolish. If you have a reason to take this all day, in order to function amidst the pain, then you accept and live with the dependence. To consider comparable relief with prescription opiates it isn't even close.... if you pursue that path you will lose, every time. With Kratom at least you have so many ways to step down and trek you way back to normal dosing.

I'll readily admit that i get a "coffee headache" during the first day of my 48h off a week, of which i treat by going to bed at 9:30. I wake up fine the next day, and don't really feel any discomfort to speak of. This is a pretty new development - it took me 3 years and a 2g-4g increase in daily dosing to even feel any dependent side effects. So the fact is you really have to try to become addicted to kratom. People really want to believe it to be 100% innocuous, like CBD, which it's not. But with a tiny bit of respect and self-discipline it's so goddamn easy to use responsibly. I argue this point every chance i get, when faced with this ignorant & demonizing/polarizing rhetoric. Really if you let yourself you can abuse anything. Even food. "Super Size Me" was a good example. So why blame McDonalds for your own shitty eating habits?