Anything consistently better than Kat's?

[Kelleytoons]

Folks,

First, new to the forum so forgive me if I am violating any rules (I did read the rules) and/or covering ground already covered (a bit daunting to read all the topics here but I'll start some each day and see).

I've been using Kratom for over six months with great success, and have tried three or four vendors but settled on Kat's. On the AKA forum it was suggested that small vendors might have better product than the larger vendors and while I'm skeptical I'm always up for a try. The reason I'm skeptical is that with ALL the vendors I've ever seen or read about the reviews are all over the board about this and that strain. Some folks swear by it, others swear at it, but it just makes me think that no vendor really is THAT much better than any other good one (I'm not saying there aren't bad ones out there - just that it seems that nearly all the goods one have about the same quality product).

Like with Kats - I have about 30 of their strains and while some are so-so there are two or three that are AMAZING. And, yet... sometimes those do nothing for me, when one strain I haven't tried for a few weeks suddenly is my new favorite. So my gut tells me that personal variation is FAR more significant than who you actually get your leaf from.

But I'm open to try something to get me to change my mind. I just ordered from Mitraman on the advice of someone who is a member here, but while I wait for it to arrive I'll consider others. [Redacted]

Payment methods cannot be discussed on the forum, thank you!

[KratomBurner]

I am a member of a small vendor mentioned here. However, I used to use Kats. I had some of their green maeng da laying around and dosed it and to my surprise it was an amazing feeling. so maybe the strain stagnant syndrome is real. Today I dosed some and it didn't hit as hard so I'm thinking I needed to switch it up. However, I still think kats comes out with amazing stuff.

Try

Oties
Lucky Herbals (membership only)
Mitraman
TFH (membership only)

I would stay with the white elephant and green maeng da from kats ( personally a favorite). Hope more chime in. This site is very slow for response. I don't understand why as there are no other kratom forums like this .

[NiqueKristan]

All non-bulk vendors are better than Kats. Okie, YLYL, and Mitraman are all non-membership vendors that are great. If you can eventually get into the trading post, grab some tfh, denette, lone star, and rhino

[Melificent311]

I also use primarily kats along with mitra gaia. I
think I've stuck with kats because of their fb community making a place to hang out and read of others experiences and questions. Their white elephant is my favorite, like mentioned above. Mitra gaia was the first vendor I tried. I took a chance and ordered a bag of red horn and to my utter Shock my pain was gone.. it may have truly saved my life... so I definitely have a soft spot and allegiance to Mitra Gaia.. I read about small batch vendors on AKA, like you, and was probably referred here by the same person as you. Bless his little heart, I had no idea this all existed! I am pretty pumped to find some new, more rare and exclusive product to help my pain. I'm afraid of tolerance after 2.5 years of use. I've already met several awesome people in this forum and really am looking forward to filling my mailbox with tea and candles! I'd love to someday get in on the trading post action but I've only been here four days.
Alright y'all!!! Have a good one!!!

[Kelleytoons]

Melificent, you've been here longer than me (I tried registering last year but things didn't work out somehow and perhaps that same person that referred you here helped me as well with the admins here). I am told there is some kind of yearly event where Double M allows non-members to join up so perhaps that will allow me to be a customer of theirs so perhaps you and I can get on at that time. And thanks for the headsup about the FB community of Kats - I'll have to head over there and join up as well.

I'll try getting to be a member of Lucky Herbals and in the meantime try getting on to Okie/Oties (unless those are two different vendors and not a typo by one of the folks above). At this point I most likely have all the Kratom I need for three or four years, but that doesn't mean I won't continue to try new vendors because I wouldn't mind finding even more strains I can vary.

I also started just a week or two ago journaling my experiences with each strain I'm taking, in an effort to be a little more scientific about things. As I said, I have 30 strains but there are 24 that I vary every day so I don't take the same one for at least two weeks (they are all in little bottles of around 100+ capsules and I shift them within two plastic trays every time I take a strain). I can and will add more to this rotation (like when the Mitraman stuff arrives). At my age I have way more money than I have time left in life, so it really doesn't bother me to spend more to keep feeling better (without Kratom I can barely walk - with it I can play tennis four times a week and beat most of the folks I play against).

Anyway, thanks for all the responses and keep them coming, folks. I'm not sure anyone can have TOO much leaf (and besides I share it with other folks my age to help them out).

[KratomBurner]

If you happened to need to dispose of any kratom, I got a birthday once a year. I'm just saying lol ok it's not that funny

Seriously though, that's great you got that much stored up. Your all ready for the zombie apocalypse

[Kelleytoons]

If you lived near me I'd certainly provide some for you - I've given tons away to friends and neighbors to help.

I have a lot of it in my freezer but I still am always looking for new strains/vendors. But let's face it - even a two-three month supply is pretty cheap, as I just bought that much from Mitraman for less than $90. That's a ton less than I spend on medications that don't make me feel nearly as good <g>.

[NiqueKristan]

If you lived near me I'd certainly provide some for you - I've given tons away to friends and neighbors to help.

I have a lot of it in my freezer but I still am always looking for new strains/vendors. But let's face it - even a two-three month supply is pretty cheap, as I just bought that much from Mitraman for less than $90. That's a ton less than I spend on medications that don't make me feel nearly as good <g>.

I wouldn’t store them in your freezer. The moisture and condensation can create bacteria.

[Kelleytoons]

They are double vacuumed sealed so no worries about moisture or bacteria.

[BunnyBoo2011]

Kats is one of the most over-rated vendors. I moved away from them and all the other Facebook vendors once I found this forum. Some of my orders on repeat are TFH, Smiley Time, Botanical Bunny.

[BallzDeep9]

... And thanks for the headsup about the FB community of Kats - I'll have to head over there and join up as well. // I'll try getting to be a member of Lucky Herbals and in the meantime try getting on to Okie/ Oties (unless those are two different vendors...)

I'd suggest, don't bother with Kats - He's clearly changed from, 3+ years ago, Direct imports - To a paid AKA seller. Whatever, CBD, Shilajit, whatever he can buy cheap and sell for $ - Assume he now stocks the average, Bulk, Distro type kratom as all the AKA vendors do...

SVS. Stale Vendor Syndrome. I'm a customer of Kats like 4+ years ago.. before he even had a website. Shipped in ziploc bags marked w/ sharpie. The kratom was obviously Direct Import from known quality suppliers in Indonesia ... what changed ?? Well he ran completely OUT of stock around 2020 .. the Industry had a Shipping problem .. Yes he "was" the #1 vendor on FB, but then... His FB group got banned! Way too public for FB - He also complained on his Group, about getting repeatedly ripped-off by Fake customers, Charge-backs, losing his Bank account, on and on...

TWO good vendors on Facebook: Herbal RVA, and Okie... that's Okie in Oklahoma. Been in business for 5+ years, and actually made a "Pledge to Customers" on FB - that he will ONLY stock Small Batch, Direct Import kratom from his good Indo sources - of which he has many. Experience counts in this business!

I gotta agree w/ BunnyBoo here - Kats way over-rated now. Avoid ALL the big AKA profiteers - and Mitra Gaia should be on any "Worst Vendors" List lol

[brave777]

We need to support small batch vendors if we want kratom to not be trash.

[elbandito88]

Not a big fan of Kats, but I just disagree in saying that all AKA vendors are trash. As someone who has taken “small batch” leaf for 7+years, I’ve gotten just as good leaf, if not better, from an AKA vendor. Multiple ones.

A good batch is a good batch.

[NiqueKristan]

We need to support small batch vendors if we want kratom to not be trash.

100%

[NiqueKristan]

Not a big fan of Kats, but I just disagree in saying that all AKA vendors are trash. As someone who has taken “small batch” leaf for 7+years, I’ve gotten just as good leaf, if not better, from an AKA vendor. Multiple ones.

A good batch is a good batch.

Which vendors? I haven’t tried all of the AKA vendors by far, but that ones I have tried didn’t stand out to me. They weren’t bad at all, just average.

[elbandito88]

Not a big fan of Kats, but I just disagree in saying that all AKA vendors are trash. As someone who has taken “small batch” leaf for 7+years, I’ve gotten just as good leaf, if not better, from an AKA vendor. Multiple ones.

A good batch is a good batch.

Which vendors? I haven’t tried all of the AKA vendors by far, but that ones I have tried didn’t stand out to me. They weren’t bad at all, just average.

Experience (based in Houston, one of my favorite
Vendors), Soap Korner, 1836, Laughing Lion Herbs, to name a few. Heck, I even enjoy Whole Herbs, and they’ve been around probably longer than anyone (along with Remarkable Herbs, as they’re the same parent company).

All have been exceptional quality in my experience. All I see anymore are people saying “small batch”, when they don’t even really understand what that means (I don’t mean anyone in this thread, I’m mainly referring to Reddit…) Or that the “color” of the leaf is the deciding factor of quality. Simply isn’t true.

Don’t get me wrong, I love some MeWe leaf, especially Denette, but there are other good vendors out there as well.

Lab testing and cGMP is a good thing, IMO. And I agree with you Dominique, that some vendors on that list haven’t been good, just like some “small batch” MeWe leaf hasn’t been great either.

A good batch is just a good batch I’m just glad we all can enjoy this unique leaf.

[BallzDeep9]

... Soap Korner, 1836, Laughing Lion Herbs, to name a few. Heck, I even enjoy Whole Herbs, and they’ve been around probably longer than anyone (along with Remarkable Herbs, as they’re the same parent company). -- All have been exceptional quality in my experience. All I see anymore are people saying “small batch”, when they don’t even really understand what that means (I don’t mean anyone in this thread, namely Reddit…) Or that the “color” of the leaf is the deciding factor of quality. Simply isn’t true.

So how can a Consumer, tell what's most likely better quality ? Without actually buying all 5000 batches sold by USA vendors, every Year ? (Vendors always say "Try" my kratom, which really means "Buy" lol) ... Well, Color and Batch >> "Strains and Veins". That's absolutely true, because strains are fake, and leaf separated by vein = False.

Quality and Price are 2 main points - not like AKA folks have terrible leaf - imo it's more an overall lowering of the Average, based on changes we know for a Fact, happened since 2018 -19. American profiteers, did beat down their cost to Indonesians, who responded to $5 Kilo prices, by exporting lower Quality... Sad but True.

Smart consumers, should attempt to Judge a vendor: What kind of business ? ANA, MMan, Okie, RVA, Lucky, Rhino, Treasure House, communicate to customers: What, Where, When, even Who! (without actually naming supplier.) All operate some kind of Group, or Forum, or Blog - with current News about their re-stocks.

Dumb consumers, buy from AKA vendors, Retail head-shops (Soap Korner) and or Retail "brands" 1836, or long-time sketchy operators (LL, Gaia, etc) with little or NO transparency, NO customer Forum .. & history of shitty business practice - Price gouging, Dirty kratom, Spamming, False advertising... it's easy to check, who NOT to buy from ? Just Google kratom! All of those who engage in SEO Marketing - are fraudsters, and of course... AKA "members". Kats!

For a good laugh - Check this out. A tiny small town in Washington State is Sequim. pronounced "Sqwim" lol so, they've got a Newspaper. It's online now. It's taking Paid Advertising from Internet spammers - like many small papers trying to survive - Oh Look! the Sequim Gazette ran a Article yesterday "Best Kratom Vendors Online" wow! And... Guess WHO they're pushing - Kats Botanicals! https://www.sequimgazette.com/national- ... suppliers/

ALL of the bullshit AKA "members" who SPAM the Internet - sell the SAME crap. Wholesale, Bulk, average leaf at high prices!

[elbandito88]

... Soap Korner, 1836, Laughing Lion Herbs, to name a few. Heck, I even enjoy Whole Herbs, and they’ve been around probably longer than anyone (along with Remarkable Herbs, as they’re the same parent company). -- All have been exceptional quality in my experience. All I see anymore are people saying “small batch”, when they don’t even really understand what that means (I don’t mean anyone in this thread, namely Reddit…) Or that the “color” of the leaf is the deciding factor of quality. Simply isn’t true.

So how can a Consumer, tell what's most likely better quality ? Without actually buying all 5000 batches sold by USA vendors, every Year ? (Vendors always say "Try" my kratom, which really means "Buy" lol) ... Well, Color and Batch >> "Strains and Veins". That's absolutely true, because strains are fake, and leaf separated by vein = False.

Quality and Price are 2 main points - not like AKA folks have terrible leaf - imo it's more an overall lowering of the Average, based on changes we know for a Fact, happened since 2018 -19. American profiteers, did beat down their cost to Indonesians, who responded to $5 Kilo prices, by exporting lower Quality... Sad but True.

Smart consumers, should attempt to Judge a vendor: What kind of business ? ANA, MMan, Okie, RVA, Lucky, Rhino, Treasure House, communicate to customers: What, Where, When, even Who! (without actually naming supplier.) All operate some kind of Group, or Forum, or Blog - with current News about their re-stocks.

Dumb consumers, buy from AKA vendors, Retail head-shops (Soap Korner) and or Retail "brands" 1836, or long-time sketchy operators (LL, Gaia, etc) with little or NO transparency, NO customer Forum .. & history of shitty business practice - Price gouging, Dirty kratom, Spamming, False advertising... it's easy to check, who NOT to buy from ? Just Google kratom! All of those who engage in SEO Marketing - are fraudsters, and of course... AKA "members". Kats!

For a good laugh - Check this out. A tiny small town in Washington State is Sequim. pronounced "Sqwim" lol so, they've got a Newspaper. It's online now. It's taking Paid Advertising from Internet spammers - like many small papers trying to survive - Oh Look! the Sequim Gazette ran a Article yesterday "Best Kratom Vendors Online" wow! And... Guess WHO they're pushing - Kats Botanicals! https://www.sequimgazette.com/national- ... suppliers/

ALL of the bullshit AKA "members" who SPAM the Internet - sell the SAME crap. Wholesale, Bulk, average leaf at high prices!

That’s why I said a good batch is a good batch. I’ve taken plenty of Kratom to know that there are some AKA vendors who have good batches, just like MeWe vendors. It’s not black and white.

The truth is, Kratom is probably eventually going to be regulated. cGMP is not a bad thing. A lot of “small batch vendor” batches I’ve had are weak, and a lot of, what you would call, “bulk” vendor batches I’ve had, are great. It’s pretty simple.

Kratom is, for the most part, pretty similar. Beyond the marketing, it’s just batches. Different drying methods. All the strain stuff is marketing, like you said.

I think calling anyone “dumb” for buying specific leaf is silly. Soap Korner isn’t expensive. It’s like $70 for a split kilo right now.
Having lab tests is pretty transparent to me. You’re saying that word of mouth is being transparent? How do we know that we haven’t consumed contaminated leaf from small batch vendors? We don’t.

There’s nothing sketchy about Laughing Lion. Not sure where you would get that idea. Never had a bad experience with them before. Gaia is another story, and I wouldn’t touch their leaf with a ten foot pole.

It’s just not as simple as “AKA vendors sucks, small batch rulez”. It can and does go both ways. If all of these “AKA” vendors sell the same leaf, pretty sure it would have no effect on me. Hell, I’m sure there are MeWe vendors that have the same suppliers. In fact, I know their are. And some of that leaf is average too. Some batches are good, some aren’t.

You know me Ballz, I’ve been around a long time. You would say I’ve had a decent amount of experience with this leaf, yes? Just my opinion and experience. And for the record, I’m not a fan of Kats.

That article is pretty silly hah. But overall, I get what you’re trying to say, I just think this whole argument on who or what is better is subjective.

Anyways, it’s time for bed. This is what I get for taking some bomb
TFH green too late in the evening. Have a good night man.

[brave777]

In all honestly, i would still stick with small batch vendors. Even thought i see nothing wrong buying from big vendors, as long as you sit around and do your research and hope more then 3 people will post something positive about specific batch. Or else you sample everything yourself and share your finding with others. Kratom is kratom, but seeking out vendors that take a notch up, like pictures, videos, dry methods, history where kratom was collected and the people involved, i mean this kind of vendors will always be priority for me OVER some big vendor who has over 1,000 batches and who knows what it is even if its cgmp compliant. You can only test a small bit, out of 1,000 you test 1 and now its on AKA list promoted? There is still high chances from all the other batches have contamination. But these days even small vendors test kratom, plus with small vendors you will have all the attention you need, once it gets big, that will be lost and you wont get attention as much, this is why legit small vendors will hire workers and train them how to talk to customers once they get big. Customer care is a serious business these days. If you have all your questions answered on time when you want it, it will make you want to be a permanent customer. Deep down i am sure all vendors want to make a sell but to many people trust has to be earned.

This is the reason many eat less but more healthy. End result if want to feel good long term you wont go for just any food, you will cherry pick. Thats why i feel cherry picking small vendors who openly communicate and even participate on the forums earn higher respect over big vendors who consider you just a #. Its shows that they actually care about their own sells as much as for the customer. TFH going as far as to vacuum seal it for long storage. I still have them nicely sealed and i feel good about it, when i pop open, feels refreshing knowing not one bug would survive in perfectly sealed bag. Or fusedflora, 100 grams bags to make up a kilo, not everyone willing to take it a step higher, but some due and its well noted.

[elbandito88]

In all honestly, i would still stick with small batch vendors. Even thought i see nothing wrong buying from big vendors, as long as you sit around and do your research and hope more then 3 people will post something positive about specific batch. Or else you sample everything yourself and share your finding with others. Kratom is kratom, but seeking out vendors that take a notch up, like pictures, videos, dry methods, history where kratom was collected and the people involved, i mean this kind of vendors will always be priority for me OVER some big vendor who has over 1,000 batches and who knows what it is even if its cgmp compliant. You can only test a small bit, out of 1,000 you test 1 and now its on AKA list promoted? There is still high chances from all the other batches have contamination. But these days even small vendors test kratom, plus with small vendors you will have all the attention you need, once it gets big, that will be lost and you wont get attention as much, this is why legit small vendors will hire workers and train them how to talk to customers once they get big. Customer care is a serious business these days. If you have all your questions answered on time when you want it, it will make you want to be a permanent customer. Deep down i am sure all vendors want to make a sell but to many people trust has to be earned.

This is the reason many eat less but more healthy. End result if want to feel good long term you wont go for just any food, you will cherry pick. Thats why i feel cherry picking small vendors who openly communicate and even participate on the forums earn higher respect over big vendors who consider you just a #. Its shows that they actually care about their own sells as much as for the customer. TFH going as far as to vacuum seal it for long storage. I still have them nicely sealed and i feel good about it, when i pop open, feels refreshing knowing not one bug would survive in perfectly sealed bag. Or fusedflora, 100 grams bags to make up a kilo, not everyone willing to take it a step higher, but some due and its well noted.

Experience, a brand I use out of Houston, tests much more than just a small sample size. They do the required supplement industry testing. Which is the square root plus one. So if there is a hundred boxes of Kratom powder they will test out 34 random ones throughout the lot and then homogenize that test to get a true representation of what they have in that lot.

Obviously most vendors can’t do this as it’s expensive, which is understandable. I get what you’re saying, and I think in the long run that’s the way to go for the most part, but I would have missed out on some fantastic leaf had I only stuck to “small batch” vendors.

Also, still think Kratom will eventually be regulated, so why wouldn’t we want cGMP practices? It’s not just about testing, but about sanitation and cleanliness in handling the leaf. I think that’s important for something I’m consuming on a daily basis.

But overall, I do agree with you brave.

[BookofEnoch1914]

I noticed one of the Bullet Points in the Sequim Gazette article reads "The kratom leaves undergo rigorous testing in a laboratory before being responsibly collected". If we are to take that literally, Kats has their Supplier bring Lab Equipment To The Actual Tree Itself and Tests The Leaves multiple times WHILE THEY ARE STILL ON THE TREE then "Collects"(Harvests) them....If the rigorous testing is done PRIOR to "responsible" collection, The leaves would have to still be on the trees....

[elbandito88]

I noticed one of the Bullet Points in the Sequim Gazette article reads "The kratom leaves undergo rigorous testing in a laboratory before being responsibly collected". If we are to take that literally, Kats has their Supplier bring Lab Equipment To The Actual Tree Itself and Tests The Leaves multiple times WHILE THEY ARE STILL ON THE TREE then "Collects"(Harvests) them....If the rigorous testing is done PRIOR to "responsible" collection, The leaves would have to still be on the trees....

Haha, I saw that too! Lmao

[BookofEnoch1914]

I noticed one of the Bullet Points in the Sequim Gazette article reads "The kratom leaves undergo rigorous testing in a laboratory before being responsibly collected". If we are to take that literally, Kats has their Supplier bring Lab Equipment To The Actual Tree Itself and Tests The Leaves multiple times WHILE THEY ARE STILL ON THE TREE then "Collects"(Harvests) them....If the rigorous testing is done PRIOR to "responsible" collection, The leaves would have to still be on the trees....

Haha, I saw that too! Lmao

Haha!!!!!

[Kelleytoons]

Okay, folks, I am still trying to learn but if you read this entire thread you'll see a number of conflicting opinions:

1) Kat's is horrible/Kats is fine
2) Mitraman is the best/Mitraman is terrible
3) This vendor is great (you can't buy from them, but they are great).

So I'm STILL looking for recommendations as to whom to buy from. At this point I have tried Mitraman (at the recommendation of at least three folks here, one privately) and right now I just tried Okie. I'm still willing to try almost anyone assuming I don't have to do (things like sending them my first born - for a supposedly "uncensored" web site there are some things you can't discuss AND you have to have your post pre-approved. Sigh. I wish there was just ONE uncensored place to discuss Kratom but in some ways this reminds me of the 60's when we could only talk about pot with our very closest friends).

Also - if you do have a small vendor you like, any recommendation on strain would help. I try, with any new vendor, to get their most popular ones on the theory they should be the best but sometimes I then am told "oh, you should NOT have ordered THAT." Sigh.

[Sanbutsushin]

Okay, folks, I am still trying to learn but if you read this entire thread you'll see a number of conflicting opinions:

1) Kat's is horrible/Kats is fine
2) Mitraman is the best/Mitraman is terrible
3) This vendor is great (you can't buy from them, but they are great).

So I'm STILL looking for recommendations as to whom to buy from. At this point I have tried Mitraman (at the recommendation of at least three folks here, one privately) and right now I just tried Okie. I'm still willing to try almost anyone assuming I don't have to do (things like sending them my first born - for a supposedly "uncensored" web site there are some things you can't discuss AND you have to have your post pre-approved. Sigh. I wish there was just ONE uncensored place to discuss Kratom but in some ways this reminds me of the 60's when we could only talk about pot with our very closest friends).

Also - if you do have a small vendor you like, any recommendation on strain would help. I try, with any new vendor, to get their most popular ones on the theory they should be the best but sometimes I then am told "oh, you should NOT have ordered THAT." Sigh.

You can't discuss payment methods for the safety of the vendors themselves, as they have been targeted by people who are anti-kratom multiple times in the past; this has led to several vendors not being able to accept those payment methods anymore, which is a problem for obvious reasons. As for having posts pre-approved, unless that's something that was implemented for new members recently - in which case it would likely have been done to cut down on potential spam - then the only thing I can think of is... the Trading Post requiring ten posts for membership. And that's done to try to discourage scammers from showing up, going straight there, and potentially ripping people off. It's not an issue of censorship in any case. The rules don't exist for no reason.

In the past year I've been on DoubleM, I don't think I've seen anyone say "you shouldn't have ordered [batch]", but I haven't been as active recently so idk. But it seems very silly if that's happened. A batch not working for one person doesn't mean it won't be great for someone else. I get someone saying "none of this vendor's stuff was hitting for me", but not "most of their stuff is good, but this one batch absolutely sucks" - the small batch vendors you see talked about here are people who've turned batches away when the potency wasn't up to snuff, or offered them discounted.

As for recommended vendors to try, there's a stickied list of affordable, small-batch vendors with consistently good quality here. Some I've tried and loved are Mitraman, Botanical Bunny, Lucky Herbals, and Otie's. LH periodically opens up for new membership but the other three are open to the public and generally have good stuff, doesn't matter what batch you go with, just pick what sounds interesting to you or ask the vendor for their own recommendation based on what you're looking for (but be careful not to ask them what would treat a medical condition, because that can also land a vendor in hot water as they're not licensed medical professionals).

[Kelleytoons]

Thanks for the reply.

I've gotten four strains from Mitraman and I'll try them this week (even though elsewhere on this thread someone denounced them). I also ordered from Oties but... let's just say I haven't heard back from them yet despite emails and FB posts (perhaps they took Friday-Sunday off - I tried ordering Thursday). The Botanical Bunny doesn't seem to sell in large enough quantities for me (I want at least 250 grams in a single strain, and I guess I'd have to order 10 of their 5gram bags, which seems both wasteful and very $$$). And I hope that someday LH will allow others to join.

And thanks for the link to the vendors - I'll definitely visit at least a few and keep searching. As I said, I like what I've gotten from Kat's but I'm always willing to try a new vendor, if nothing more than to perhaps avoid building up a dependency (if that's even a thing - I see on my other posts that even THAT was questioned. Sigh).

[Bandit357]

Mitra Man and Oties are for sure some of the best stuff youll find
and for Oties not responding Im sure they are taking the weeked off or just short staff for the moment

[Kelleytoons]

Just to be clear (because I kind of hate spreading bad info) the vendor I hadn't heard from yet was Okies. However, I also ordered from Oties (very, very confusing to have two small vendors both recommended here). Oties says they are preparing my order, but Okies hasn't responded to me (I'm not particularly worried, though - as I've said elsewhere, I have PLENTY of Kratom).

I just tried one of my Mitraman's strains last night and it was very good, so I'm hoping the other three I got are of equal quality. If so, I'll probably order some other of their strains.

[Polaris]

I may get flamed for this but here goes...

I usually only stick with small batch vendors:

Lucky
MitraMan
Okie's
Olie's
Smiley Time Herbals
Liza's Botanica's

But recently I've tried New Dawn Kratom- definitely a bulk vendor. I've tried 5 different strains and each has hit. Some like the Red Hulu hit pretty hard. The pricing is cheap too. Just goes to show you that there are occasional exceptions to the rule. Just sayin...

[Kelleytoons]

I, too, worry about being flamed but in my (admittedly early) tests with three smaller vendors (Mitraman, Okies and Oties) "against" Kat's Botanicals I have found little if no difference.

IOW, if I take the 12 or 13 different strains from those three small vendors and compare them to another 12 or 13 randomly chosen strains from Kat's I honestly can't say they are any better. One or two *might* be better than one or two of the Kat's, but some of the Kat's are definitely better than some of the smaller vendor's strains that I've tried.

After this experiment (still ongoing) I'm feeling like it's far more a matter of personal and situation use that makes any difference. If there were, truly, a major "upgrade" by using a small vendor I certainly haven't seen it.

There are just WAY too many variables going on here - and, if anything, this experiment of mine is stacked against Kat's, since I truly did expect those smaller recommended vendors to be better. But... I'm okay with it. So far I just feel like almost any vendor I try has some good stuff, and some not-so-good stuff. I'm really glad folks recommended the vendors here, because I like trying new things and it can't hurt in my rotation to have different vendors. But it certainly hasn't revolutionized my use of Kratom in any way whatsoever.

(Now I'm off to look at New Dawn. I'm such a Kratom whore :>).