Wife having issues with Kratom

[Kelleytoons]

So in my never ending quest to help my DW overcome her pain and, in particular (since the last year) trying to get some Kratom to help, I'm having a very hard time.

This morning I tried a really nice Denette green bone for her, and I laid out only three capsules. I told her to take two - but an additional one after an hour if she felt nothing. Capsules are uniformly around .5 gram (minus the capsule weight - IOW, .5 gram of powder - I make VERY uniform capsules). In the past I've had her try 3 grams of inferior Kratom and she never felt a thing (and I've also had her try more, like 5-6 grams and she threw it up).

When I came home from tennis she said after 90 minutes she got violently ill and was ill for the next two hours. She had taken all three, not paying much attention to what I told her (but - my bad. If three made her that sick I'm fairly sure two would have done the same). But (here's the worrisome part) - other than getting sick, she said it had no other effect on her.

My gut tells me to try her with a VERY small amount of the same stuff - perhaps even just .2 of a gram. But should we just give up? It begs two questions here:

1) Does a VERY small amount of Kratom work for ANYONE? Would that small (.2 gram) of a dose even be worth trying?
2) Does the fact that she never felt any effects other than vomiting mean we're wasting our time? IOW - wouldn't she feel SOMETHING first, or do you think the sick-making effect just overpowered her?

I'm a bit worried because we're tried now a number of times with various doses and, yes, most of it was with the mass vendor kind that was probably very crappy to begin with, but she has either felt nothing at all or gotten sick - no good feelings no matter what. Are some folks just allergic to Kratom?

[froggy33]

Some people can't metabolize kratom through the liver. They get really sick. I would never try kratom with her again. I would see a doctor and take traditional meds for pain.

[BallzDeep9]

When I came home from tennis she said after 90 minutes she got violently ill - and was ill for the next two hours. She had taken all three, not paying much attention to what I told her (but - my bad. If three made her that sick I'm fairly sure two would have done the same). But (here's the worrisome part) - other than getting sick, she said it had no other effect on her.

Are some folks just allergic to Kratom?

As Froggy noted, there are a very few people who have a Liver enzyme issue where they can't process kratom AND many other things in the Liver. That condition is RARE!! For details, Search the Knowledge Base on Reddit.

The possibly Bad News, . and NOT exactly "rare", is the FACT that our American digestive system can't handle many Foreign food items... We GET a shot, before traveling to Mexico or Third World countries - Yes ?? OK then. You're old enough I assume you've traveled / are aware of that. WHY do we "Get a shot" before eating Food in Mexico ? Because they have - common bacteria and virus in their environment, that we DON'T have here in USA. It's that simple...

Not a knock against Indonesia or anything. Just common sense, and knowledge of Medicine and Science. Ever hear of H. Pylori ? . Go ahead google that word "PYLORI" along with the word Kratom... again, Search Reddit. - Does your Micro vendor refuse to Lab Test ? then imo, Wife should carefully monitor. Is she experiencing any painful stomach cramps ? IF the answer is Yes --> she should order a specific Test for H Pylori infection. (Special NOTE: you will only find older Reports on Reddit, since r/kratom has been completely CENSORED since 2018. READ: example HERE.)

It's ALWAYS been completely obvious, I've been SHOUTING from the roof-tops for 5+ Years: Prep your Powder! ...5 minutes @ 180º. 3-Step Prep! ~ That's the SMART way, to consume Raw Kratom. People ask, Huh ? Red Bubble: WHY ? I answer - What is Kratom? And where is it From? That should be an EASY answer as to why... It's Foreign plant material. You're putting a "Foreign Object" into your body... Many people's bodies, REJECT raw plant material.

Look, Kratom was discovered, and pushed, as a "Legal High" product in head-shops... . By many people who were, ex drug addicts, and profiteers... Money Money! These folks could care LESS, about your Holistic Health, or your Obamacare... just observing the History of this business. EDIT - A little over the top

[Kelleytoons]

If she really can't process Kratom then she should have gotten sick with the other, large scale vendor Kratom doses she took that had zero effect (didn't make her sick, but didn't help, either). So I kind of doubt that is the issue. Or are we suggesting that those are the two conditions - that either you get sick or it has no effect if the liver can't process it?

And I took the Denette's Kratom batch myself this afternoon (at around 2.5 grams) and it was fine. So I doubt it was the strain being contaminated, as I'm pretty sensitive to this (I once took a strain that gave me diarrhea for two weeks).

I'm of the opinion we ought to at least try a very tiny dose of the same strain just to see. But I do appreciate any and all feedback.

[Trippyhippydippy]

My vote would be make a tea out of .5 and see how that goes..... maybe 1 gram.... it will hit right away and leave no error in digestion with capsules they could all be breaking down later etc etc

[Kelleytoons]

Yeah, we can't really go that route - the taste of Kratom alone makes her sick (and believe me, we've tried every which way you can, including flavored teas, oblates, OJ, I could go on and on and on. The only possible way is either capsules or it also is possible for her in peanut butter (that's the only thing strong enough to overcome the taste).

One thing I do want to mention to the first poster - it's tempting to say "just check with your doctor about her pain" but I'm assuming anyone who wrote that is either not very old or has never been in severe pain. There aren't ANY doctors (even the so-called pain clinics - ESPECIALLY the so-called pain clinics) that are worth a damn when it comes to alleviating chronic pain. I speak from LONG experience. The best any of them do is prescribe opioids, like our GP (he will prescribe them at the drop of a hat - which is why I took them for a decade or more and didn't get off of them until Kratom). No one should have to live with chronic debilitating pain, and yet the medical community seems helpless about it. I spent a decade trying to get out of such pain and it wasn't until Kratom that I could, so I am trying the same for my wife. (If we lived in a different state I might try cannabis, but while we supposedly have "medical" weed here the requirements are SO restrictive she'd have to have terminal cancer).

In any case, I want to make at least one or two more efforts before I give up.

[Lokey]

If you are going to try a smaller dose I wouldn't use the same strain that made her sick again. Possible it was bacteria on your hands or outside of capsules? Maybe don't take on empty stomach like you do, maybe a banana and some peanut butter or yogurt? I can imagine she's physically and psychologically repelled by the idea by now.

[brave777]

Try this before giving up, CHOCOLATE milk mix... I tried many different things and the best cover for taste will be Chocolate milk... Many of us here consume raw honey since it contains tons of enzymes and perfect for liver... first time always tell people to eat first. Plus kratom needs to be adjusted to body chemistry . I had times when new same batch failed twice but third time and after was great... If you think you gave her to much, you worry less if she had food first. or else best to start .5 if empty stomach.

[Kelleytoons]

We've tried a ton of things, but never chocolate milk. So you're saying take the chocolate powder (I used to buy Nesquik when I drank chocolate milk every day), mix it with whatever amount of Kratom, and then add the milk? Because my experience with almost anything is the Kratom never really dissolves no matter what, so you always end up with a section of crap you WILL taste (maybe even at the bottom of the glass).

I will obviously try this myself first before I suggest it to her.

[SaintsWillConquer]

We've tried a ton of things, but never chocolate milk. So you're saying take the chocolate powder (I used to buy Nesquik when I drank chocolate milk every day), mix it with whatever amount of Kratom, and then add the milk? Because my experience with almost anything is the Kratom never really dissolves no matter what, so you always end up with a section of crap you WILL taste (maybe even at the bottom of the glass).

I will obviously try this myself first before I suggest it to her.

I drink an Orange Juice mix. I use a small tumbler, put the powder in, run the tap water as hot as I can get it, add a little bit to the kratom and shake the heck out it. Add cold OJ and shake again. Then I either drink it luke warm or put in the fridge to get cold, shake again and drink. This will at least mix the powder well enough so there are no clumps in there. I've never tried the Chocolate Milk, but some people swear by it.

[IndelibleDotInk]

delta8 thc legal in all states. gummies for easy dosing size consistency. Did not work for me, but you mentioned you would otherwise try.

chocolate milk route can ease the kratom dose. i am wary of any type of capsule as they don't always dissolve properly. again, you said peanut butter.

Maybe she should just take a tylenol?

[Kelleytoons]

LOL - she's tried every med known to mankind, both OTC and prescribed. Kratom was kind of the last resort.

However - not tried any cannabis stuff. When you say "legal in all states" I thought products with THC were not in many. Our state, for example, has "medical" cannabis but you have to have a terminal illness to get it. So I don't know that just saying "legal" means you can actually acquire.

But we've definitely tried the OJ route with no success. That's why I'm skeptical about chocolate milk (also - better on empty stomach so those kinds of things tend to tamp down effects).

[IndelibleDotInk]

delta 8 thc is made from hemp and for some reason, is legal. i had never heard of that before, but is strangely true.

[SaintsWillConquer]

But we've definitely tried the OJ route with no success. That's why I'm skeptical about chocolate milk (also - better on empty stomach so those kinds of things tend to tamp down effects).

Yes, I was just using that to demonstrate how I mix the powder in hot water first. Otherwise it definitely won't mix with cold liquid. I've used thousands of capsules on an empty stomach. A liquid mix works faster - and for me - stronger than capsules or even oblate discs. I'm not saying the chocolate milk will work for you. Just sharing my experience.

[GrannyJ62]

I'm a fan of the chocolate milk idea to that or sunny d oj it was the only way I could take it at first I really love homemade frosty s with kratom and I swear I can't taste it.It probably isn't a great way to take it daily especially if wt gain or sugar s are a problem thankfully I ve grown used to the taste now it taste like pain relief but chocolate milk definitely is a winner.

[Kelleytoons]

We'll definitely try the chocolate milk - particularly for her, it could work since perhaps having an empty stomach was part of the problem.

For me capsules are just fine but I also make tinctures which I'm hesitant to have her try only because I still think (even after about three months) I haven't quite figured tinctures out just yet (I made a red which I tried last night and it might have been perfect - I literally slept knocked out for seven hours which is an absolute amazement for this old man who needs to get up three or four times every night). I'll probably still be working on tinctures at least another couple months before I can say whether I have them perfect but I find, so far at least, they work FAR better as reds than they do as whites.

[Trippyhippydippy]

We'll definitely try the chocolate milk - particularly for her, it could work since perhaps having an empty stomach was part of the problem.

For me capsules are just fine but I also make tinctures which I'm hesitant to have her try only because I still think (even after about three months) I haven't quite figured tinctures out just yet (I made a red which I tried last night and it might have been perfect - I literally slept knocked out for seven hours which is an absolute amazement for this old man who needs to get up three or four times every night). I'll probably still be working on tinctures at least another couple months before I can say whether I have them perfect but I find, so far at least, they work FAR better as reds than they do as whites.

Def be careful with tinctures tolerance can creep through fast just like extracts and you don't want that or you wont sleep at all without it. it happened to me before on enhanced kratom it sucked didnt realize extract was so bad on the tolerance.

[Kelleytoons]

The tinctures aren't that powerful - they are NOT extracts (a teaspoon is around 3-4 grams worth).

[Lokey]

The tinctures aren't that powerful - they are NOT extracts (a teaspoon is around 3-4 grams worth).

I got some Choice Botanicals green apple tincture from YLYL out of curiosity and was wondering how strong it is. I've only taken a little at a time, like a few drops , and it tastes terrible!

[Kelleytoons]

Just like Kratom, tinctures can (and are) prepared very different from place to place.

I make my own tinctures - I know exactly how strong they are. And even a teaspoon full tastes just fine - but I filter out ALL the green stuff from them. That's where the bitter taste comes from. It's a LOT more effort to do that (and likely so time intensive no seller would do it - to do it correctly requires at least six or seven filter stages and can take up to an hour or more). But it makes all the difference in the world. Even though I can't even stomach a tiny taste of the powder, the tincture doesn't bother me at all in terms of taste.

[Brad frerichs]

Just like Kratom, tinctures can (and are) prepared very different from place to place.

I make my own tinctures - I know exactly how strong they are. And even a teaspoon full tastes just fine - but I filter out ALL the green stuff from them. That's where the bitter taste comes from. It's a LOT more effort to do that (and likely so time intensive no seller would do it - to do it correctly requires at least six or seven filter stages and can take up to an hour or more). But it makes all the difference in the world. Even though I can't even stomach a tiny taste of the powder, the tincture doesn't bother me at all in terms of taste.

Something similar happened with my wife. I’d start with just 1 gram and see what happens. 5 grams seems like a lot for someone new to the leaf.

[Kelleytoons]

Yeah, I think I made a huge mistake in starting off. And, back when we started (almost a year ago) I really knew nothing about the leaf so made so many mistakes just for me.

I know a lot more now but I was *still* dumb to give her such a potent strain and so much. So she's willing to try at least one more time and we will be VERY cautious.

[brave777]

Yeah, I think I made a huge mistake in starting off. And, back when we started (almost a year ago) I really knew nothing about the leaf so made so many mistakes just for me.

I know a lot more now but I was *still* dumb to give her such a potent strain and so much. So she's willing to try at least one more time and we will be VERY cautious.

What if you do like every hour 1 gram, up to 3 hours. 3 grams should be felt even if 1 gram every hour. or even .5 gram every half hour. Yeah to new people its not going to be like for you, especially if they never tried it. I done this mistake too, gave to a friend thinking they will feel same but they ending up puking and hating kratom. Plus it makes you look bad. I learned my lesson just cause i jacked my tolerance up doesn't mean they are on the same page.

[Kelleytoons]

The problem with trying to increase doses is that my wife, like me, cannot stand the taste or smell of Kratom. That alone makes us puke. So she has to take it in capsules (and before you even try - we've tried it in dozens of ways, every way that's ever been suggested. Just no go).

So with a capsule we're already in the "wait at least an hour before effects show up". And then you're chasing your tail. You really have to know your dose pretty accurately with capsules. Which I do now, for me. But for her I've missed the mark every single time. So she says she'll try ONE more time and then... But that's okay, if that's what she decides. At this point I've almost given up with her.

[brave777]

tried even chocolate milk mix? you can get one of those nesquick drink, Drink a little bit off and trow your dose in. like 2 grams. shake it very well. drink half and put the rest in fridge, after 1 hour drink the rest... I dont know one person who didnt like chocolate kratom mix. Problem with caps is , it takes time to break down in stomach so time is not same as raw powder mix.

[Kelleytoons]

I will try chocolate milk, but my experience is that Kratom works a lot better on an empty stomach and milk might be an issue.

But, honestly, even the smell of the powder is already making us sick... so just opening up a sack to get some might ruin the whole process. Some folks are just that allergic to it (making capsules I have to basically put a clothespin on my nose).

[brave777]

i understand, best to stick with capped pills then if its really that hard to over come kratom taste. Maybe its just worst smelly batch or all kratom same or similar taste wise? i noticed some batches worse then others... When i first started in 2014 i was same, hated the taste. Its indeed over time acquired taste. Once i done a bunch doses, it became like eating cake. It takes time. Another way if you start first, hold you nose with fingers and take the biggest gulp possible, and chase the flavor away with chocolete milk, then take a breath... or what ever drink you like, or even water will work. Then repeat again until cup is empty. It worked for me when i first started, maybe could work for you guys too. good luck.

I do milk every time with my kratom mix. Your stomach might make some noise buy not so much. If you want no noise, add hot coffee half way, then kratom powder, mix it up real good, then milk on top. milk with coffee have not gave me weird stomach issues, might be different for you guys... Coffee is a perfect masker as well. But if your scared and you know it, then pills is the way.

[Kelleytoons]

It's not the strain - nearly all of the 100+ ones I have (from at least 12 different small vendors) bother me with their smell.

Pills seem to work well for me but for those times I need faster relief (more below) I take my tinctures. I've been working on them for a few months now and ALMOST have it down to where I want it.

With my tinctures less than a teaspoon full dropped into an ounce of OJ is tasteless (I could drink it straight but because of the alcohol content it's a bit more palatable mixed). The Kratom "taste" is completely filtered out (THAT took some research and doing). But I only take tinctures in dire circumstances - mostly when I wake up at night with cramps or other issues and need quick relaxing and don't want to wait 75 minutes for relief. Or sometimes during the day I get a bad headache. In either case the tincture works within 15 minutes.

But, as Ballz noted elsewhere, there is something "missing" with a tincture. It's not quite the complete experience. Perhaps it is something that gets filtered out when I filter out the leaf that's been extracted. Or maybe the powder is just better absorbed or processed differently from when it's delivered via alcohol. In any case, it's not quite the same experience. My all time-favorite, though, is to take a bit of tincture with my pills - then I get immediate (or very rapid) effects but also the fuller experience delivered. However most of the time this is way overkill (I was doing this back when my dose of Kratom was too high - 6-7 grams - and it was the only way to "get there". As soon as I lowered my dose to 2.5-3 grams the "less is more" kicked in and ever since then I've had amazing experiences without needing the tinctures).

However, curiosity makes me want to try it with chocolate milk sometimes, so I probably will at least once.

[brave777]

Surprised still have not tried chocolate milk, it covers the taste almost 100% and i hate OJ mix, for me the citrus flavor make taste stand out a lot, but for some it works. more power to them.

I believe there is a lot missing in tincture and extract itself. I recently got some extract and i feel like i wasted money. It makes me very fire talkative and stuff. to the point of hyperness and cant sit still 12+ hours, but not feeling it... strange. Maybe next time i ll add some leaf with it and see how it goes...

[Kelleytoons]

Unless you make the tincture yourself you cannot compare - I've tried extracts and they are no where near what my tinctures are. And, honestly, I feel a LOT of "extracts" are just bogus.

My tincture starts with primo powder and gets "near" the full powder experience. There's a bit missing but not much. (Part of it is you need to cook it for at least six weeks, something no private vendor could afford to do).