Here’s the best, most to the point explication of color and “strains” I’ve found

[Totomman]

https://www.saktibotanicals.com/blog/do ... rainsexist

[gumbyke1]

Technically there is no definitive process for producing greens, red, or whites because there is no standardization in the industry. With that, I would have to respectfully disagree with much of what is written in this link,

[add to descartes]

I'm surprised this link doesn't discuss indoor vs. outdoor drying processes, other than a passing reference to reds being fermented.

[BallzDeep9]

I wrote this Reply, last night, then a glitch blocked me from posting... Good to know Gumby and I agree!

Sakti Botanicals, has a Very Good website ! However ...

QUOTE A “Red Strain" is traditionally fermented before drying in full sun. But due to bacteria growth, a more common method is drying in full sunlight. When Kratom is exposed to full sunlight the main alkaloid known as Mitragynine is converted to the more potent and different alkaloid known as 7-Hydroxymitragynine.

THIS makes it "Sound Like" their Red Strains are.... More Potent ?

BUT - Is their statement really TRUE ? Then... where's the PROOF ?

IN FACT - The OLD ideas about, Drying Method = More Potent , "Reds" and 7-Ohm... has been debunked by research which found... 7-Ohm is a METABOLITE of Mitragynine. It's converted in your body - Not in full sunlight in someone's front yard, in a tiny Borneo village !! These OLD ideas, have also been debunked by at least 1 major, honest, Vendor = Herbal Salvations aka Viable Solutions - about 10 Years in business ... Viable DID post on their Reddit sub --> Reds - fermented or oxidized Red color powder, IS on average, weaker, more dirty, and LESS potent... compared to fresh Green color powder.

Which Vendor is right ?? I'd tend to believe Viable... I like Sakti, BUT this web page, is just pushing the ol' Marketing BS line about "Reds". Sorry.

[brave777]

This explains why i pull toward greens more often over reds or whites... To feel red you have to double the dose of your green.. So i do agree from my experience most if not all reds are pretty weak. Sure there are some vendors i found sweet reds like sosa and here and there from other vendors but that is very rare. It could of been enhanced leaf or by some odds contain more alkaloid spectrum.

[Totomman]

I wrote this Reply, last night, then a glitch blocked me from posting... Good to know Gumby and I agree!

Sakti Botanicals, has a Very Good website ! However ...

QUOTE A “Red Strain" is traditionally fermented before drying in full sun. But due to bacteria growth, a more common method is drying in full sunlight. When Kratom is exposed to full sunlight the main alkaloid known as Mitragynine is converted to the more potent and different alkaloid known as 7-Hydroxymitragynine.

THIS makes it "Sound Like" their Red Strains are.... More Potent ?

BUT - Is their statement really TRUE ? Then... where's the PROOF ?

IN FACT - The OLD ideas about, Drying Method = More Potent , "Reds" and 7-Ohm... has been debunked by research which found... 7-Ohm is a METABOLITE of Mitragynine. It's converted in your body - Not in full sunlight in someone's front yard, in a tiny Borneo village !! These OLD ideas, have also been debunked by at least 1 major, honest, Vendor = Herbal Salvations aka Viable Solutions - about 10 Years in business ... Viable DID post on their Reddit sub --> Reds - fermented or oxidized Red color powder, IS on average, weaker, more dirty, and LESS potent... compared to fresh Green color powder.

Which Vendor is right ?? I'd tend to believe Viable... I like Sakti, BUT this web page, is just pushing the ol' Marketing BS line about "Reds". Sorry.

Well, they claim all 3 colors are from the same batch of leaves and include labs green is “ Mitragynine Content: 1.75% (Current Batch #109)” and red is “ Mitragynine Content - 0.77% 7-Hydroxymitragynine - .004%” so unless you believe they are blatantly lying and all 3 colors don’t come from the same batch of leaves, there drying method converts MIT to 7-ohm. Even the green and white MIT is slightly different. Again, this is assuming they are honest about the harvesting method

[Totomman]

Technically there is no definitive process for producing greens, red, or whites because there is no standardization in the industry. With that, I would have to respectfully disagree with much of what is written in this link,

Can’t there be “traditional ways” of preparing something without an industry standardized?

For example, I could say there’s 3 traditional ways to cook a steak, pan sear, grill, or fry. Doesn’t mean there aren’t people that sus vide, boil, smoke, bake or use a combination of both. I think he’s keeping it simple, you go to a top tier steak house in Texas, they usually offer the two traditional methods, sear or fry. You go to LA you’re likely to find a place that half sus vide then sears on a super hot charcoal grill, or smokes for hours then sears

Btw, not arguing, you forgot more kratom than I’d know, just interpreting what I assume they meant

[add to descartes]

kratom that is actually red in color never works for me, no matter the dose. it has to be greens that are labeled as reds.

[BallzDeep9]

Well, they claim all 3 colors are from the same batch of leaves and include labs

• Green is “ Mitragynine Content: 1.75% (Current Batch #109)”
• Red is “ Mitragynine Content - 0.77%

there drying method converts MIT to 7-ohm. Even the green and white MIT is slightly different.

There you go! I think you proved my point - A Sunlight drying method, to oxidize leaf and turn the green color into brown-ish... Loses over HALF the potency !! . Yep. Kratom potency IS measured by Mitragynine % -- NOT the 7-ohm which is always a tiny fraction, too small to even feel.

Research has shown that - there isn't enough 7-hydroxymitragynine in kratom to have any effect at normal doses. - Kruegel and Grundman point out that 8g of kratom has 5x-10x less 7-OHM than needed for threshold effects in humans -- Research by both McCurdy and Kruegel shows the metabolism of mitragynine to 7-OHM via CYP3A4. Kruegel's work went on to show that most, if not all, of mitragynine's opioid-receptor-mediated effects were the result of this metabolism ... https://old.reddit.com/r/kratom/comment ... bolite_of/

[Totomman]

Well, they claim all 3 colors are from the same batch of leaves and include labs

• Green is “ Mitragynine Content: 1.75% (Current Batch #109)”
• Red is “ Mitragynine Content - 0.77%

there drying method converts MIT to 7-ohm. Even the green and white MIT is slightly different.

There you go! I think you proved my point - A Sunlight drying method, to oxidize leaf and turn the green color into brown-ish... Loses over HALF the potency !! . Yep. Kratom potency IS measured by Mitragynine % -- NOT the 7-ohm which is always a tiny fraction, too small to even feel.

Research has shown that - there isn't enough 7-hydroxymitragynine in kratom to have any effect at normal doses. - Kruegel and Grundman point out that 8g of kratom has 5x-10x less 7-OHM than needed for threshold effects in humans -- Research by both McCurdy and Kruegel shows the metabolism of mitragynine to 7-OHM via CYP3A4. Kruegel's work went on to show that most, if not all, of mitragynine's opioid-receptor-mediated effects were the result of this metabolism ... https://old.reddit.com/r/kratom/comment ... bolite_of/

With all do respect, I’m going to end the debate. You just want to “win”, so you move the goal post. YOUR EXACT words

IN FACT - The OLD ideas about, Drying Method = More Potent , "Reds" and 7-Ohm... has been debunked by research which found... 7-Ohm is a METABOLITE of Mitragynine. It's converted in your body - Not in full sunlight in someone's front yard, in a tiny Borneo village !!

Then I show labs and in fact their drying did covert mit to 7-ohm then 7-ohm doesn’t matter much, which EVERYONE here knows isn’t even almost true. That red they sell is def not 1/3 the potency of the green even though it has 1/3 the MIT
I proved that statement untrue then you said I proved your point then made another one? No! You said sunlight can’t covert MIT to 7-ohm, I’m saying labs from multiple sites on fermented reds say it does. I’m directly refuting your point
Edit: just read the study, can you please quote the part that says .004% 7-ohm doesn’t meet the threshold, don’t see it. But even if it says it, it’s wrong. I just took it last night. No way possible it’s just 1/3 as potent as the green. 0 chance. Even lucky has a fermented bently that is low MIT higer 7-ohm, not 1 person will tell u it’s 3x weaker than his green. I have heard “take more” but we’re talking 25% more, not 300%. Try and take 3x the dose of the red to = the MIT of the green and it’ll be a BAD night

Can lucky weigh in, even if I’m wrong I’d rather have real world experience input

[Kelleytoons]

I do have to say that regardless of what the stats on Mit say, Lucky's Bent is at least as powerful as his greens - it's one of the most powerful Kratoms I've ever taken.

Honestly, though, I don't think there is even ONE study on what the effects of various combinations of THINGS IN TOTAL KRATOM. IOW, we *might* be able to find studies on effects of people of certain components of Kratom, but even Mr. B has said on at least one occasion there is something in the powder that isn't in tinctures, something "missing". I suspect there is a lot of "missing" things in those analysis sheets of any Kratom. Unless and until someone actually does legitimate studies on Kratom's effects we are unlikely to be able to do any better than rely upon personal experience.

[Totomman]

I do have to say that regardless of what the stats on Mit say, Lucky's Bent is at least as powerful as his greens - it's one of the most powerful Kratoms I've ever taken.

Honestly, though, I don't think there is even ONE study on what the effects of various combinations of THINGS IN TOTAL KRATOM. IOW, we *might* be able to find studies on effects of people of certain components of Kratom, but even Mr. B has said on at least one occasion there is something in the powder that isn't in tinctures, something "missing". I suspect there is a lot of "missing" things in those analysis sheets of any Kratom. Unless and until someone actually does legitimate studies on Kratom's effects we are unlikely to be able to do any better than rely upon personal experience.

I agree, 100%. They I see it, fermentation does cause mit to convert to 7-ohm but I’m willing to buy the 7-ohm isn’t the only culprit. There may be some other alkaloids “converted” during fermentation. People that say MIT is the measure of potency don’t pay attention to labs. Imo, there’s some unknown alkaloids that determine that. Off pure potency, they’ve both been 1.4% MIT. if that were the case small batch wouldn’t even exist

[brave777]

Reds still have its place, like all the greens i tried i will never feel as chilled back as reds give me, just cause you didn't find that nicely oxidized red batch doesn't mean it don't exist. I have my stash of favorite reds. I just feel people will spend way more money like i use to to find them batches. Like some KTC https://www.kratomtradingco.com/?mc_cid ... cffcc4cfa6 batches are well worth over paying instead of having tons of junk crap reds. I still use KTC as my main red source. I dont know why but i am always rock hard chilling back and puffin on my joints. There are many other vendors but some reason i am stuck on KTC. All other vendors are ok reds, just not ass potent as SOSA was or KTC. For some days if i want extra clean mild chill, i would do TFH reds... depends on a mood, i think once a person does a full year kratom use, is enough to understand what kind of batches you like and dont.

[BallzDeep9]

They I see it, fermentation does cause mit to convert to 7-ohm but I’m willing to buy the 7-ohm isn’t the only culprit. There may be some other alkaloids “converted” during fermentation. People that say MIT is the measure of potency don’t pay attention to labs. Imo, there’s some unknown alkaloids that determine that. Off pure potency, they’ve both been 1.4% MIT. if that were the case small batch wouldn’t even exist

OK... Trying to follow your Logic here. All we're doing is, offering a critique of this vendor's Web Page . Generally speaking, the Kratom business is chock full of BS - I didn't carefully analyze this vendor's Labs... Did anyone actually buy the Red strain in question ? Is the color "Red" or brownish - oxidized - Or is the color Green. Most people around here prefer "Green Reds" lol... Just pointing out, what seems like, BS here if they're claiming Mitra = 0.77% then I wouldn't buy it!! But who knows ? That's weak kratom but maybe they pumped up the % somehow ? I mentioned Viable earlier, they DO add extra Mitra to weak batches, they fully admit that. Honest vendor. I'm not saying Sakti is otherwise, only that it does happen. Yes, there are unknowns still - to be explored - However the old, "Reds more potent" thing is a Myth... people read on the Internet. Old myths die slowly.

The "Royal Bent" strains are interesting - I think we can admit, funky brown dark oxidized Leaf is... weaker. . But, it's been sold by a few vendors, for years... And some people are fans of "Bents". Some people swear by 'em... Hey I've got some CLASSIC Bents, vintage, Red Bali from VLNT - the Indonesian famous for his Bents.. And we're just now, getting Lab Tested kratom from a few vendors - But maybe Labs do not always explain everything ? Not in this business!

[Totomman]

They I see it, fermentation does cause mit to convert to 7-ohm but I’m willing to buy the 7-ohm isn’t the only culprit. There may be some other alkaloids “converted” during fermentation. People that say MIT is the measure of potency don’t pay attention to labs. Imo, there’s some unknown alkaloids that determine that. Off pure potency, they’ve both been 1.4% MIT. if that were the case small batch wouldn’t even exist

OK... Trying to follow your Logic here. All we're doing is, offering a critique of this vendor's Web Page . Generally speaking, the Kratom business is chock full of BS - I didn't carefully analyze this vendor's Labs... Did anyone actually buy the Red strain in question ? Is the color "Red" or brownish - oxidized - Or is the color Green. Most people around here prefer "Green Reds" lol... Just pointing out, what seems like, BS here if they're claiming Mitra = 0.77% then I wouldn't buy it!! But who knows ? That's weak kratom but maybe they pumped up the % somehow ? I mentioned Viable earlier, they DO add extra Mitra to weak batches, they fully admit that. Honest vendor. I'm not saying Sakti is otherwise, only that it does happen. Yes, there are unknowns still - to be explored - However the old, "Reds more potent" thing is a Myth... people read on the Internet. Old myths die slowly.

The "Royal Bent" strains are interesting - I think we can admit, funky brown dark oxidized Leaf is... weaker. . But, it's been sold by a few vendors, for years... And some people are fans of "Bents". Some people swear by 'em... Hey I've got some CLASSIC Bents, vintage, Red Bali from VLNT - the Indonesian famous for his Bents.. And we're just now, getting Lab Tested kratom from a few vendors - But maybe Labs do not always explain everything ? Not in this business!

I ordered it, it’s dark red and as me and the other poster wrote, luckys royal bent is one of their most potent blends